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Intercity journey times

FGWHST43009

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What were typical journey times for the main services on IC routes in BR days? In particular the East Coast, Great Western and Cross Country. Also, what were journey times on Virgin Cross Country services at various points? If you know any others that's fine.
 
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Ken H

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What were typical journey times for the main services on IC routes in BR days? In particular the East Coast, Great Western and Cross Country. Also, what were journey times on Virgin Cross Country services at various points? If you know any others that's fine.
When? If you look at East Coat in 1960 it was a LOT slower. Then they got the earth movers out and got rid of speed restrictions. they introduced Deltics, and then the Deltic + 8 fast services. Then came HST with a step change in speeds and journey times.
Look on TimetableWorld.com - Lots of old rail timetables to read for free on a rainy day!
 

FGWHST43009

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Which period of BR are you referring to?

At least for the period 1948-65 (and some later years) timetables are freely accessible on www.timetableworld.com.
Probably around mid/late 80s, early 90s

What were typical journey times for the main services on IC routes in the 1980s and 1990s? In particular the East Coast, Great Western and Cross Country. Also, what were journey times on Virgin Cross Country services at various points? If you know any others that's fine.
 
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hexagon789

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Probably around mid/late 80s, early 90s
Frequencies generally less, so many trains made more stops, but there were some headline limited stop services, some of which were faster.

XC was slower, as the service ran a mixed 47/86 Mk2/HST fleet and there was much less 125mph running then - Derby to Birmingham was only 90mph.

ECML, under HSTs - Flying Scotsman was 4h30 in 1984, 4h23 in 1988; after electrification the Scottish Pullmans took 3h59 with two stops, the Flying Scotsman was slightly over 4hrs, most other services were about 4h25+.

WCML, the Royal Scot was 4h45 to Glasgow by the early 90s.

GWML, the Cornish Riviera was down to 4h45 to Penzance at one point in the early 90s but that didn't last especially long.
 

30907

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Frequencies generally less, so many trains made more stops, but there were some headline limited stop services, some of which were faster.

XC was slower, as the service ran a mixed 47/86 Mk2/HST fleet and there was much less 125mph running then - Derby to Birmingham was only 90mph.
The first HST timetable had a couple of Birmingham-Plymouths calling only at Temple Meads and Exeter in 3hr 20.
 

jamesr

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GWML, the Cornish Riviera was down to 4h45 to Penzance at one point in the early 90s but that didn't last especially long.
Buried very deep away in childhood memories (and therefore quite possibly wrong) was a Summer Saturday peak dated service which I think was an attempt to run Paddington to Penzance in 4hr 30, calling only at Plymouth, Truro, Hayle and St Erth. 1030 from Paddington, 1500 into Penzance if my memory is correct.

It would have been sometime between 1989 and 1993 and fell at the beginning of a busy hour of arrivals my father would take me to watch sitting on the wall at Penzance station.

From memory, it was invariably late, and was amended in the following timetable to be five minutes slower, and removed a year later.

The Up Golden Hind was pretty consistently around 4hr 40m to Paddington (0521 out, 1000 arrival from memory)

All of these memories might be the false memories of a ten year old timetable fanatic, so happy to be corrected!
 

hexagon789

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Buried very deep away in childhood memories (and therefore quite possibly wrong) was a Summer Saturday peak dated service which I think was an attempt to run Paddington to Penzance in 4hr 30, calling only at Plymouth, Truro, Hayle and St Erth. 1030 from Paddington, 1500 into Penzance if my memory is correct.

It would have been sometime between 1989 and 1993 and fell at the beginning of a busy hour of arrivals my father would take me to watch sitting on the wall at Penzance station.

From memory, it was invariably late, and was amended in the following timetable to be five minutes slower, and removed a year later.

The Up Golden Hind was pretty consistently around 4hr 40m to Paddington (0521 out, 1000 arrival from memory)

All of these memories might be the false memories of a ten year old timetable fanatic, so happy to be corrected!
I'll recheck the timetables I do have, but I've gaps in the 1990s in my collection. I do have a full set for the 1980s though.
 

mike57

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I have used the ECML since the mid 60s. My perception is that journey times were improved slowly during the 60s and 70s, then a step change when HSTs came in, further improved when the Selby diversion opened. Since then headline services haven't improved much and in some cases are actually slower by a few minutes, e.g London - Leeds. Frequencies have improved however. To be honest I think they have squeezed as much as they can out of the ECML, and without major work/expenditure there is no scope for further improvements in journey times.
 

Taunton

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It is a significant change that onetime nonstops have picked up a range of intermediate stops, and are thus no faster (and occasionally a bit slower) than long ago, for individual departures. This not only improves service to intermediate points, and indeed between them, but also is allied with much enhanced frequency. I notice that when travelling on business trips from London to much of the country, I no longer time meetings to individual return trips, but just set off home when adequately finished, much as I do when travelling by car. This even applies to points as far away as Newcastle or Carlisle (I go to both). It has actually made the service much more useful than knocking 15 minutes off the time of the occasional prestige nonstop. I also sometimes go to Doncaster, where far more services now stop than before. That has completely surpassed going by car.

The various prestige highest speed services of past times, whether Flying Scotsman or Cornish Riviera, typically did late morning departures, and were your principal occupation of the day. Likewise the big long-haul cross-country operations like the Liverpool-Plymouth. The world has moved on; I can't recall the last late morning long distance train I took, but there have been plenty at 0730 or 1830. Edinburgh to Taunton, of my youthful times, on a specific daily through service to Paignton introduced in 1973, which I amused the Edinburgh booking clerk by calling it the "Torbay Express", is now hourly all day.

The London to Bristol service, with the various routes that merge in with it along the way, has essentially become an outer suburban operation. When the service was reduced after lockdown, it was the recently-introduced nonstop trains that didn't come back.
 
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Alfonso

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22 Jul 2017
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How many HSTs were there that didn't stop at Reading, Didcot or Swindon?
From memory, in the late 80s the Corniah Riviera was non stop from London to Exeter and there were a couple of non stop london to Bristol parkway services with names something like the red dragon executive. Completely incompatible with clockface timetable, and saved very little time but made yiu feel yiu were kn something a bit special I suppose
 

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