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Is the section of gwml beteen Paddington and reading the worst maintained line in the country?

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Jamiescott1

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All Didcot stoppers cancelled this evening due to a broken rail.
Last night was my only journey home since 1st December with no delays / cancellations (7 days of disruptions)
 
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All Didcot stoppers cancelled this evening due to a broken rail.
Last night was my only journey home since 1st December with no delays / cancellations (7 days of disruptions)
Believed to be a clamping defect rather than a broken rail (doesn’t excuse all the continued disruption over last few weeks).
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Well the exact cause / sequence of events isn't 100% confirmed, but yes those repairs. Emergency track access was obviously needed to do that which pushed other things back.
RAIB haven't said anything so guess they wont be investigating which is a shame as that is the only way the true facts will ever be revealed. Whilst no doubt ORR will reference it in their wider review they generally don't do specifics.
 

Horizon22

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All Didcot stoppers cancelled this evening due to a broken rail.
Last night was my only journey home since 1st December with no delays / cancellations (7 days of disruptions)

Luckily it wasn't actually broken, but believed to be at first.
 

Scotrail314209

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Services disrupted because of a signalling fault at Southall. It seems to be everyday there’s something new, that isn’t normal surely?

#Southall - A fault with the signalling system in the Southall area is causing disruption to journeys between London Paddington and Heathrow Airport / Reading.
Services may be cancelled, delayed by up to 30 minutes or revised to terminate / start at Reading.
Didcot and Newbury services only running as far as Reading, Cheltenham services calling additionally at Slough in both directions.
Local Didcot Parkway - London Paddington stopping services will operate between Didcot Parkway and Reading only. Be prepared to change trains at Reading.
Newbury - London Paddington services will operate between Newbury and Reading only.
Some Oxford - London Paddington services may be cancelled. The North Cotswolds - London Paddington services run as normal.
Some Cardiff Central - London Paddington services will be cancelled. The Swansea / Carmarthen service run as normal.
Some Cheltenham Spa - London Paddington services will call additionally at Slough in both directions.
 

Horizon22

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Services disrupted because of a signalling fault at Southall. It seems to be everyday there’s something new, that isn’t normal surely?

It isn’t. I’ve never liked the hyperbole of “there’s delays every day” but if you live between Paddington - Reading and travel regularly you might have a case!
 

Sly Old Fox

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Jamiescott1

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Services disrupted because of a signalling fault at Southall. It seems to be everyday there’s something new, that isn’t normal surely?


Didcot and Newbury services only running as far as Reading, Cheltenham services calling additionally at Slough in both directions.

Frustratingly no long distances services are making an additional call at Maidenhead.

I've written to my MP today about the poor reliability of this service, although with a review taking place i doubt much more will come from it.

Tomorrow is my last day of commuting this year and I've over 80 delays of 15 minutes or more this year.
 

Annetts key

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Why has it become so bad seemingly so suddenly? Surely things would gradually get slightly worse?
That's not quite how poor or reduced (lack of) maintenance works. Everything degrades, yes, at slightly different rates.

At first, there is no noticeable increase in failures. This situation can go on for some time. Sometimes years.

But given the amount of infrastructure, there are bound to be some items that are close to failing, cracking or breaking. As time goes on, if nothing substantial is done, more items become close to failing.

With reduced resources, as more time is taken up dealing with failures, less and less time and resources are available for preventative maintenance, or for dealing with currently low priority jobs.

Meanwhile, the overall condition of the infrastructure continues to degrade. Hence the failure rate increases more quickly. If it gets really bad, the failure rate can escalate far faster than people expect.

Weather can of course have an effect. You will get more broken rails when you get cold (freezing) nights. Especially if it's warm durning the day. Rail also affects certain items.

By the time that the company's top management realise how bad it really is, it's often too late. A lot of "damage" has been done (meaning rather more items than expected will need to be replaced long before their otherwise nominal lifespan). To turn it around, you need to spend a lot of money. There is for example, no point in putting in brand new rail if the sleepers, ballast and formation are in a poor condition.

Compare to Railtrack reducing routine rail grinding and the resulting gauge corner cracking problems... BR has fallen into similar traps in the past as well.
 

Taunton

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Another day ... another shambles.

Now I don't go down the GWML part of the Elizabeth Line daily, but honestly cannot recall the last time it all went to plan.

Yesterday, Thursday 14th Dec, another go. I started off fine. However at 12 noon, otherwise quite quiet, when we got to Hayes & Harlington there was what looked like a broken-down Heathrow train over in the bay, and an enormous crowd with substantial baggage now on the westbound platform waiting for the next one, they must have all staggered over the bridge, and the crush actually looked a bit dicey at the bottom of the steps.

