Is LNER Twitter correct?

[basfordlad]

Looking at tickets from Durham to London on 2nd October, really quite expensive (0708)
First of all lner say the cheapest tickets are released about 6 weeks
Then they say the fares quoted at the moment are the cheapest ones
Looking at various dates in August and September their are much cheaper tickets for the same time
They then say its because of demand
Are any of their answers correct or is it simply the fully quota of advance tickets has not been released
help pls

 

[yorkie]

They are not correct; LNER has a habit of releasing their extended horizon fares at higher prices. I've seen this before with York to London; it can be extortionate to book far in advance.

Don't believe anyone who says it is always cheaper to book further ahead; if you wait for the "normal" booking horizon, and book with us, it may well be cheaper!


28 Aug:




2 Oct:

 

[basfordlad]

@yorkie i suspected this site would be right and they would be wrong
When do you think the normal booking window is open for this?
I will book via this site when it is

 

[Mike395]

At the moment, it's around 12 weeks before the date of travel (so another couple of weeks). It can be slightly less than this though.

 

[All Line Rover]

If you did end up buying any higher priced tickets based on LNER's false information, you should claim a price reduction for misselling.

 

[Howardh]

If you did end up buying any higher priced tickets based on LNER's false information, you should claim a price reduction for misselling.

Does a TOC HAVE to release cheap advances though? Couldn't LNER turn round and say for the period concerned they didn't intend to sell cheap advances? With air fares, if you book 6 months in advance it's a gamble as to whether between booking and the flight the fares go up or down!

 

[Haywain]

The tickets currently available are the cheapest currently available. Whether cheaper tickets become available later is something that a buyer has to take a gamble on.

 

[yorkie]

Does a TOC HAVE to release cheap advances though? Couldn't LNER turn round and say for the period concerned they didn't intend to sell cheap advances? With air fares, if you book 6 months in advance it's a gamble as to whether between booking and the flight the fares go up or down!

I got the impression that the original poster asked LNER the question and was told that the fares are cheaper now than they will be if they wait

However it would be much clearer if we can be given a quote of the correspondence (in quote tags, by using the quote button); if it's on Twitter and not via direct message, then a link should also be possible; perhaps @basfordlad can edit their post accordingly?

 

[Howardh]

I got the impression that the original poster asked LNER the question and was told that the fares are cheaper now than they will be if they wait

However it would be much clearer if we can be given a quote of the correspondence (in quote tags, by using the quote button); if it's on Twitter and not via direct message, then a link should also be possible; perhaps @basfordlad can edit their post accordingly?

If that is correct and in writing from their official twitter account, wouldn't that alone be sufficient to be a break of contract on their part if later on cheaper fares are available but presumably for the exact same type of trip/ticket, not that they offer (say) advances in future and claim they are different from what is being asked for now? This is probably badly worded on my part, I hope what I'm trying to get at is understood!

Anyway I'll be intrigued as to the answer to the OP.

 

[yorkie]

If that is correct and in writing from their official twitter account, wouldn't that alone be sufficient to be a break of contract on their part if later on cheaper fares are available but presumably for the exact same type of trip/ticket, not that they offer (say) advances in future and claim they are different from what is being asked for now? This is probably badly worded on my part, I hope what I'm trying to get at is understood!

Anyway I'll be intrigued as to the answer to the OP.

I refer you to the above post:

If you did end up buying any higher priced tickets based on LNER's false information, you should claim a price reduction for misselling.

 

[basfordlad]

Thanks I'll do that tommorrow.

 

[pelli]

However it would be much clearer if we can be given a quote of the correspondence (in quote tags, by using the quote button); if it's on Twitter and not via direct message, then a link should also be possible; perhaps @basfordlad can edit their post accordingly?

This conversation seems to fit the bill:

