Introducing RailUK Tickets - support the forum when booking your rail tickets!

[Egg Centric]

A slightly curious one (screenshot shows "To prevent abuse we are unable to fulfill your journey planning request")

Am at a Premier Inn on their Wi-Fi initially but switched to 4g and still the same. Just searching for a single Doncaster - Durham, nothing fruity...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 May 2024 ==

(Worked fine in Incognito though!)

 

[BRX]

I got that the other day too.

 

[Adam Williams]

That happens if your ReCAPTCHA score is too low and it thinks you're acting more like a bot than a human. Refreshing and trying it again is a good bet, logging into a Google account can help.

Unfortunately lots of people try to write scripts to scrape the site and grab split results en masse - and false positives are kinda inevitable from this sort of protection.

 

[Gaelan]

That happens if your ReCAPTCHA score is too low and it thinks you're acting more like a bot than a human. Refreshing and trying it again is a good bet, logging into a Google account can help.

Unfortunately lots of people try to write scripts to scrape the site and grab split results en masse - and false positives are kinda inevitable from this sort of protection.

Would it be possible to at least fall back to a checkbox-style captcha if the "invisible" one fails?

 

[Adam Williams]

Would it be possible to at least fall back to a checkbox-style captcha if the "invisible" one fails?

It's indeed on the backlog

Whether we'll fall back to visual ReCAPTCHA or some other CAPTCHA is up for debate. My preference would also be to do something to make it easier for customers who regularly purchase tickets and are logged into their account as well, but that's a bit further out.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I'm travelling from London to Grantham this Saturday, coming back the same day, and the site doesn't seem to be showing what I think is the cheapest split-ticket option. As far as I can tell from brfares.com, I should be able to do it by buying a super-offpeak day return London-Peterborough (£24.40) and an off-peak day return Peterborough-Grantham (£20.80), total £45.20. But if I select 'best value' I get shown only the London-Grantham off-peak return for £65.80, or the £53.50 Hull Trains only ticket.

 

[Haywain]

I'm travelling from London to Grantham this Saturday, coming back the same day, and the site doesn't seem to be showing what I think is the cheapest split-ticket option. As far as I can tell from brfares.com, I should be able to do it by buying a super-offpeak day return London-Peterborough (£24.40) and an off-peak day return Peterborough-Grantham (£20.80), total £45.20. But if I select 'best value' I get shown only the London-Grantham off-peak return for £65.80, or the £53.50 Hull Trains only ticket.

The London to Peterborough fare is restricted to Great Northern and Thameslink services and there appear to be very few of them running to Peterborough this Saturday. Therefore journey planners will find it very difficult to offer this fare.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The London to Peterborough fare is restricted to Great Northern and Thameslink services and there appear to be very few of them running to Peterborough this Saturday. Therefore journey planners will find it very difficult to offer this fare.

Ah yes, I'd missed that restriction. Thanks, that explains that.

 

[swaldman]

I'm trying to buy a return from Thurso to Glasgow. Naturally my first thought was to use the forum-supporting site, especially as they have my favourite UI.

But it seems that they will no longer post tickets to customers?
Trainsplit apparently can't sell e-tickets for the route.
Thurso station does not have ticket machines, and the ticket office is not open at the times that I will be passing through. So I can't collect a ticket on site. (and since I live in Orkney, I can't just pop in at another time)

So as far as I can see, I can't use trainsplit / tickets.railforums to buy this ticket.

Am I missing something? Or do I have to go elsewhere?
Thanks.

 

[Adam Williams]

it seems that they will no longer post tickets to customers

I don't think Raileasy have offered postal fulfilment for years. There are a few edge cases where this genuinely is an inconvenience, but they're such a minority nowadays that the cost of offering it would be entirely uneconomical.

Trainsplit apparently can't sell e-tickets for the route

I suspect "ScotRail won't permit E-Tickets to be sold" is a much more accurate statement!

 

[MrJeeves]

The Chiltern site used to post tickets 1st class for free, but I don't know if they charge for that now.

You are effectively stuck in this situation, but as there's no collection facilities you may have luck with on board staff issuing them (I've seen them happily do it on other routes), but at that point you may as well buy on board if you're not picking advances, and you'd technically not be entitled to collect on board.

 

[swaldman]

I don't think Raileasy have offered postal fulfilment for years. There are a few edge cases where this genuinely is an inconvenience, but they're such a minority nowadays that the cost of offering it would be entirely uneconomical.



I suspect "ScotRail won't permit E-Tickets to be sold" is a much more accurate statement!

