Is the end is nigh for class 442*

[Domh245]

They are near enough perfect for their role. The only genuine fault I can think of is that they are a bit slow off the mark, but that is probably a power supply issue.

I think that they still have a restricted performance curve, so accelerate much like their predecessors. Once the D stock are gone, the timetable can be recast properly, and then further improved with the resignalling when that actually happens

 

[43096]

Erm, Normals? As opposed to whom, enthusiasts?

Are you telling me that the people who use the trains day in, day out, shouldn't have a say in what they look like, and instead we should only listen to enthusiasts on forums?

Exactly. Normals are, to a very large degree, stupid. Just look at their behaviour. They certainly don't (as a general rule) have any idea what the alternatives are, what good is elsewhere. I would suggest that enthusiasts have a far better idea of different train types both here and in other countries and so have more experience from which to make comparisons.

 

[Kite159]

Exactly. Normals are, to a very large degree, stupid. Just look at their behaviour. They certainly don't (as a general rule) have any idea what the alternatives are, what good is elsewhere. I would suggest that enthusiasts have a far better idea of different train types both here and in other countries and so have more experience from which to make comparisons.

Normals will crowd around in the nearest coaches where it will be rather cosy than walk a bit further the rest of the train is empty!

Best example is the stansted express services

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Normals will crowd around in the nearest coaches where it will be rather cosy than walk a bit further the rest of the train is empty!

Best example is the stansted express services

Had a little chuckle to myself earlier at Dewsbury when "normals" were hammering at the button of a 185 door that had "DOOR NOT IN USE" lit up on it in bright red letters right next to the button...

My humour was short lived though, as on arrival at Huddersfield I'd forgotten and walked to that door to exit before realising my mistake! I regained some superiority mind, by moving to the next carriage rather than queueing to use the other door in that carriage. Guess what lots of folk were doing on the platform at Huddersfield though!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Normals will crowd around in the nearest coaches where it will be rather cosy than walk a bit further the rest of the train is empty!

Best example is the stansted express services

There are plans around to deal with this, involving the train doing real time monitoring of passenger numbers and seat reservations, to work out which carriages are least full and which carriages passengers should board at each station en route.

That information, together with train formation (length, location of 1st etc) is communicated to platform PIS systems which indicate through the matrix displays or a colour coding system where each coach will be and where they should stand etc.

The intention is to have customers with reservations standing at the correct door for their booked seats, 1st class passengers at the correct end of the platform, and for passengers in general to be boarding the least full carriage so they can board quickly and reduce dwell times.

 

[Domh245]

Exactly. Normals are, to a very large degree, stupid. Just look at their behaviour. They certainly don't (as a general rule) have any idea what the alternatives are, what good is elsewhere. I would suggest that enthusiasts have a far better idea of different train types both here and in other countries and so have more experience from which to make comparisons.

Sorry, but if we listened only to enthusiasts, we may have some good trains, but we would end up with Loco Hauled 442s, 25kV AC 444s, and MUs that are fitted out like Mk1s if this forum is anything to go by!

'Normals' may not know what alternatives exist, but they sure as hell know what they want (even if they aren't allowed it!)

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Sorry, but if we listened only to enthusiasts, we may have some good trains, but we would end up with Loco Hauled 442s, 25kV AC 444s, and MUs that are fitted out like Mk1s if this forum is anything to go by!

'Normals' may not know what alternatives exist, but they sure as hell know what they want (even if they aren't allowed it!)

25kV anything is good, a 25kV Siemens Class 444 would be a fantastic unit. I'm not ashamed to say it is what always springs to mind when I look at the missing bits of electrification on the routes of the Liverpool to Norwich service and wonder when we'll finish colouring it all in.

 

[swt_passenger]

25kV anything is good, a 25kV Siemens Class 444 would be a fantastic unit. I'm not ashamed to say it is what always springs to mind when I look at the missing bits of electrification on the routes of the Liverpool to Norwich service and wonder when we'll finish colouring it all in.

...and it actually made it into the 2007 RUS as follows:

Option 3: Replace inter-city rolling stock on Anglia Inter-City services
This option tested replacing inter-city sets with more up to date inter-city rolling stock – assumed to be similar to Class 444 currently used on SWT’s long distance services – on the Anglia Inter-City route. Class 444s operate as 5 x 23m units and are configured as low density seating (2 + 2) units to retain standards of passenger comfort. This would increase seated capacity on the peak services by just over 1,000 seats. An alterative would be to deploy IEP (HST 2) sets or similar inter-city standard multiple units. In assessing the value for money of this option the costs of Class 444 rolling stock have been used.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...trategies/greater anglia/great anglia rus.pdf

Obviously back in 2007 they thought the IEP would be an adequate alternative, but I guess that would be thrown out by popular demand...

