Is it time to relax the 2m social distancing guideline? (WHO guidance is 1m)

[jfollows]

I really do think even the government are overestimating the risks considering other countries have adopted 1m and are managing fine.

They are overstating the risks, but it's probably deliberate.
I think it's like 20mph speed limits. We know that these aren't enforced, with the exception of Tower Bridge. But they do affect average speeds, to the end that most people don't exceed 30mph in a 20mph zone, whereas many do when it's a 30mph speed limit.
So by talking of a 2m distance, on average people will be further apart than if they talked only of a 1m distance requirement. And this will feed through as fewer infections, which is what the government wants to see. But on an individual basis, 1m versus 2m is not significant.

 

[Huntergreed]

So by talking of a 2m distance, on average people will be further apart than if they talked only of a 1m distance requirement. And this will feed through as fewer infections, which is what the government wants to see. But on an individual basis, 1m versus 2m is not significant.

Perhaps so, however from a commercial basis it is significant. Reducing to 1m would effectively double the capacity of shops and public transport and make it much, much easier to reopen the economy. They may not realise this and think 2m is good “just to be safe”, but from a practical perspective it’s making the economic impact much greater than it needs to be.

 

[Yew]

During the Scottish briefing today, Sturgeon mentioned that “there are various media sources stating that 1m is a safe distance”, she emphasised that in Scotland this was not the case, that we need to remain 2m apart of risk another lockdown and overwhelming the NHS. I really do think even the government are overestimating the risks considering other countries have adopted 1m and are managing fine.

Is it just me who's getting fed up of the consistent false dichotomy we're being presented with? " You MUST do EXACTLY as we say, otherwise there WILL be a second peak that WILL overwhelm the NHS" And that's before we even get onto BoJo misrepresenting 2m to be a law, rather than a piece of guidence...

 

[NorthOxonian]

Perhaps so, however from a commercial basis it is significant. Reducing to 1m would effectively double the capacity of shops and public transport and make it much, much easier to reopen the economy. They may not realise this and think 2m is good “just to be safe”, but from a practical perspective it’s making the economic impact much greater than it needs to be.

Better than that, in some cases it can quadruple the capacity (since each person requires an area of c.3.1 square metres rather than 12.6)!

 

[43066]

Is it just me who's getting fed up of the consistent false dichotomy we're being presented with? " You MUST do EXACTLY as we say, otherwise there WILL be a second peak that WILL overwhelm the NHS" And that's before we even get onto BoJo misrepresenting 2m to be a law, rather than a piece of guidence...

No, it definitely isn’t just you!

 

[jfollows]

Is it just me who's getting fed up of the consistent false dichotomy we're being presented with?

I don't really have much of an opinion on Scotland; I sense that - apart from a major mistake in not sacking Catherine Calderwood immediately - Nichola Sturgeon has been reasonable sure-footed.
In England, I'm not fed up with all the tripe we're getting, I just think that Boris and his team are now operating in a parallel universe, and that increasingly more and more people are not taking any notice of anything much that he's saying.

 

[Esker-pades]

Meanwhile, in Paris residents are enjoying a croissant & coffee on café terraces after having had a lockdown with a social distancing of 1 metre..... Still Nanny Sturgeon knows best. I love Scotland as a country to visit, but would hate to have to live in her state!

But the death and infection rate in France is lower than the UK. They handled the crisis better and they are further along the curve. The UK *seems* to be about 2 weeks behind France at this point. Perhaps we can implement the French policies when our infection and deaths rates are alongside theirs, but we could also decide that it's a bad idea if the French experience is bad.

 

[43066]

Meanwhile, in Paris residents are enjoying a croissant & coffee on café terraces after having had a lockdown with a social distancing of 1 metre..... Still Nanny Sturgeon knows best. I love Scotland as a country to visit, but would hate to have to live in her state!

But the death and infection rate in France is lower than the UK. They handled the crisis better and they are further along the curve. The UK *seems* to be about 2 weeks behind France at this point. Perhaps we can implement the French policies when our infection and deaths rates are alongside theirs, but we could also decide that it's a bad idea if the French experience is bad.

I’m afraid I agree with the former poster.

The focus now needs to be on resuming normal life as soon as possible, for all of our benefit (and actual normal life, not a post apocalyptic “new normal”). Whether that means being able to book train tickets to travel in the ordinary way, or simply socialising as usual in the local pub (or equivalent).

The priority now needs to be getting the economy going again.

 

[The Ham]

I’m afraid I agree with the former poster.