That's fair enough in both cases (Scotrail presumably prefer their own, different, e-ticket system that requires their app....).
But also sadly means that I can't use trainsplit, as I have no way to receive the tickets

Thanks for the info.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 May 2024 ==

The Chiltern site used to post tickets 1st class for free, but I don't know if they charge for that now.

You are effectively stuck in this situation, but as there's no collection facilities you may have luck with on board staff issuing them (I've seen them happily do it on other routes), but at that point you may as well buy on board if you're not picking advances, and you'd technically not be entitled to collect on board.

I could buy on board for the Thurso <> Inverness leg, and people often do, and presumably I could also buy an Anytime ticket all the way to Glasgow (ouch), but I wouldn't like to try to explain a set of four split tickets to the conductor and expect them to oblige

 

[Adam Williams]

Scotrail presumably prefer their own, different, e-ticket system that requires their app....

Indeed. Which is entirely security theatre, of course. The barcodes are exactly the same as any other type06 barcode in terms of their security model.

A very frustrating state of affairs, but I'm not going to hold my breath in anticipation that it'll change anytime soon.

 

[swaldman]

Those in this thread who work on trainsplit might be gratified to know that your site finds tickets about 30% cheaper for my journey than thetrainline's one does, even when the latter has its split option turned on.

More surprisingly, what trainsplit considers to be the price *without* splits, against which the saving is compared, is still about 20% cheaper....

 

[Mike395]

Those in this thread who work on trainsplit might be gratified to know that your site finds tickets about 30% cheaper for my journey than thetrainline's one does, even when the latter has its split option turned on.

More surprisingly, what trainsplit considers to be the price *without* splits, against which the saving is compared, is still about 20% cheaper....

That's good to hear! Hopefully ScotRail will pleasantly surprise us and embrace e-tickets before too long....

 

[Wallsendmag]

Indeed. Which is entirely security theatre, of course. The barcodes are exactly the same as any other type06 barcode in terms of their security model.

A very frustrating state of affairs, but I'm not going to hold my breath in anticipation that it'll change anytime soon.

Yet there is a TVM at Glasgow Central issuing eTickets

 

[bubieyehyeh]

I've noticed something odd on the site, I want to buy a horsham to st pancras journey (HRH -> STP). I know its often cheaper to split at three bridges.
The site shows the split at three bridges but says the 2nd ticket must be a paper ticket, but 1st can be smart ticket.

However if I search for the splits seperately it shows both legs can be smart ticketed.

Edit:
After checking on southerns site, it seems the 2nd leg must be paper.
Just tried again and now the 2nd leg on the site says it only available on paper, so must have been a glitch.

So why does the site do this?

Is it because the 2nd leg would not have a entry scan, if it was checked?

However I didn't think a smart ticket without a entry scan was invalid, since I often use a smart ticket from a unbarriered station.

 

[mangyiscute]

Is it because the 2nd leg would have a entry scan, if it was checked?

However I didn't think a smart ticket without a entry scan was invalid, since I often use a smart ticket from a unbarriered station.

E tickets don't need to be scanned in, ignore anything/anyone who has told you otherwise.
There are some tickets that need to be validated (think a flexi season ticket) but they are fairly niche.

 

[OscarH]

I've noticed something odd on the site, I want to buy a horsham to st pancras journey (HRH -> STP). I know its often cheaper to split at three bridges.
The site shows the split at three bridges but says the 2nd ticket must be a paper ticket, but 1st can be smart ticket.

However if I search for the splits seperately it shows both legs can be smart ticketed.

So why does the site do this?

Is it because the 2nd leg would not have a entry scan, if it was checked?

However I didn't think a smart ticket without a entry scan was invalid, since I often use a smart ticket from a unbarriered station.

I'll have a proper look tomorrow.

At a guess off the top of my head that might be wrong, it can be random with how it picks the duplicate fares to STP specifically over the London Thameslink ones (as they're the same price etc). It's possible only the London Thameslink fare is eTicketable, and the STP one isn't, the split uses the latter and the individual search the former.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

I'll have a proper look tomorrow.

At a guess off the top of my head that might be wrong, it can be random with how it picks the duplicate fares to STP specifically over the London Thameslink ones (as they're the same price etc). It's possible only the London Thameslink fare is eTicketable, and the STP one isn't, the split uses the latter and the individual search the former.

I just tried again and for tbd-stp leg only and it now says paper only.
I checked on southerns site and they say the tbd-stp leg must be paper.

So I'm not sure how I got it to show eticket earlier.

Whats the definition of stations that match a destination of london thameslink, I hadn't realised that was a destination

 

[OscarH]

I just tried again and for tbd-stp leg only and it now says paper only.
I checked on southerns site and they say the tbd-stp leg must be paper.