 

[43096]

There are plans around to deal with this, involving the train doing real time monitoring of passenger numbers and seat reservations, to work out which carriages are least full and which carriages passengers should board at each station en route.

That information, together with train formation (length, location of 1st etc) is communicated to platform PIS systems which indicate through the matrix displays or a colour coding system where each coach will be and where they should stand etc.

The intention is to have customers with reservations standing at the correct door for their booked seats, 1st class passengers at the correct end of the platform, and for passengers in general to be boarding the least full carriage so they can board quickly and reduce dwell times.

That all well and good, but do you actually believe the normals will take the blindest bit of notice? We have all sorts of pointless PA announcements: surfaces are slippery, take care on the escalators, dire warnings about security services removing you luggage and (at St. Pancras) "Theft of passenger property is a priority crime for your local BTP..." (well the BTP shouldn't be nicking stuff from people!). No-one takes the slightest notice of such nonsenses, and other more important announcements because it all merges into one background noise.

 

[trash80]

Probably not, last year i had a train commute for 6 months. Every night i'd see the same people fighting to get onto the train in the crowded area of the platform while i got on easily as i'd moved down the platform to where it was emoty and always got a seat. Beats me why they didn't ever consider moving down the platform...

 

[ExRes]

Are 442s passed for Ryde Pier Head ?

 

[BestWestern]

Are 442s passed for Ryde Pier Head ?

Definitely; I hear there are plans to fit them with 'Road/Rail' kit so they can lift the rail wheels and run on the tarmac through to Newport and Ventnor...

 

[306024]

Definitely; I hear there are plans to fit them with 'Road/Rail' kit so they can lift the rail wheels and run on the tarmac through to Newport and Ventnor...

Won't that interfere with the hoverskirt needed to get them from Portsmouth Harbour to Ryde Pier Head in the first place?

I feel a whole episode of Scrapheap Challenge coming on, give each team a 442 and see what they can make of it.

 

[DerekC]

Some of this is getting way off the point. A thread on "enthusiasts" versus "normals" might be instructive, but this isn't it.

 

[krus_aragon]

I feel a whole episode of Scrapheap Challenge coming on, give each team a 442 and see what they can make of it.

Oh, so very YES. I'll bring the popcorn.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Yep, and TPE can be ruled out because they want 125 mph units. Maybe Scotrail could take them as coaching stock with the HST's? Plug doors do seem to be in fashion with mark 3's these days

Oh god not that again. Someone might actually take it seriously.

I did a post on exactly why Scotrail would not want to use them as coaching stock. Basically they would require so much work as they are non standard. About the only things that would be useful would be the coach bodies....

As much as don't like it the 442s next operator after SN will be Booth's

 

[charley_17/7]

That information, together with train formation (length, location of 1st etc) is communicated to platform PIS systems which indicate through the matrix displays or a colour coding system where each coach will be and where they should stand etc.

The intention is to have customers with reservations standing at the correct door for their booked seats, 1st class passengers at the correct end of the platform, and for passengers in general to be boarding the least full carriage so they can board quickly and reduce dwell times.

Sounds like a slightly more sophisticated version of Intercity's 'Zones', only 20 years later!

IIRC Gold Zone was First Class/luggage/bicycles, blue and purple for Standard.

 

[RobShipway]

Sounds like a slightly more sophisticated version of Intercity's 'Zones', only 20 years later!

IIRC Gold Zone was First Class/luggage/bicycles, blue and purple for Standard.

It is a similar system that has been used in the rest of Europe for the last 20 plus years.

The Class 442's where perfect trains to be doing the route from Waterloo to Bournemouth/Poole/Weymouth route and they are what I call a MidTrain, which is a train that is not a Suburban train that does journeys that last up to an hour and they are not an Inter-City train that have journeys up to 6 or 7 hours, they are a train for journeys that are 2.5 - 3 hours.

The trouble as has been stated prior notes, is that they are 3rd rail only and unless dragged by a class 73 or 33 locomotive cannot be used away from the 3rd rail electrics.

I am beginning to realise as much as I loved travelling on them from Bournemouth into London back in the 1990's, they only place for them is going to be Booth's as Cjmillsnun states. I just hope that one set can be saved to go to somewhere like the Spa Valley Railway.

 

[southern442]

What's wrong with S Stock, if you don't mind me asking?

I like the design and shape of the units, they remind me of a networker, however inside they are way worse than the A stock and D stock, both of which I am fond of.