Is Our Hobby Becoming Destigmatized?

[Journeyman]

I think there's a more general acceptance of diversity now than there was even 10 years ago. It isn't that long ago that a pop star would be outed as being gay in the front page of the Sunday papers and it would be almost treat as some national scandal. Nowadays, I doubt that would happen.

That's certainly true - the world is becoming a much more tolerant and accepting place, and it's very good to see. There's still a long way to go, but it's improving all the time.

30 years ago when I was at school, the place was absolutely rife with homophobic bullying - even from the teachers - and Section 28 made it impossible for the school to address it properly. Nowadays, my kids' school is full of people happy to be openly gay, there's a Stonewall group, and plenty of discussion and teaching on diversity and difference, and it's a WAY better environment to be in. Bullying someone because of their sexuality is now seen as completely beyond the pale by both staff and 99.9999999% of the kids.

 

[swt_passenger]

I visited the ECML on Saturday to enjoy seeing Alycidon on The Albert Gilmour Memorial Charter.
There was another chap, about my age, out to film it going past. Also, (I assume) three generations of a family. I got chatting to them and the grandma was asking me how to find the numbers on the 180 units (just found them myself!).
Grandad was taking numbers, and the young lad, about 12, seemed very keen to hang around afterwards when he learned about a 66 coming along on freight. He brought back, for me, that first feeling of excitement and delight on being round the railway, so I saw something of myself in him. Even his sister joined in and took a photograph.
Other times when out and about, passers-by ask me if anything special is coming along, which generally means a steam train, but still; interest is interest.
So, with more railway-themed TV programs perhaps being a reason, do you think interest in railways is becoming destigmatized? I think so, I hope so.

You don't seem to have been able to give your hobby, (whatever it is), a name?

 

[shredder1]

Never really been one for stigmas, always just done what I've enjoyed doing, if people stigmatise other peoples interests and hobbies, well that's their problem not mine, although I no longer write numbers down I still class myself as a trainspotting/photographer and rock guitarist, that's what I do!

 

[D5645]

That's certainly true - the world is becoming a much more tolerant and accepting place, and it's very good to see. There's still a long way to go, but it's improving all the time.

30 years ago when I was at school, the place was absolutely rife with homophobic bullying - even from the teachers - and Section 28 made it impossible for the school to address it properly. Nowadays, my kids' school is full of people happy to be openly gay, there's a Stonewall group, and plenty of discussion and teaching on diversity and difference, and it's a WAY better environment to be in. Bullying someone because of their sexuality is now seen as completely beyond the pale by both staff and 99.9999999% of the kids.

I would certainly agree with your comments.

Things are much better now for my kids at school than they were back in my school days.

There is definitely much more tolerance of being different than there used to be and that is definitely a good thing.

Being a railway crank comes under the category of nerd chic nowadays.

 

[Lucan]

There is definitely much more tolerance of being different than there used to be

No there isn't. It is just that what is considered "different" has changed.

 

[Strat-tastic]

You don't seem to have been able to give your hobby, (whatever it is), a name?

*speaks in hushed tones*

Ya really wanna know, sir?

*looks round furtively*

Cookery. There! I am officially out

 

[mikey9]

I have always found that making the comparison with obsessive following of football that so many seem to have is useful. TSome folk get pleasure from knowing the numbers of goals a team, or player has scored,in a year, a season, crowd figures, away goals, score draws, players inside leg measurements and all the fluffle that seems to be witterred about (but all apparently socially acceptable......but why the difference).

On the "spectrum" argument - it is easy to turn around the comment with the argument made above - "we are all on it somewhere - some further along than others" - then there is a famous truck mechanic from near Grimsby doing his best to demonstrate that being a long way along it can be turned to your advantage and can be very entertaining

 

[silverfoxcc]

Reading this thread brought a long forgotten episode at school. There were several of us who spent every lunch time at Wood Green ( LNER) station. This was commented on by a teacher who 'suggested' our time would be better spent about learning things.
One day towards the end of a term ( Xmas IIRC due to the relaxed attitude of staff) he organsied a general knowledge quiz. The 'trainspotters' team ran away with it and he queried how we knew so much. Watching Trains was the answer We cited all the named classes on the various regions gave us ,Racehorsed,Kings, Fables ( king Arthur) Countries of the Empire Royalty, Geography of the British Isles (GWR classes and WC) WW2 History ...he stopped us,and said. I never knew that.. Treated us with a bit more respect after that.