12:30 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: @ LNER what date are your cheapest tickets released up to at the moment pls
12:48 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Hi Phil, what date are you looking to travel please and from where / to where? ^Emma
1:19 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88 : 1st Oct durham to London.
1:22 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER : The cheapest journey for this date would be the train departing at 13:43 at £26.30 for an Advance Single ticket. ^Emma
1:23 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: When will the cheap tickets for the early morning services be released.
1:25 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Advance Single tickets for this date are now on sale. They would be our cheapest ticket type. ^Emma
1:28 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: That isn't correct . If you pick some random dates in Aug and Sept they are far cheaper. Please can you get me the proper information
1:29 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: You asked what the cheapest tickets for the 1st October were, did you not? ^Emma
1:31 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: Yes but it is obvious the full quota of cheap tickets has not been released
1:32 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: All tickets for this date have been released. Tickets are available for travel up to and including Friday 06 December 2024 ^Emma
1:33 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: Then explain the pricing anomaly please
1:36 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Pricing anomaly how so? This date is one of the cheapest. It is highlighted in green on our website as one of our lowest fares. ^Emma
1:39 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: Because if you look at other dates ie August tickets are far cheaper . Or check dates in Sept then you will see My point. Maybe ask your fares team
1:40 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Are you able to send a screenshot of where these cheaper fares are please so we can pass it on? ^Emma
1:42 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: [Screenshot]
1:43 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: £43.30 is more than £26.30 making it more expensive not cheaper? ^Emma
1:50 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: Look at the train times. You don't understand do you.
1:56 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Good afternoon, Phil. I can confirm the dates and times shown with prices are correct. The reason August and September are cheaper is due to less demand. Since the dates you require have a higher demand, the Advance tickets are more expensive.
2:25 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: So if I buy the tickets now at that price and they come down which I suspect they will do then what do I do. What will you do.
2:27 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Ticket prices are live, Phil. So if the price went down nothing would be done, unfortunately.
2:57 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: Well I don't think any of your advice is correct in regards to demand etc. I will come back and correct when I get a more authoritive source.
2:59 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: No worries, Phil. Don't hesitate to get in touch when you do and this can be reviewed.
7:30 AM Jul 10, 2024 @Philmoose88: It has been revealed that your tickets in the extended booking window are far more expensive then in the normal booking. Your advice could cost people money if someone wasn't quite so savy. Why do you think it's right to give misleading information
7:34 AM Jul 10, 2024 @LNER: Hello Phil, we're not sure we understand what you mean by this? Feel free to DM us further information and if you have any examples of what you mean that would be great. ^Charlene

 

[robbeech]

The tickets currently available are the cheapest currently available. Whether cheaper tickets become available later is something that a buyer has to take a gamble on.

Taking a gamble doesn’t strike me as a good tax payer funded public service. Infact it smells rather a lot of getting as much money from passengers as possible to me.

 

[yorkie]

This conversation seems to fit the bill:

12:30 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: @ LNER what date are your cheapest tickets released up to at the moment pls
12:48 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Hi Phil, what date are you looking to travel please and from where / to where? ^Emma
1:19 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88 : 1st Oct durham to London.
1:22 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER : The cheapest journey for this date would be the train departing at 13:43 at £26.30 for an Advance Single ticket. ^Emma
1:23 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: When will the cheap tickets for the early morning services be released.
1:25 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Advance Single tickets for this date are now on sale. They would be our cheapest ticket type. ^Emma
1:28 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: That isn't correct . If you pick some random dates in Aug and Sept they are far cheaper. Please can you get me the proper information
1:29 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: You asked what the cheapest tickets for the 1st October were, did you not? ^Emma
1:31 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: Yes but it is obvious the full quota of cheap tickets has not been released
1:32 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: All tickets for this date have been released. Tickets are available for travel up to and including Friday 06 December 2024 ^Emma
1:33 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: Then explain the pricing anomaly please
1:36 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Pricing anomaly how so? This date is one of the cheapest. It is highlighted in green on our website as one of our lowest fares. ^Emma
1:39 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: Because if you look at other dates ie August tickets are far cheaper . Or check dates in Sept then you will see My point. Maybe ask your fares team
1:40 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Are you able to send a screenshot of where these cheaper fares are please so we can pass it on? ^Emma
1:42 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: [Screenshot]
1:43 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: £43.30 is more than £26.30 making it more expensive not cheaper? ^Emma
1:50 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: Look at the train times. You don't understand do you.
1:56 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Good afternoon, Phil. I can confirm the dates and times shown with prices are correct. The reason August and September are cheaper is due to less demand. Since the dates you require have a higher demand, the Advance tickets are more expensive.
2:25 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: So if I buy the tickets now at that price and they come down which I suspect they will do then what do I do. What will you do.
2:27 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: Ticket prices are live, Phil. So if the price went down nothing would be done, unfortunately.
2:57 PM Jul 9, 2024 @Philmoose88: Well I don't think any of your advice is correct in regards to demand etc. I will come back and correct when I get a more authoritive source.
2:59 PM Jul 9, 2024 @LNER: No worries, Phil. Don't hesitate to get in touch when you do and this can be reviewed.
7:30 AM Jul 10, 2024 @Philmoose88: It has been revealed that your tickets in the extended booking window are far more expensive then in the normal booking. Your advice could cost people money if someone wasn't quite so savy. Why do you think it's right to give misleading information
7:34 AM Jul 10, 2024 @LNER: Hello Phil, we're not sure we understand what you mean by this? Feel free to DM us further information and if you have any examples of what you mean that would be great. ^Charlene

As for "The reason August and September are cheaper is due to less demand. Since the dates you require have a higher demand, the Advance tickets are more expensive", I am convinced this made-up answer; I have seen this phenomenon before, but they can't admit the truth (if they know it), can't ask a manager (or don't want to), so just make something up, knowing 99% of customers will just accept it.

It's pretty clear to me that anyone who books at the higher price would be entitled to a refund of the difference on fares, once the quota of cheaper tickets is released.

I am confident that lower priced tickets will be released; the only caveat being if LNER read this discussion and prevent their sale for this journey on this date on order to cover up what goes on; I doubt they are that sophisticated or devious and in any case it would backfire.

This is really just the tip of the iceberg in terms of anticompetitive practice and misleading claims by LNER.

