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Is Crossrail too fast?

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Andrewlong

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I've written several times on this forum that there will be huge howling coming from the Reading direction about how SLOW Crossrail is from their perspective (conveniently forgetting it was never meant for them in the first place) and political agitation to get semi-fast services to Paddington. Just mark my words!:)

Won't there be services running from Oxford and Newbury to Paddington? Surely some of these will be semi fast ie stop at Slough or Maidenhead. As a Reading commuter I woukdnt bother with Crossrail until geting to Paddington if Crossrail simply offers a stopping service with overground style seats.
 
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swt_passenger

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The 'interventions' you mention are all between Stockley Bridge Junction and Paddington - what will probably be needed are more platforms at Slough and room to pass slower trains between Twyford and points east.

There are alterations at Maidenhead and between there and Stockley as well though? The new Maidenhead layout which was designed for a 4 tph turn back also provides an overtaking facility for the reliefs. There is also the fifth track through Iver and West Drayton.
 

coppercapped

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It is true that Crossrail will not benefit Reading very much for journeys into London, however (especially with Heathrow's western access, possibly served by Crossrail trains) there is scope for there is to be a lot of people wanting to travel to/from Reading on Crossrail.

Reading is quite an influential town with some quite significant employers. Also as Reading is quite a major hub to get to other places there will be demand from people traveling to other destinations. Yes interchanges may not be significant, but currently off peak from many stations between London and Reading it could be easier to go into Paddington and then back out again. With Crossrail, even if there's not much in it (assuming a fast change at Paddington), it'll be fairly attractive.

Crossrail trains arriving and departing Reading will not be full and standing however nor will they be deserted.

I absolutely agree with your last point, but my impression is that there is still a general misunderstanding of the impact that Crossrail will make to travellers in the area between Reading and London.

In the first instance the Crossrail trains will simply replace what are now the XX.18 and XX.48 services to London. No extra trains are planned.

The western terminus for Crossrail was moved from Maidenhead to Reading for operational reasons - it avoided some works at Maidenhead and the construction of a west-facing bay at Slough which would otherwise have been necessary for a Reading-Slough shuttle to serve Twyford. The cost of avoiding these works was the purchase of one more train set.

The Crossrail trains will make little difference to the travel patterns between Reading and Slough - the frequency of the local trains to Reading will not change although Maidenhead will benefit from a doubling in frequency towards London. Travel times will be marginally reduced.

The main benefit of Crossrail will be for travellers between Slough and London where the increased frequency and, for many but not for all, the avoidance of the change at Paddington will lead to time savings and a more convenient journey.

Looking at the timetable I am not sure that your suggestion that travellers in the areas closer to London would find it quicker to get to Reading by travelling via Paddington stands up to analysis. At the moment it takes between 10 and 13 minutes to get from Ealing Broadway to Paddington - but these trains generally terminate in the high numbered platforms so an interchange time of at least 5 minutes would be needed to get to a west-bound express. Add the 25 minutes to get to Reading on an HST and one is talking about a 40 or 45 minute journey. Taking a train direct from Ealing Broadway to Reading, on the current service, takes 39 minutes so any time saving made by travelling via Paddington is marginal at best but the cost and hassle factor will be higher.

Crossrail will reduce journey times in both directions and the Class 800s should get the Paddington-Reading time back to where it was when the HSTs were new, but there will still be a time and cost penalty if one travels from any of the inner suburban stations via Paddington.

The pattern of services to serve the Western Rail Access to Heathrow is by no means fixed. In the first instance it may not be Crossrail which runs it - Heathrow Express has shown an interest and there have also been suggestions that some (possibly new) services from Oxford are routed through Heathrow. These latter could be linked to services on the to-be-reopened East-West line to Bletchley. At the moment everything is too vague to be able to make any comments.
 
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The Ham

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I absolutely agree with your last point, but my impression is that there is still a general misunderstanding of the impact that Crossrail will make to travellers in the area between Reading and London.

In the first instance the Crossrail trains will simply replace what are now the XX.18 and XX.48 services to London. No extra trains are planned.

No extra trains are planned at present, however following on from the Western approach to Heathrow there is some logic in extending at least some Heathrow services to continue onto Reading.
 

coppercapped

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No extra trains are planned at present, however following on from the Western approach to Heathrow there is some logic in extending at least some Heathrow services to continue onto Reading.

Certainly. The question then to be answered is 'What should be the frequency of the service?'

At the moment the Railair coaches provide a 20 minute interval during the day, each coach can seat some 50 or 60 people but except during the peaks they are often less than half full. That is, there is a demand currently for some 50 to 70 passenger per hour off-peak.

A replacement train service should offer at least as good a frequency to be attractive to air passengers, but of course the capacity of a train is much higher. So where do the extra passengers come from?
 

The Ham

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Certainly. The question then to be answered is 'What should be the frequency of the service?'

At the moment the Railair coaches provide a 20 minute interval during the day, each coach can seat some 50 or 60 people but except during the peaks they are often less than half full. That is, there is a demand currently for some 50 to 70 passenger per hour off-peak.

A replacement train service should offer at least as good a frequency to be attractive to air passengers, but of course the capacity of a train is much higher. So where do the extra passengers come from?

To a certain extent it doesn't matter how many people would use the service to get from Reading to Heathrow it's more to do with the number of people who would use the service in total. For instance if each station between Reading and Heathrow added an extra 5 passengers that would be an extra 25 passengers per hour (ignoring any extra passengers from the branch lines).

Then you have places like Slough, which has a lot of people who work at the airport, could increase numbers quite a bit more.