 

[xotGD]

Many hobbies have their trainspotteresque element which a minority get into:

Watching football: Visiting every ground (scratching)
Hiking: Getting to the summit of every hill of a particular classification - e.g. Munroe 'bagging' (scratching)
Bird watching: Twitching (spotting)
Beer drinking: 'Ticking' real ales (scratching), visiting every 'Spoons (scratching)
Music: Record collecting (scratching)

And then you have this whole 'bucket list' thing, which is essentially turning your entire life into a Platform 5 Combined Volume!

I guess among those with an interest in railways the spotting/scratching elements are more prevalent, and this is what gives it the reputation of an anorak hobby.

 

[shredder1]

Yes the anorak derivative was sourced from trainspotting in the 40/50`s and is now applied to most obsessive type hobbies, collectormania appears to be a traite for certain personality types from collecting stamps to collecting guitars I guess

 

[6Gman]

Amongst the general public? Sure, railway enthusiasm is becoming much more "acceptable", probably partially because these days, "spotters" are more likely to be taking photos than writing down numbers in notebooks and thereby making the hobby a branch of photography, which has always been a very "respectable" hobby.

Of course, amongst rail staff, enthusiasts are increasingly treated with derision and contempt. From rediculous claims that because they were standing next to the train at the time it was photographed, they somehow have the right to inspect and demand deletion of photos they don't like, to "security" concerns born of pure paranoia, to trying to have enthusiast passengers ejected from the station because they haven't "signed in" before taking a photo of the train they've just disembarked from, staff in general really make it clear that they don't like enthusiasts.

Can't recall ever having problems pursuing my interest in railways.

Now, photographing buses is a different matter ...

 

[6Gman]

The 'collecting numbers' is quite an annoying stereotype. A typical conversation to my classmates about 'trainspotting' (railway enthusiasm) would go like this:

"What's the point of writing down serial numbers?"
"There is none."
"Why do you do it then?"
"I don't"
"(sarcastic) Sure you don't."

I'm sure if it was about different types of loco it would be no different to a Petrolhead or Avgeek, and that if it was different scenic lines no different to river cruising, but writing down numbers as a concept doesn't make sense to most people.

"What's the point of writing down numbers?"
"There is none."
"So why do you do it?"
"Because it's a pointless hobby. If it had a point, it wouldn't be a hobby."

 

[6Gman]

I was writing numbers down at Crewe a few weeks ago (I'm sixty-ish to put this in context).

Chap said to me: "I used to trainspot when I was a youngster".

My reply: "So did I".

He seemed a bit nonplussed by that to be honest.

 

[fowler9]

Everyone I work with knows I like trains, planes, buses etc. I never get any stick. We were talking about it in work the other day. I told people that, yeah, I like trains and if that makes me weird or boring I don't care. I also follow my team home and away, have mates in bands with record deals and have flown right the way round the world. People were accepting or actually interested. Other people were surprised as they thought I didn't seem like a train spotter. Ha ha.

Two lads came out and said they watch Love Island and got mercilessly ripped. Ha ha. In a nice way like, we are all grown ups and there is no bullying.

 

[KevinTurvey]

I also think it is less of a problem now than say 30 years ago. There were comedians and media people including Jasper Carrott (actually one of my favorite comedians) and Ben Elton I think, doing skits about trainspotting and the railway industry in general.

Nowadays there are a huge amount (by comparison) of railway programmes on TV so it maybe has become a bit less niche, especially also when these are presented by well known names such as Dan and Jon Snow, James May, Julie Walters to name a few, interest in trains is seen as a little less 'odd'.

 

[yorksrob]

I also think it is less of a problem now than say 30 years ago. There were comedians and media people including Jasper Carrott (actually one of my favorite comedians) and Ben Elton I think, doing skits about trainspotting and the railway industry in general.

Nowadays there are a huge amount (by comparison) of railway programmes on TV so it maybe has become a bit less niche, especially also when these are presented by well known names such as Dan and Jon Snow, James May, Julie Walters to name a few, interest in trains is seen as a little less 'odd'.

Yes, Jasper Carrott was brilliant. He needs to come back.

 

[mallard]

Can't recall ever having problems pursuing my interest in railways.

Just to clarify, all three of those examples are based on incidents that I have personally been involved in.

To add a little bit of balance, some staff have been remarkably friendly when I've been photographing trains. Such as once at London St. Pancras (EMT platforms) where I was idly taking a few shots while waiting for my train to be officially annouced for boarding. A member of staff saw me and asked me if I'd like to be let through the barriers to take some better shots. This meant that when my train was annouced for boarding a couple of minutes later, I had about half a platform's lead on the crowd of "ordinary" passengers!

 

[03_179]

Working in an engerering depot I often have the mickey taken about being a spotter etc.

Strangely when they need to know about an incident, train times or general info on railways who do they come too ?

Now I openly display my rail enthusiasm ... Rail Express calendar on the wall.

