Interference with Train Doors - What Would You Do ?

[Zamracene749]

You don't seriously believe that, do you...?

Sadly, from more than one personal experience yes. Here's one.

I'll tell this a quickly as i can but a few years back, my partner was alone in the house one afternoon with our baby when she heard a commotion outside.
The source was a couple of teenage girls and an older instructor on horseback, one of whom was whipping ten bells out of their hesitant and scared mount. As a rider/ horse lover herself she made the mistake of telling them to stop hitting the animal.
The result?

The older woman dismounted and attacked my partner, then followed her INTO our house where a further scuffle took place. Hallway furniture got broken and my partner had clumps of hair pulled out. The police were called.

The outcome?

Plod at the scene advised against pressing charges- "There were three of them, and they say that your partner attacked them and it's their word against your partner's. It's possible that if it goes to court your partner will be charged with assault, without any witnesses of her own she may well get convicted. "

So here's a tip- if you fancy walking into someone elses home and attacking them, do it when they are alone and take some friendly witnesses along to say that you didn't start it. The police will be more than happy to brush it all under whats left of their hallway table.

PS- I'm not blaming the cops here- it's just that their hands are tied by the rules and my experience of them (from both sides) is that they are simply concerned with laws- not justice or right and wrong. Our busy courts are little better.

Anyway apologies for running off topic, lets get back to trains, a generally happier subject

 

[the sniper]

So here's a tip- if you fancy walking into someone elses home and attacking them, do it when they are alone and take some friendly witnesses along to say that you didn't start it. The police will be more than happy to brush it all under whats left of their hallway table.

The problem is with a case like this, you know your wife and you'll know that she didn't physically attack them first, but just taking a total outsider view on the events as you've given them (like a jury obviously would), you could see the incident in a totally different way.

If I'm honest, I think the Police gave you good advice, as in court it'd be pretty easy to make your wife out to be the problematic one unfortunately, especially as she was only protecting a horse from someone that may have not known that they doing anything wrong, as they were under instruction learning to ride. The lawyer of the other party would make it clear that the instructor is a professional who knows what they or doing (whether they did or didn't) and they'd make your wife out to be an irrational, interfering animal lover. They'd then make your wife out to be the aggressor and they'd say she started the fight.

Sorry if I come across harsh, I'm just pointing out how an outsider might view your case in court, be that the right or wrong view.

 

[Zamracene749]

That was almost exactly as the police put it sniper!

Agree with you that is was the best advice, it was simply frustrating at the time knowing that someone had been able to enter our home and get away with violence.

Going back to the OP, apart from the risk of violence perhaps no action was the best response anyway- after all the whole idea of mucking about with the doors will have been to annoy the passengers/staff. If they get no fun from it maybe they won't do it again. (i'll just take my wishful thinking cap back off now...)

 

[Dolive22]

defitzi, based on the rules of engagement I was given by my black belt, who trained with a lot of police officers at his club*, you would have no trouble with what you did.

*Police unarmed combat training is apparently pretty lousy in the UK.

 

[daikilo]

Last night I was travelling on a local suburban service in Birmingham.

We arrived at the station I was getting off at, and as I was walking through the car park, which is alongside the platform, the train started off and then suddenly stopped.

Two large "youths" appeared out of the gloom along the platform from the front of the train, and by the occurrence and a comment passed by one of them to his friend they had obviously either forced the doors or operated the emergency door release.

The whole thing was being treated as a big joke, but in actual fact it resulted in some delays whilst the Guard then had to go to the front of the train and reset everything before the train could move.

It was clear that this was not the first time and both youths were treating the whole thing as fun and basically didn't give a toss about any potential damage or inconvenience to any others.

Now I was very tempted to challenge them and call the BT Police, however one somewhat old man these days against two large youths who clearly hold little if any regard for others did rather change the dynamics of the situation.

To my great pesonal embarrassment and annoyance as a Railwayman, I did not feel that I could become involved as the risk to my personal safety was lower than 50%. I also wondered if :-
(a) The TOC would have been concerned enought to take action for Criminal Damage or interference with the doors which is a Railway Byelaw offence

(b) The BT Police would have taken effective action

I have to admit that I was very annoyed at what I perceived to be the fact that any intervention by myself or indeed the Guard would probably have resulted in some sort of violent response by people who basically didn't give a damn about anyone else.

I am still in many ways angry and ashamed that I did not challenge them, but in other ways I think it was for the best that I didn't bearing in mind another topic that is currently running.

Any views ?

I started working for BR nearly 40 years ago. My role was to be a railwayman. We reported events and took actions through railway channels.

I now have a personal mobile phone with a camera and sound capture.

Using the above criteria, if I had been in yr shoes and able to photograph the inidviduals concerned without putting my future in danger (my future is my life, my family, then my job) I probably would have done so, and in a safe place would later have sent the photos and details to my superiors.

Is tampering with train doors a dangerous offence? No, thanks to the built-in systemwide interlocks on train equipment, signals etc. all of which are designed to prevent accidnets and not to take into account deliberate misuse.

Is wilfull disruption of a public service reprehensible: definitely.

Old Timer, when I was recruited I was not asked to be a hero, I was asked to be a railwayman and to encourage people to travel by rail. We had operational and ethical standards and we upheld them, sometimes to our advantage.

Incorrect use of door opening mechanisms was then operationally near impossible and I never ever heard of an incident (it was my every day job).

It is now possible to initiate door opening in the interest of theoretical but documented emergency scenarios.

As far as I am aware, misuse of such features outside those scenarios is reprehensible and I am sure my superiors would have agreed.

I encourage everyone to document and report deliberate acts against normal railway operations in a way that you consider does not put yr life at danger.

d

 

[Ivo]

Referring to the Merseyrail case, the defence suggests that "Everyone has done it at some time". I do not believe this at all. I am sure that many on this forum have never put their feet on seats. I will admit that I have... BUT, the only time I have ever done it, I was feeling ill, to the point that I would have told the conductor had there been one and I was old enough to represent myself (this was when the 357s were new and may have been on a 317, I'm not sure). I felt so bad that I actually laid down on a three-person seat, and ultimately threw up just as my mother and I alighted at Thorpe Bay. I know, I apologise for making anyone feel the same way. But that is the only time I have ever put my feet on seats, thus ruining said argument. Anyone would be left off in that case.