Meanwhile, had noticed a Class 800 service stopped on the Up Main, whereupon we pass a whole string of what might have been following it running us on the Up Relief instead. Looking at RTT it then seems that the entire service had deteriorated, Up Main line trains losing 30 minutes into Paddington, thereafter Down trains starting comparably late, and the Liz service mixed in with all this just running as and when.

Look on the computer in the afternoon, Liz Core service now deteriorated to a real "Banana Service" of bus world style, three consecutive Abbey Wood services followed by two Shenfields, etc, and long gaps. I come back in the evening, when hopefully sorted out. But No. At 1800 two consecutive eastbound services at Slough are cancelled, one the GWR semi-fast to Paddington (which is surely becoming the most cancelled service in the country), so train finally arrives all seats taken. Some strange regulating follows, held for some minutes outside Hayes until a Heathrow service is allowed to precede, which being a stopping service means we are then held behind it outside all subsequent stations where we would be nonstop. At least not as bad as on the Mains, where much of the service is still cancelled or grossly late. I also notice while waiting at Slough that what westbounds are running, both Liz and on the Mains, seem to have near-crush standing loads. And despite so much cancelled, what a lot of GWRs in the peak are down to five cars.

Honestly, there must be times when the Controls of both NR and the GWR despair of the day the Purple Trains came to their fiefdom, and wish the confounded things had never been allowed west of Bond Street.
 
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Purple Train

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Honestly, there must be times when the Controls of both NR and the GWR despair of the day the Purple Trains came to their fiefdom, and wish the confounded things had never been allowed west of Bond Street.
I would hazard a guess that there are just as many days when the Control of the Elizabeth line despairs of the day it thought it was a good idea to run on the Great Western...!

When was the last day when no infrastructure faults at all could be reported between Paddington and Reading?
 
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All I know is there is yet another (or the same recurring?) Signal fault at Southall now so that's EVERY day this week the Liz line hasn't been able to give me a clear run to Maidenhead.

I realise that nobody on here likes the hyperbole of Worst Line in the Country etc but even with the stiff competition Trans-penine throws up this month it has to be true of Padd-Reading.

I usually hate the ".......so I'll be taking the car" response but that's exactly what I'll be doing - and hoping the M4 isn't as @#*#@ up as the Liz has been this week.
 

Scotrail314209

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It’s very difficult trying to get from Slough to Paddington today, let the 1051 Elizabeth go as it was very busy, the 1044 ex Cheltenham rolls in completely full and standing, with the 1100 Paddington and 1106 Abbey Wood cancelled.

I don’t even live down here and I can see why people get extremely annoyed and angry with the service, it’s dismal.
 

Horizon22

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Honestly, there must be times when the Controls of both NR and the GWR despair of the day the Purple Trains came to their fiefdom, and wish the confounded things had never been allowed west of Bond Street.

How on earth did you come to the conclusion? I know you appear to have some vendetta against the Elizabeth Line, but things like regulation, contingency plans and the shocking state of the infrastructure are all to do with Network Rail. If anything GWR and the Elizabeth Line are looking in disbelief at the continual problems. You can’t run a metro-type railway with this amount of unreliability. Especially if you compare it to say the NR Anglia route where the Elizabeth line also runs with minimal issues; if there is a fault it is dealt with competently and managed well.

It’s a huge reputational risk as the TfL logo and branding everywhere gives an certain perception of a service yet this is one of the few areas (parts of Overground included), where they are also not responsible for the infrastructure, something every TOC deals with but a different proposition for TfL. But people don’t understand such nuances, so TfL get the flack. And so the Mayor and the DfT and the ORR are all involved. Quite the mess.
 
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Mojo

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ISTR a previous occurrence which RAIB took a few weeks to confirm that they were investigating so we will have to wait and see...
There is also the possibility they are trying to work out what type of investigation this requires. Since there have been at least two full investigations and reports (Kentish Town and Lewisham) that I can think of, it may be that they are assessing the initial evidence to determine whether a safety digest, or indeed no investigation, may be more appropriate.
 

NSEWonderer

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I wouldn't say faults are dealt with competently and managed well from a first person point of the Elizabeth Line and that from seeing Contingency plans that I've read up myself basically wasting away. But agreed most of the issues that the Elizabeth Line gets blamed for are Network Rail issues when it comes to the West. The Thursday incident with passengers stranded and emergency egressing was actually a Factor of Network Rail and GWR but the day after only the Elizabeth Line bore the brunt of it in the Press.
 