So I'm not sure how I got it to show eticket earlier.

Whats the definition of stations that match a destination of london thameslink, I hadn't realised that was a destination

London Thameslink is a group which basically allows you to travel further across the core than London Terminals tickets do. This NRE page has a useful diagram of Terminals vs Thameslink: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-in-london/

Because of historically poor support on retail sites for the London Thameslink group (it's... complicated), GTR decided to duplicate a lot of fares, so you get identical fares to London Thameslink and St Pancras, Farringdon etc individually.

Because of how eTicket fulfilment is whitelisted for routes, it leads to loads of inconsistencies like this. You can see from the screenshot attached there's effectively 2 duplicate fares, one is eTicketable and one isn't. On any TrainSplit based site (couldn't say for Southern) it will likely randomly pick between the two, so sometimes it will be eTicketable and sometimes not if you refresh the page. Unfortunately this isn't something we can fix any time soon.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

London Thameslink is a group which basically allows you to travel further across the core than London Terminals tickets do. This NRE page has a useful diagram of Terminals vs Thameslink: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-in-london/

Because of historically poor support on retail sites for the London Thameslink group (it's... complicated), GTR decided to duplicate a lot of fares, so you get identical fares to London Thameslink and St Pancras, Farringdon etc individually.

Because of how eTicket fulfilment is whitelisted for routes, it leads to loads of inconsistencies like this. You can see from the screenshot attached there's effectively 2 duplicate fares, one is eTicketable and one isn't. On any TrainSplit based site (couldn't say for Southern) it will likely randomly pick between the two, so sometimes it will be eTicketable and sometimes not if you refresh the page. Unfortunately this isn't something we can fix any time soon.

Thanks for explaining the complexity.

The whether a eTicket is available is really is a mess, I have found ones where a return between two station is available as a eticket, but a single isn't, so not really a surprize when they only enable some of the tickets between two stations.

On southerns own website it doesn't seem to offer the london thameslink ticket for that journey, however if you select london thameslink as a destination it implies it only valid to London Bridge, so seems even GTR don't understand their own tickets!

 

[Norfolk25]

I bought tickets from your website - ref N28G6CR2 and HFRT5T58 - to be collected from Kings Lynn station, KLN.

I Paid by Mastercard.

I put the same card in the machine this morning to collect the tickets and got the message: 'You cannot use this card'

Luckily the ticket office was open and there was no queue, so they printed them out for me.

There is nothing wrong with my card - I used it to buy several things in town afterwards.

Why can't I use my card in the ticket machine?

 

[OscarH]

I bought tickets from your website - ref N28G6CR2 and HFRT5T58 - to be collected from Kings Lynn station, KLN.

I Paid by Mastercard.

I put the same card in the machine this morning to collect the tickets and got the message: 'You cannot use this card'

Luckily the ticket office was open and there was no queue, so they printed them out for me.

There is nothing wrong with my card - I used it to buy several things in town afterwards.

Why can't I use my card in the ticket machine?

Did the machine immediately say "please remove your card" very quickly after you inserted it? I suspect this is the usual misleading S&B machine error

 

[mangyiscute]

Yeah i get that issue all the time on GWR machines, you just have to try it again, and wait for an attempt where it actually takes the time to read the card, and doesn't just ask for the card to be removed instantly.
Putting the card in quite forcefully and holding it in the slot can also sometimes help, cause the machines appear to struggle to read the card sometimes.

 

[ainsworth74]

I've found rubbing the chip can help as well.

 

[Adam Williams]

Hopefully they'll all support contactless with a bit of time.

Or even better, check if the booking needs a card first!

 

[alistairlees]

Earlier on today I tried to collect some tickets from Cannon Street (S&B machines I think). Initially I got a message saying (something like) "This card is not valid for collection", after typing in the CTR. I took the card out, reinserted it, and collected the tickets without any issue.

I can understand why customers would think there was a a problem with the retailer or the card, when the issue was with the TVM or the connectivity to it.

 

[OscarH]

Earlier on today I tried to collect some tickets from Cannon Street (S&B machines I think). Initially I got a message saying (something like) "This card is not valid for collection", after typing in the CTR. I took the card out, reinserted it, and collected the tickets without any issue.

I can understand why customers would think there was a a problem with the retailer or the card, when the issue was with the TVM or the connectivity to it.

Yeah, it's really atrocious that it let's you enter the CTR when it knows it didn't read the card

 

[andythebrave]

This probably a stupid question but I've added some journeys to basket (all Avanti) and can view the seats that have been allocated.
Is there a way to change the seats before paying because I can't for the life of me find one?
Thanks in advance.