Also there are quite a few people who would use a rail only service who wouldn't use a rail and coach service, which would also increase usage.

You may also attract new passengers who may opt to stay in a hotel on the route (say Maidenhead) and then catch the train to the airport for an early flight rather than staying closer to the airport.

Another possible area for extra passengers is you may find people are dropped off by friends, family or taxi at a station not that far from the M4 to use the train rather than go all the way along the M4 to drop them at the terminal. M4 to Maidenhead station is about 10 minutes plus a journey of about 25 minutes on the train. Although this would be longer than the drive (circa 25 minutes in good traffic) to the airport direct, it is less time for the driver (20 minutes vs 50 minutes, so less of an inconvenience for them) and almost certainly cheaper than a taxi. Of course it could also be much quicker if there is traffic.
 

matt_world2004

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Then you have places like Slough, which has a lot of people who work at the airport, could increase numbers quite a bit more.

.

If you work at the airport you are not going to pay the crazy money that Heathrow charge for tickets going there.
 

cle

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Doesn't Crossrail also have the option to upgrade to 30tph? Surely not all of those would terminate at OOC or go up the WCML.... plus before that there is the idea of extending the Paddington/OOC terminators. West Drayton and Slough could be options - and Heathrow T4 is underserved too.

And, even if WRAtH is a Paddington terminator off to Southampton or Bedford - there will still be a lot more traffic and growth on the line.

I definitely see the Thames Valley route taking off with Crossrail, and frequencies following (with conversations about freight).
 

coppercapped

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They get airside passes for airside working. I do not know if that would be valid for the discount.

Although it's now a couple of years old the document 'Environment Committee – Air Quality and Noise Pollution Around Heathrow Airport. Surface Access Issues – informal meeting 3.30pm on 6 December 2011 in Committee Room 2' published by the London Assembly contains some useful data points.

Slide 5 of a presentation
Targets in the current Surface Access Strategy; the target of 40 per cent of air passengers travelling to and from the airport by public transport by 2012 has been achieved, but the higher 45 per cent target had been dependent on Airtrack going ahead. The target to reduce staff travelling to work in single-occupancy vehicles to 65 per cent had resulted in a fall from 71.2 per cent in 2004 to 61.4 per cent. Out of 42,000 parking spaces at Heathrow, 17,500 are for staff. Staff do not pay for parking, but BAA Heathrow, which is required to provide parking for its tenants, can recover the costs as a contribution to its public transport levy, as applies to its public car parks. The public transport levy had provided just over £25 million towards sustainable transport schemes in the last ten years. Theo Panayi described how a decision had been made by the Chairman of BAA in 1994 to invest in public transport. There was no planning requirement to have a travel plan; indeed, at the Terminal 5 Inquiry, the Inspector said that BAA was already doing enough on transport planning.

Slide 7 of a presentation
Incentives and behavioural measures; the introduction of a 75 per cent staff discount on Heathrow Connect had resulted in an increase in usage from 500 staff to 1,700 per month – a number that continued to grow. A Heathrow travelcard had been introduced for staff living outside the London area, offering, for example, a £50 monthly ticket from Slough. The travelcard had generated sales of £200,000 and BAA Heathrow was continuing to work with operators to reduce prices and increase passenger numbers. From 2012, BAA Heathrow planned, in conjuntion with TfL, to sell Oyster cards and top-ups to Heathrow staff in the same way as a retailer would, except that the commission is refunded back to the customer. Simon Earles stated that this would give staff “high single-digit savings” in percentage terms. The scheme is funded through the public transport levy.

Item 9 - Buses
Theo Panayi listed the bus routes that BAA Heathrow subsidises to enable staff to arrive for shifts starting at 4.00am: 350 (Clarendon Road, Hayes to Heathrow Terminal 5), 423 (School Road, Hounslow to T5), 482 (Southall Broadway to T5) and 490 (Pools on the Park, Richmond to T5). This brings the total number of services serving the airport from London and elsewhere to 31 (and soon to be 32), with 13 of them running services that arrive at Heathrow by 4.00am. Theo Panayi indicated that the southern side of the airport had the weakest transport connections, with only routes 482 and 490 serving the southern perimeter.

Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect
21. Murad Qureshi AM asked what BAA was expecting from Crossrail. Simon Earles stated that the current expectation was for four trains per hour from late 2019, replacing the current Heathrow Connect service. Network Rail has identified an issue of capacity on the Great Western Main Line, with an unmet demand of 5,000 passengers per day from the late 2010s to the mid‑2020s. Network Rail has an option to increase Crossrail services from the planned four per hour to ten per hour, which would remove the Heathrow Express service. Four of these might be services that called at a smaller number of intermediate stations. However, BAA Heathrow estimated that mode share for rail would fall by three per cent if the non-stop Heathrow Express service was withdrawn, because of the number of passengers who use the service for its speed. BAA Heathrow has made representations to the Department for Transport and Office of Rail Regulation for more capacity on the Great Western Main Line.

22. Heathrow Express currently carried 5.5 million passengers per year and Heathrow Connect carries 400,000 passengers. Theo Panayi indicated that many in-bound passengers make decisions about onward travel as they walk out of the baggage hall. Tickets for the Heathrow Express services were now sold in the baggage hall. The added advantage of encouraging passengers to use the service is that once they have tried it they are more likely to become repeat users. Simon Earles commented that at peak times passengers often had to stand on the Heathrow Express.


A general comment - other documents are available on the world wide web which give more information on these and similar topics. One just has to look.
 
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