The company needs to be careful as they could potentially find themselves in legal trouble, as GTR are now in, through not heeding the advice on this forum.

The tickets currently available are the cheapest currently available. Whether cheaper tickets become available later is something that a buyer has to take a gamble on.

Does the company make this policy clear? Or do they suggest that the best prices are booked earlier in advance?

(No need to answer; we know the answer!)

 

[Haywain]

Does the company make this policy clear?

Policy? My comment is simple fact. I have no knowledge of LNER policy.

 

[yorkie]

Policy? My comment is simple fact. I have no knowledge of LNER policy.

Thank you for confirming what we all know, but LNER won't admit

I wonder why LNER don't admit it's a gamble..

 

[Haywain]

Thank you for confirming what we all know, but LNER won't admit

What is it you think I've confirmed?

 

[yorkie]

What is it you think I've confirmed?

That booking this far ahead is a gamble.

I'd go further and say it's a very unwise gamble that is unlikely to pay off (notwithstanding the fact that the difference can clearly be claimed back in this particular case)

LNER are offering course keen for people to pay the higher price, so aren't admitting it.

 

[Haywain]

That booking this far ahead is a gamble.

As is waiting and booking later.

 

[yorkie]

As is waiting and booking later.

That is the definition of a gamble, yes.

But in this case, I would absolutely put my money on the price going down, not up; would you agree?

 

[Haywain]

But in this case, I would absolutely put my money on the price going down, not up; would you agree?

No, because I don't bet and I don't follow LNER's or any other TOC's pricing and availability particularly closely.

 

[Starmill]

No, because I don't bet and I don't follow LNER's or any other TOC's pricing and availability particularly closely.

Your comments implied equal balances of risk and reward in both courses though, which is the reason they're being challenged. It's very unlikely indeed that there's an equal balance because the extended period bookings are a commercial tool to push up yields.

In reality, LNER made this statement:

All tickets for this date have been released.

And it's this point which is specifically being challenged.

 

[yorkie]

No, because I don't bet and I don't follow LNER's or any other TOC's pricing and availability particularly closely.

Can you be clear and state if you would, or wouldn't, book at the extended booking horizon?

Your comments implied equal balances of risk and reward in both courses though, which is the reason they're being challenged. It's very unlikely indeed that there's an equal balance because the extended period bookings are a commercial tool to push up yields.

In reality, LNER made this statement:

And it's this point which is specifically being challenged.

Exactly this.

 

[Haywain]

Can you be clear and state if you would, or wouldn't, book at the extended booking horizon?

I have done, but I rarely plan so far in advance.

Your comments implied equal balances of risk and reward in both courses though,

A curious interpretation of a gamble.

 

[Starmill]

A curious interpretation of a gamble.

Not really. You've described two things as a gamble, comparably, which is the reason readers have concluded you thought they would be approximately equally likely. This is the central point you're being questioned on. If that's not what you thought, you've declined several opportunities to clarify by now, so I think those reading will have to form their own conclusions about what you were getting at.

 

[Mainline421]

Buying any Advance ticket is a gamble, they're non-refundable and a lot could happen in three months....

 

[bcarmicle]

Not really. You've described two things as a gamble, comparably, which is the reason readers have concluded you thought they would be approximately equally likely. This is the central point you're being questioned on. If that's not what you thought, you've declined several opportunities to clarify by now, so I think those reading will have to form their own conclusions about what you were getting at.

That seems a very uncharitable explanation. I would say that betting on red in roulette is a gamble, and so is the lottery, but they are hardly similar odds. And Haywait resisted your interpretation as soon as you made it in post 22.

 

[yorkie]

That seems a very uncharitable explanation. I would say that betting on red in roulette is a gamble, and so is the lottery, but they are hardly similar odds. And Haywait resisted your interpretation as soon as you made it in post 22.

I don't get what point you are making; can you be clear and state if you would, or wouldn't, book at the extended booking horizon?

I have done, but I rarely plan so far in advance

So you have taken the "gamble"; but would you still do so on future, given what has been posted in this thread?

Do you think the OP should or shouldn't book now, and what would you do if you were the OP?

 

[Haywain]

So you have taken the "gamble"; but would you still do so on future, given what has been posted in this thread?

If the price was acceptable to me, yes.

Do you think the OP should or shouldn't book now, and what would you do if you were the OP?

The OP can make their own choice. I have nothing further to say on the matter.

 

[Starmill]

That seems a very uncharitable explanation. I would say that betting on red in roulette is a gamble, and so is the lottery, but they are hardly similar odds.

They're completely independent, unrelated things. Buying a ticket now or waiting and buying a ticket later are inter-related.

And Haywain resisted your interpretation as soon as you made it in post 22.

But declined the many opportunities to expand on their true motivation for posting. Indeed, it's very common for Haywain and wallsendmag to argue against anything that's posted on the forum that's critical of LNER, but then when they're challenged on the details to either not respond or say they've nothing to add, as here. This means that readers will have to make up their own minds as to why that is.