I like doing model Railways too.

Again had the mickey taken (oh toy trains ... your choo choos) but now I often have conversations with 6 or 7 out of a shed of 60 about modelling and two have layouts. They are more open now about their model railway.

 

[Sankey Wire]

The first blockade at the site of what will soon be Warrington West Station took place throughout the weekend.

I like a few minute’s walk away and made the most of the good weather to take pictures at different times. On each occasion there was a crowd of three or four people - young and old - watching the NR workers, plenty of pictures have been posted on the local Facebook group too. There’s cetainly something about the railway which captures the “big kid” in all of us.

 

[Condor7]

Yes the anorak derivative was sourced from trainspotting in the 40/50`s and is now applied to most obsessive type hobbies, collectormania appears to be a traite for certain personality types from collecting stamps to collecting guitars I guess

To the best of my knowledge the term ‘anorak’ to describe people with obsessive hobbies was coined by Andy Archer a Radio Caroline dj’s. It was when they broadcast from a boat out at sea and fans of the station would arrive on boat trips, and to help keep themselves dry most wore anoraks, leading Andy Archer one day to say, “here comes another load of anoraks”. It was later then applied to the likes of trainspotters etc from about the 1970’s.

 

[LBOTG]

As someone who only recently got into trains, it's quite interesting how people react to you spotting trains essentially on how you do it.

I take my photos with a phone - as I don't have the traditional "big boy cameras" people and staff do often go up to me, especially at train stations, because I'm not necessarily like most of the "other train spotters" they see. I think there is still a stereotype regarding what transport enthusiasts should be like and I am hoping that will change in the future - I do often find I'm the only "relatively young" person if I end up at Acton Main Line.

I do think it's become better though, I wouldn't dare share my enthusiasm at school (somehow have a few people I can talk to and wouldn't want to lose that) but I think the hobby has become more recognised and because there are so many people interested, just proven by this ever-growing rail forum, it is generally accepted that people are going to go after trains, hopefully in any shape means or form.

One thing I fear though, is like almost everything else, train travel will only be for the wealthy. Prices are rocketing sky-high and when I tried planning my first long train day out in East Anglia, I was horrified at the end product! It does mean I'm probably going to sacrifice a couple of my other trips in the summer, which is a shame and to be honest I don't think I'll be able to splash out on trains very regularly. My other hobby, bus enthusiasm, is something you can get away with being cheaper, although I would argue that snapping in the middle of the street taking photos of buses attracts even more attention!

 

[DarloRich]

The key point is to not let your interest become an all consuming obsession to the level that you are unable to function in society and hold down relationships. Sadly, many people with interests in trains are unable to do that. We all know them and we have all run into them and been dragged into their tiresome wibble about something pointless and often hilariously wrong. That part of our wider hobby is not a myth.

I am interested in railways. Everyone knows that. However that interest is not all consuming and I have other interests and the ability to go out with friends who aren't interested in trains and converse on other topics.

Anyway at least we aren't bus spotters. What saddos.

Amongst the general public? Sure, railway enthusiasm is becoming much more "acceptable", probably partially because these days, "spotters" are more likely to be taking photos than writing down numbers in notebooks and thereby making the hobby a branch of photography, which has always been a very "respectable" hobby.

Of course, amongst rail staff, enthusiasts are increasingly treated with derision and contempt. From rediculous claims that because they were standing next to the train at the time it was photographed, they somehow have the right to inspect and demand deletion of photos they don't like, to "security" concerns born of pure paranoia, to trying to have enthusiast passengers ejected from the station because they haven't "signed in" before taking a photo of the train they've just disembarked from, staff in general really make it clear that they don't like enthusiasts.

I wonder why some people on this board experience such problems. I never have.

I think there are still a lot more people with some interest than we realise!
I’ve accidentally found out several colleagues have some interest. There were 5 or 6 of us at work chatting about trains not long ago (on a department of about 50 people). Some of the others in that conversation knew very detailed technical stuff!

There are quite a few people interested in railways. It is amazing who you bump into at preserved railways. Obviously all there for a day out for the kids

 

[richw]

Anyway at least we aren't bus spotters. What saddos.

Could be worse, could be a beer can spotter

 

[mallard]

I wonder why some people on this board experience such problems. I never have.

I believe that's called "victim blaming". Please refrain. Just because you're lucky enough to look "trustworthy" and/or "professional" and/or "not like an easy mark" and/or happen to have managed to avoid "difficult" rail staff doesn't give you the right to pour scorn on those who aren't so lucky.

We're all painfully aware that (for example; I'm neither of these things) a 20-ish year old rail enthusiast of middle-eastern appearance who travels alone is far more likely to enounter "issues" than a middle-aged (or older) white person who travels with a group of similar people. Similar things apply in degrees to other individuals.