The focus now needs to be on resuming normal life as soon as possible, for all of our benefit (and actual normal life, not a post apocalyptic “new normal”). Whether that means being able to book train tickets to travel in the ordinary way, or simply socialising as usual in the local pub (or equivalent).

The priority now needs to be getting the economy going again.

We could have nearly ignored doing a lockdown at all and just socially distanced if people followed the 2m guidance as soon as it was brought in, they didn't do so leading to the rates of infection rising.

There are cases where people caught Covid-19 on Mother's Day because they went to see their families, when they were very much told not to, and so there were more cases than needed.

Technically if we socially distanced correctly then we could have got rid of the vast majority of new cases within a month. We could have then restarted the economy in the ways we are now taking about after a much shorter time.

If we'd started socially distancing as soon as China started building hospitals within a matter of days then we'd not have had the number of cases we saw, but people's half term holidays were too important.

We are where we are and the fact that people wanted life to be normal when it shouldn't have been is the very reason that the lockdown has been at long as it has been.

With that history, what is likely to be best for the economy? Staying with tighter restrictions for a few weeks or being too lax and then having to tighten everything back up again?

Someone made an interesting point, if this was something which harmed children as much as adults then chances are this would have been sorted by now as many more would be much more careful so that it didn't harm their children/grandchildren.

 

[MikeWM]

We could have nearly ignored doing a lockdown at all and just socially distanced if people followed the 2m guidance as soon as it was brought in, they didn't do so leading to the rates of infection rising.

As far as I remember, the first time I heard anyone mention 2m was the morning of March 23rd, and that evening the lockdown was announced. That doesn't leave a lot of time!

Perhaps the 2m thing was around before that, but I was out and about in public places right up until the 23rd and I only heard about it that morning...

 

[Huntergreed]

As far as I remember, the first time I heard anyone mention 2m was the morning of March 23rd, and that evening the lockdown was announced. That doesn't leave a lot of time!

Perhaps the 2m thing was around before that, but I was out and about in public places right up until the 23rd and I only heard about it that morning...

As far as I’m aware it was simply “wash your hands”, social distancing wasn’t existent as far as I’m aware until the full lockdown was called.

 

[yorksrob]

As far as I’m aware it was simply “wash your hands”, social distancing wasn’t existent as far as I’m aware until the full lockdown was called.

We were also told not to shake hands.

And there was the week of "don't go down the pub unless you have to".

 

[Bikeman78]

As far as I remember, the first time I heard anyone mention 2m was the morning of March 23rd, and that evening the lockdown was announced. That doesn't leave a lot of time!

Perhaps the 2m thing was around before that, but I was out and about in public places right up until the 23rd and I only heard about it that morning...

That's my recollection too. I was out and about on the 14th and life was normal that day. Cardiff was absolutely packed with thousands of Scottish fans for the cancelled rugby match. They might as well have played the rugby because they were all out getting drunk. From the 15th onwards trains and shops were almost dead but I don't remember any mention of two metres that week.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This statement just further convinces me that politicians are treating us like idiots.

If you want people to be 1m apart, you suggest 1.5m or 2m as the guideline. As for treating people like idiots, the simple fact is that many people are idiots. A look at people burning 5G masts and blaming Bill Gates proves as much.

Meanwhile, in Paris residents are enjoying a croissant & coffee on café terraces after having had a lockdown with a social distancing of 1 metre..... Still Nanny Sturgeon knows best.

When the UK gets down to French infection rates, you might have a point!

I still think the lockdown was unnecessarily harsh, but you can't look at the FUBAR'd UK and compare favourably with anywhere in Europe.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Reducing to 1m would effectively double the capacity of shops and public transport

It would make absolutely no difference to public transport. Even with 1m gaps you could, for instance, only have 25% bus capacity- you'd still need to skip rows. It's the same on trains.

 

[yorksrob]

France had 1m social distancing when it had the same infection rate as we have now.

 

[Esker-pades]

We were also told not to shake hands.

And there was the week of "don't go down the pub unless you have to".

Until later that same press conference when the Prime Minister said that he had gone around and shaken hands with everybody at a hospital where there were COVID-19 patients.

 

[yorksrob]

Until later that same press conference when the Prime Minister said that he had gone around and shaken hands with everybody at a hospital where there were COVID-19 patients.

I didn't say we all adhered to the advice !

 

[Huntergreed]

Until later that same press conference when the Prime Minister said that he had gone around and shaken hands with everybody at a hospital where there were COVID-19 patients.

