Is rail always the answer?

[yorksrob]

Generally, buses are good for short hops with lots of stops. Towns need both this, and a link to the wider rail network for faster journeys further afield.

 

[Class 170101]

That was the other part of the bad planning - an assumption that all future journeys would be by car. Completely ignoring the fact that historic large cities can't exist in modern form without public transport, and new large cities would end up sprawling over huge areas like most of the ones in America.

Not sure that MK could sprawl in the same way as US Cities. Greenbelt legislation would see to that surely otherwise MK will merge with Wolverton and Bletchley?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But if you were a business with customers in other places? A family who had moved to MK when other parts of the family (grandparents, aunties, uncles) didn't? Did they really believe that no-one would ever have to travel anywhere else?!

MK's road system makes getting to Wolverton or Bletchley not that hard. Arguably the need for MKC wasn't about people getting to the station to travel out, it was about bringing people in to grow the "business park" side of Central Milton Keynes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not sure that MK could sprawl in the same way as US Cities. Greenbelt legislation would see to that surely otherwise MK will merge with Wolverton and Bletchley?

Wolverton and Bletchley are part of MK and have been for years. It was basically built in the triangle of Wolverton, Bletchley and Newport Pagnell, and subsumed them from very early on. The sprawl (which it is doing) is heading out into basically open farmland.

 

[The Ham]

Is rail always the answer? No.

Should it be the answer more than it currently is? Yes.

For instance the Southern Approach to Heathrow, even ignoring the Waterloo services, could serve ~10 stations with >30 million existing passengers, which would provide local services when things inwards of Weybridge go wrong. Which if the services were also paired so as to run through to Paddington would help with travel into London at such times too. It would also mean that passengers could change at Woking and get a train to Old Oak Common for services on HS2.

With that number of existing passengers you wouldn't need much of a uplift in passenger numbers to see a lot of people using the services. Especially as there's existing services in the off peak which are 4 coach trains which are full with some standing.

Add to that there's also some significant developments planned for some places, including Basingstoke where is likely to gain another 50,000 in the next 25 years (IIRC).

Also bearing in mind that SWR is a net contributor to the existing network, having more trains running on the tracks which are otherwise mostly underused (basically on the Basingstoke/Guildford services once the trains reach the existing lines there's really only a need for works at Woking, Basingstoke and Guildford, all of which would be a nice to have regardless of if there were any new services and would be needed for Crossrail 2 as well, as they would aid in recovery when things go wrong).

It could even, if the Basingstoke service stopped at all stations West of Woking, allow there to be more services to Aldershot and maybe even Farnham. This could either be at the expense of 1 of the 2tph which are the Basingstoke Stoppers by diverting it totally or by splitting it at Woking, although at peak times the service patterns would likely be the same.

Although the above example could be a red rag to those who think that their region is also deserving of investment and why does London and the South East get all the money, it should be noted that I'm saying that there should be more money for rail investment and that I've just used a case which is local to me and I'm sure that there's examples of schemes which should happen all over the place.

 

[Aictos]

With the Luton Busway I know there were plans to extend it to Leighton Buzzard and I know there already exists a hourly service between Luton and MKC via Leighton Buzzard but if the extension meant a better service with a higher frequency of services then I’m all for it.

I’m not saying busways are the answer to everything but in the case of the Luton one it was and still is the best decision that local govt made.

As to the Basingstoke stoppers, any reason why they can’t be extended to Eastleigh and call all stations from Woking thus speeding up some ex Weymouth/Poole services?

Equally we have the London to Portsmouth via Eastleigh services so why don’t we have London to Southampton via Guildford?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

The loss of Leigh's proper railway kind of killed the town, a town that used to have it's own municipal buses, it's own top flight RL club, it's own identity. Now it's absorbed within Wigan borough and really has no say over it's own future. The bus link kind of furthers this dissolution of the town to dormitory suburb status. A railway means something, means you can go to and from a place - a busway goes to some secondary non-entity place (a la Dunstable, St.Ives etc)

 

[edwin_m]

The loss of Leigh's proper railway kind of killed the town, a town that used to have it's own municipal buses, it's own top flight RL club, it's own identity. Now it's absorbed within Wigan borough and really has no say over it's own future. The bus link kind of furthers this dissolution of the town to dormitory suburb status. A railway means something, means you can go to and from a place - a busway goes to some secondary non-entity place (a la Dunstable, St.Ives etc)

An interesting question would be what, in the way of transport links, would put it back on the map. Tram? Bus service treated as part of the rail network with integrated timetables, ticketing and Delay Repay? A decent heavy rail service for Leigh would involve at least two trains per hour into Manchester, which would require expensive capaciyt work nearer the city as well as a new branch for Leigh. There are many other places in a similar situation.

 

[The Ham]

As to the Basingstoke stoppers, any reason why they can’t be extended to Eastleigh and call all stations from Woking thus speeding up some ex Weymouth/Poole services?

Equally we have the London to Portsmouth via Eastleigh services so why don’t we have London to Southampton via Guildford?

Both are limited by capacity, so don't expect many if any extra services.

Part of the lack of Southampton service via Guildford is that the change to head west from the Guildford services is fairly straightforward, unlike from Eastleigh heading towards Portsmouth.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Equally we have the London to Portsmouth via Eastleigh services so why don’t we have London to Southampton via Guildford?

London to Portsmouth via Eastleigh provides a direct service from three large conurbations - Basingstoke, Winchester and Eastleigh - to another. London to Southampton via Guildford bypasses Portsmouth and provides much smaller townships such as Petersfield and Haslemere a direct service to Southampton which is already available by changing at Havant.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

An interesting question would be what, in the way of transport links, would put it back on the map. Tram? Bus service treated as part of the rail network with integrated timetables, ticketing and Delay Repay? A decent heavy rail service for Leigh would involve at least two trains per hour into Manchester, which would require expensive capaciyt work nearer the city as well as a new branch for Leigh. There are many other places in a similar situation.

A short branch to Newton operated by a shuttle service could give connectivity to both Liverpool, Manchester and Warrington.

 

[Ianno87]

A short branch to Newton operated by a shuttle service could give connectivity to both Liverpool, Manchester and Warrington.

I'm sure there was once talk of a 'Parkway' type station on the Chat Moss route near Leigh many years ago... does that have potential? Not that the Chat Moss route necessarily has capacity for such things these days...

But no need for costly additional trains to run...merely stops in existing ones.