 

[DarloRich]

I believe that's called "victim blaming". Please refrain. Just because you're lucky enough to look "trustworthy" and/or "professional" and/or "not like an easy mark" and/or happen to have managed to avoid "difficult" rail staff doesn't give you the right to pour scorn on those who aren't so lucky.

We're all painfully aware that (for example; I'm neither of these things) a 20-ish year old rail enthusiast of middle-eastern appearance who travels alone is far more likely to enounter "issues" than a middle-aged (or older) white person who travels with a group of similar people. Similar things apply in degrees to other individuals.

I am not blaming any victims. I simply ask why certain posters here seem to encounter terrible difficulties while others of us seem to be able to negotiate life without constant conflict. I notice you haven't answered that. Why do you think you encounter such problems? Could you change anything you do to minimise such awful encounters?

As an aside I will comment on whatever I fancy within the rules of this board. It is not up to you to stop anything. Please refrain form trying to do so.

 

[mallard]

I notice you haven't answered that.

Yes I did. Apparently you didn't read beyond the first sentence of my post...

you're lucky enough to look "trustworthy" and/or "professional" and/or "not like an easy mark" and/or happen to have managed to avoid "difficult" rail staff

Why do you think you encounter such problems?

Because I probably don't look much like the stereotypical rail enthusiast/"spotter".

Could you change anything you do to minimise such awful encounters?

Wait about another 20 years, develop a (more serious) weight problem, stop washing and start drinking beer... (Meant somewhat in jest, obviously).

As an aside I will comment on whatever I fancy within the rules of this board.

The "rules of this board" require one to be "respectful" to others. I'd suggest (while I'm no moderator) that comment was arguably out of complaince with that rule, but I'll leave that as it is.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes I did. Apparently you didn't read beyond the first sentence of my post...

So you are saying the reason you get trouble is because you are shifty, scruffy, an easy "mark" (?) and attract "difficult" railway staff. Could that not be fixed though personal change?

Because I probably don't look much like the stereotypical rail enthusiast/"spotter".

I don't think I do. I don't get any trouble so it cant be on perception alone.

Wait about another 20 years, develop a (more serious) weight problem, stop washing and start drinking beer... (Meant somewhat in jest, obviously).

Why would that make any difference? You can still have a bad attitude and tick all of those boxes.

The "rules of this board" require one to be "respectful" to others. I'd suggest (while I'm no moderator) that comment was arguably out of complaince with that rule, but I'll leave that as it is.

I challenged you. It is amazing how many posters cant deal with that.

 

[mallard]

So you are saying the reason you get trouble is because you are shifty, scruffy, an easy "mark" (?) and attract "difficult" railway staff. Could that not be fixed though personal change?

See my edit... I'm most definitely not "scruffy", quite the opposite in fact, which is why I don't look like the typical "spotter" who stereotypically (and I'm arguing against stereotypes here, in case it's not obvious) is rather "scruffy" and unkempt.

I challenged you. It is amazing how many posters cant deal with that.

A "challenge" that suggests I'm doing something "wrong" and that you're somehow "better". I think I dealt with it in the spirit it was intended.

 

[DarloRich]

See my edit... I'm most definitely not "scruffy", quite the opposite in fact, which is why I don't look like the typical "spotter" who stereotypically (and I'm arguing against stereotypes here, in case it's not obvious) is rather "scruffy" and unkempt.

But I don' t meet that stereotype. I am quite smart. I do drink evil beer but I have a wash on a fairly regular basis.

EDIT - Why would being "smart" attract attention? Surely staff would be more interested in a scruff. They might be vagrants or up to no good. Surely someone smartly dress would pass unnoticed. I am afraid i don't understand that.

A "challenge" that suggests I'm doing something "wrong" and that you're somehow "better". I think I dealt with it in the spirit it was intended.

No you stropped off about the nasty internet man not being nice to you. As I said you seem to experience really bad interactions with staff at stations. I and many others don't. Why is that? Perhaps some self reflection might be helpful in avoiding them in the future.

 

[mallard]

Why would that make any difference? You can still have a bad attitude and tick all of those boxes.

If you look like a "harmless older rail nut", you're much less likely to be involved in a situation where "attitude" has any bearing.

I suppose if you're of the extremely passive, "sure, mister platform staff, feel free to look through my photos and delete any that might harm your employer's 'brand' or which you dislike for personal reasons" attitude, you're less likely to consider such requests a gross violation of your personal rights (even if you're taking photos in a place where they're explicitly banned, nobody is allowed to examine or order deletion of them without a court order)...