Mojo

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As soon as the signal failure at Southall was cleared from the TfL status board, this was replaced with minor delays on the western section for a track fault at Taplow.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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I recall a period like this about 10 years ago when every single day there seemed to be a track circuit failure between Didcot and Swindon with the job stopped for a couple of hours and then a wrecked evening peak. The current infrastructure problems / signal failure / *insert today’s fiasco* is just in a much, much worse area in terms of traffic density and disruption. NR have really taken their eye off the ball since the EL opened, its almost as if they’ve forgotten the railway still needed to run well once all the shiny new toys were opened.
 

FGW_DID

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I recall a period like this about 10 years ago when every single day there seemed to be a track circuit failure between Didcot and Swindon with the job stopped for a couple of hours and then a wrecked evening peak. The current infrastructure problems / signal failure / *insert today’s fiasco* is just in a much, much worse area in terms of traffic density and disruption. NR have really taken their eye off the ball since the EL opened, it’s greealmost as if they’ve forgotten the railway still needed to run well once all the shiny new toys were opened.

Agree, I’ve been working on the GWML for the last 12 years. Infrastructure wise, there’s always been failures with signals, points, axle counters (and before those - track circuit failures) plus for the last 6(?) years or so there is the OLE to contend with.
I think, now, it’s just that even simple failures are having a greater impact plus I feel even the smallest failures are being pounced on more, on social media and with that there can be a certain element of hyperbole from some commentators!
Reaction wise I do also think the traffic density is such that even the smallest failure now necessitates the quicker implementation of one of the many contingency plans than they used to.
 

JN114

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Not to second guess the ORR report, but the problems along this particular stretch of line are a perfect storm of factors -

- Maintenance
- Staffing Levels (both NR and TOC)
- Access both for routine maintenance and rectification of issues
- Reliability of technologies implemented
- Aging of critical assets
- Tighter/less resilient timetabling
- Staff Morale

Things are getting worse in all of these areas, and as they get worse the problems become bigger and more frequent.

I opined a year or so ago that we were at the start of what was going to become a very difficult period for the industry; and I to this day stand by that. The government of today has less than zero interest in paying a penny into fixing any of the industry’s problems - as evidenced by reducing NR’s budget going forward; refusing to settle industrial disputes. All they care about is token platitudes that may make them broadly more electable in marginal constituencies.

The GWML today is a realtime manifestation of what managed decline looks like. Infrastructure and Fleets absolutely creaking at the seams through overwork. Less than a dozen front line response staff available to attend when 8 stranded trains with more than 4000 passengers need evacuating. Weeks to align staffing and access to fix some wet beds, or replace a set of points. A timetable so complex - particularly with regard to crewing trains - it is simply not recoverable when things go wrong.

Meanwhile we hammer the infrastructure harder and harder with more trains than have ever run over some of these sections. And all the above weaknesses being highlighted time and again by a cadre of experienced railway workers to industry leaders and politicians who simply do not want to hear what is being said. The work from home age has severed their only contact with the customers they purport to serve, and now they don’t see the impact of their decision making first hand; they read about it in logs and reports and it loses all impact.

Whilst m’colleague above does raise the point that the age of social media does shine a brighter spotlight on it than maybe would have been in the past; it has never been nearly this bad in my career. And I fear it still has a lot worse to come.
 

Horizon22

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Not to second guess the ORR report, but the problems along this particular stretch of line are a perfect storm of factors -

- Maintenance
- Staffing Levels (both NR and TOC)
- Access both for routine maintenance and rectification of issues
- Reliability of technologies implemented
- Aging of critical assets
- Tighter/less resilient timetabling
- Staff Morale

Things are getting worse in all of these areas, and as they get worse the problems become bigger and more frequent.

I opined a year or so ago that we were at the start of what was going to become a very difficult period for the industry; and I to this day stand by that. The government of today has less than zero interest in paying a penny into fixing any of the industry’s problems - as evidenced by reducing NR’s budget going forward; refusing to settle industrial disputes. All they care about is token platitudes that may make them broadly more electable in marginal constituencies.

The GWML today is a realtime manifestation of what managed decline looks like. Infrastructure and Fleets absolutely creaking at the seams through overwork. Less than a dozen front line response staff available to attend when 8 stranded trains with more than 4000 passengers need evacuating. Weeks to align staffing and access to fix some wet beds, or replace a set of points. A timetable so complex - particularly with regard to crewing trains - it is simply not recoverable when things go wrong.