And yet the media and public were shocked when the PM and his cabinet suddenly developed symptoms of the virus. I wonder where it might have come from

 

[Esker-pades]

I didn't say we all adhered to the advice !

And yet the media and public were shocked when the PM and his cabinet suddenly developed symptoms of the virus. I wonder where it might have come from

Oh, I know! And these are the people we're supposed to trust with the rest of the response....

 

[yorkie]

Until later that same press conference when the Prime Minister said that he had gone around and shaken hands with everybody at a hospital where there were COVID-19 patients.

What's this got to do with anything?

Hardly anyone today was respecting the 2m rule. And a pedestrian stepped into the road right in front of me today; as I was being overtaken by a car at the time (that was a bit too close) I wasn't taking any chances and came to a sudden stop. People are putting themselves and others in danger.

Also peoples livelihoods are put in danger because risk assessments are requiring people to be kept 2m apart, even though hardly anyone is bothered about coming within 2m of anyone else on the street. It's insane.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52522460

The government has come under pressure from MPs and businesses to relax the 2m (6ft) rule for social distancing, to make it easier for people to return to work.

The World Health Organization says that a distance of 1m is safe. Some countries have adopted this guidance, while others, including the UK, have gone further...

 

[Esker-pades]

What's this got to do with anything?

I was responding to this part of a comment:

We were also told not to shake hands.

My emphasis.

 

[Bantamzen]

But the death and infection rate in France is lower than the UK. They handled the crisis better and they are further along the curve. The UK *seems* to be about 2 weeks behind France at this point. Perhaps we can implement the French policies when our infection and deaths rates are alongside theirs, but we could also decide that it's a bad idea if the French experience is bad.

If you want people to be 1m apart, you suggest 1.5m or 2m as the guideline. As for treating people like idiots, the simple fact is that many people are idiots. A look at people burning 5G masts and blaming Bill Gates proves as much.



When the UK gets down to French infection rates, you might have a point!

I still think the lockdown was unnecessarily harsh, but you can't look at the FUBAR'd UK and compare favourably with anywhere in Europe.

France had 1m social distancing when it had the same infection rate as we have now.

@yorksrob has given the correct answer. France always had a 1 metre separation regardless of their rates of infection and death. So I can only assume those siding with the government on 2 metres are happy to be treated as not being able to behave sensibly by Government
?

 

[C J Snarzell]

If you want people to be 1m apart, you suggest 1.5m or 2m as the guideline. As for treating people like idiots, the simple fact is that many people are idiots. A look at people burning 5G masts and blaming Bill Gates proves as much.

Was this the protest in London where Jeremy Corbyn's brother was among the ringleaders? I must admit having a bit of a chuckle about that.

CJ

I am starting to get concerned that the hot weather is encouraging more and more people to flout the lockdown and ignore social distancing. Only yesterday, I counted five instances where people were not following the rules and sadly all of them involved young people in their teens or early twenties.

CJ

 

[Bantamzen]

I am starting to get concerned that the hot weather is encouraging more and more people to flout the lockdown and ignore social distancing. Only yesterday, I counted five instances where people were not following the rules and sadly all of them involved young people in their teens or early twenties.

CJ

Would you care to expand on what part of the lockdown you think they broke?

 

[nedchester]

I am starting to get concerned that the hot weather is encouraging more and more people to flout the lockdown and ignore social distancing. Only yesterday, I counted five instances where people were not following the rules and sadly all of them involved young people in their teens or early twenties.

CJ

Do you know why?

Because the lockdown was only going to work for about three months.

People have had enough. They want to meet their friends, see family, travel, have parties, have intimate relationships. These are all human natural things. If the Government think they can enforce a lockdown longer than the end of the month they’re in a fantasy land.

 

[underbank]

And there was the week of "don't go down the pub unless you have to".

Which caused all the numpties to flock to the pubs that week. Our village pub had never been busier!

 

[underbank]

As far as I’m aware it was simply “wash your hands”, social distancing wasn’t existent as far as I’m aware until the full lockdown was called.

SD for everyone was implemented 7 days prior to lockdown, 17 March.

 

[yorksrob]

Which caused all the numpties to flock to the pubs that week. Our village pub had never been busier!

It did seem a fairy counter-productive announcement, not least for the pubs.

 

[AM9]

... People have had enough. They want to meet their friends, see family, travel, have parties, have intimate relationships. These are all human natural things. ...

All things that the virus depends on to start ramping up infections again.