Meanwhile we hammer the infrastructure harder and harder with more trains than have ever run over some of these sections. And all the above weaknesses being highlighted time and again by a cadre of experienced railway workers to industry leaders and politicians who simply do not want to hear what is being said. The work from home age has severed their only contact with the customers they purport to serve, and now they don’t see the impact of their decision making first hand; they read about it in logs and reports and it loses all impact.

Whilst m’colleague above does raise the point that the age of social media does shine a brighter spotlight on it than maybe would have been in the past; it has never been nearly this bad in my career. And I fear it still has a lot worse to come.

All very excellent points. I think there really was a lack of understanding of what was going to be required from the infrastructure on a ongoing basis after the full Elizabeth line timetable (and GWR has also intensified) and despite money being spent, that was all in preparation for the event, not the maintenance afterwards. On the other hand NR Anglia realised this & had the benefit of experience in that Liverpool Street - Shenfield service has been one of the most intensive metro railway routes for decades.

Some of the issues are also exponential with a more intense timetable; a smaller issue now leads to a bigger, wider impact.
 

ChiefPlanner

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All very excellent points. I think there really was a lack of understanding of what was going to be required from the infrastructure on a ongoing basis after the full Elizabeth line timetable (and GWR has also intensified) and despite money being spent, that was all in preparation for the event, not the maintenance afterwards. On the other hand NR Anglia realised this & had the benefit of experience in that Liverpool Street - Shenfield service has been one of the most intensive metro railway routes for decades.

Indeed - something like 18 tph on the "E" line for decades.......
 

Bald Rick

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All very excellent points. I think there really was a lack of understanding of what was going to be required from the infrastructure on a ongoing basis after the full Elizabeth line timetable (and GWR has also intensified) and despite money being spent, that was all in preparation for the event, not the maintenance afterwards. On the other hand NR Anglia realised this & had the benefit of experience in that Liverpool Street - Shenfield service has been one of the most intensive metro railway routes for decades.

Sort of.

In Anglia, traffic levels have barely changed due to the EL, and it is effectively two separate railways - Mains for GA & Freight, and Electrics for MTR.

On the Western, the EL service has significantly increased (both service levels and number of vehicles) and whilst GWR has the run of the main lines, the EL also shares the Reliefs with freight - lots of it.

The access issue for maintenance certainly needs looking at.
 

The Planner

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Sort of.

In Anglia, traffic levels have barely changed due to the EL, and it is effectively two separate railways - Mains for GA & Freight, and Electrics for MTR.

On the Western, the EL service has significantly increased (both service levels and number of vehicles) and whilst GWR has the run of the main lines, the EL also shares the Reliefs with freight - lots of it.

The access issue for maintenance certainly needs looking at.
That will be fun, it took a dispute for Western to get some extra section 4 time down there as it is.
 

penguin8967

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Another day, another issue... signalling problem in the Southall area, currently on 1L66 and picked up almost 20 mins of delay between Reading and Paddington
 

Horizon22

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That will be fun, it took a dispute for Western to get some extra section 4 time down there as it is.

Frankly I think all the TOCs would agree at this point.

There have been quite a lot of planned closures but these have been Relief lines and for HS2 access more than anything else. The Main lines probably need more regular closures so there’s still a 2-track railway but more inspection there.

Need to go the whole hog and do some more closures with GWR terminating Reading and Elizabeth line terminating Ealing Broadway (as opposed to both) on a few weekends for more intensive work.
 

Taunton

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Sort of.

In Anglia, traffic levels have barely changed due to the EL, and it is effectively two separate railways - Mains for GA & Freight, and Electrics for MTR.

On the Western, the EL service has significantly increased (both service levels and number of vehicles) and whilst GWR has the run of the main lines, the EL also shares the Reliefs with freight - lots of it.
And, as last Thursday showed, the main line GWR service having to divert onto the reliefs as well.

But it's not all The Liz let down by NR. In the Thursday run I described above, the broken-down Heathrow bound Liz train in the bay at Hayes & Harlington, with a considerable airport-bound trainload plus their heavy baggage, on one of Heathrow's busiest days of the year, having to stagger over the footbridge for a following service (I hope they all got in the next one), is surely a Liz issue. Likewise the PA announcement when I returned in the evening about the eastbound cancellation said, repeatedly, "Due to a previous signalling fault ON THE TRAIN". This is of course the very longstanding and seemingly intractable issue of signal-to-train non-communication, almost always at the changeover point.
 
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