Is there a legal requirement to have a driving licence to drive a tram.

[stadler]

Out of interest does anyone know if there is actually a legal requirement to have a driving licence to drive a tram? I know tram companies might have their own policies that require it but what i am trying to find out is if it is actually a legal requirement?

To drive a train on the mainline railway you do not require a driving licence. I know train drivers who do not have a driving licence and have never had a driving licence and have never driven a road vehicle in their life. So on the mainline railway it is definitely not required. But with trams it is a more grey area.

However i have seen job adverts for trams that say you must have a valid driving licence. So it seems like the tram companies (or some of them at least) require you to have one but it is not clear if this is their own policy or a legal requirement.

It is worth pointing out that all driving licences in the UK have no tram category. There are categories for many vehicles but nothing for trams. So if it was a law then it is unclear what category licence that you would need. This along with the fact that a tram is not really a road vehicle makes me think that a driving licence is not legally required. Also a tram is basically just a train that can also run on tracks that are on roads. So having a driving licence would not really help you drive a tram and it is so different from a motor vehicle.

So just wondering if anyone knows if any such legal requirement exists? Or is it simply up to the tram companies to decide if they want their drivers to have one?

 

[hexagon789]

Out of interest does anyone know if there is actually a legal requirement to have a driving licence to drive a tram? I know tram companies might have their own policies that require it but what i am trying to find out is if it is actually a legal requirement?

To drive a train on the mainline railway you do not require a driving licence. I know train drivers who do not have a driving licence and have never had a driving licence and have never driven a road vehicle in their life. So on the mainline railway it is definitely not required. But with trams it is a more grey area.

However i have seen job adverts for trams that say you must have a valid driving licence. So it seems like the tram companies (or some of them at least) require you to have one but it is not clear if this is their own policy or a legal requirement.

It is worth pointing out that all driving licences in the UK have no tram category. There are categories for many vehicles but nothing for trams. So if it was a law then it is unclear what category licence that you would need. This along with the fact that a tram is not really a road vehicle makes me think that a driving licence is not legally required. Also a tram is basically just a train that can also run on tracks that are on roads. So having a driving licence would not really help you drive a tram and it is so different from a motor vehicle.

So just wondering if anyone knows if any such legal requirement exists? Or is it simply up to the tram companies to decide if they want their drivers to have one?

Yes, unless you were driving Trams before 1st July 1992, then a minimum Cat B licence is needed. It's in the Motor Vehicles Licensing Regulations 1999, s.82.

Modification Regulations also extend section 87 of RTA so as to make it necessary for
the driver of a tramcar to possess a driving licence that authorises him or her to drive a
motor vehicle in category B, within the meaning of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences)
Regulations 1999 (S.I.1999/2864), with a saving for persons who were already driving
tramcars during the year prior to 1 July 1992.

My underlining.

 

[stadler]

Yes, unless you were driving Trams before 1st July 1992, then a minimum Cat B licence is needed. It's in the Motor Vehicles Licensing Regulations 1999, s.82.



My underlining.

Thank you for the information. Much appreciated. That answers my question. That is interesting they have an exemption for those who started driving before 1992 though.

Do you know if these laws only apply on the parts of tramways where trams run on roads or do they apply everywhere? So could someone without a driving licence still drive trams on the segregated railway style sections but just not on the road sections?

 

[hexagon789]

Thank you for the information. Much appreciated. That answers my question. That is interesting they have an exemption for those who started driving before 1992 though.

Do you know if these laws only apply on the parts of tramways where trams run on roads or do they apply everywhere? So could someone without a driving licence still drive trams on the segregated railway style sections but just not on the road sections?

Just on the bits where Trams run on the road, but it would seem a bit inflexible to have some drivers who could only drive on segregated sections - interesting to hear whether any systems do in fact have such drivers, I'd personally be surprised if so but stranger things happen...

 

[plugwash]

Thank you for the information. Much appreciated. That answers my question. That is interesting they have an exemption for those who started driving before 1992 though.

1992 is the year the first "second generation tramway", the manchester metrolink opened.

My understanging is that in the "first generation" days, driving a tram did not require a driving license but when the "second generation" trams were introduced it was decided a driving license would be required. The exception allowed existing drivers in blackpool (the only surviving first-generation tramway) to continue even if they never had a driving license.

 

[etr221]

Just on the bits where Trams run on the road, but it would seem a bit inflexible to have some drivers who could only drive on segregated sections - interesting to hear whether any systems do in fact have such drivers, I'd personally be surprised if so but stranger things happen...

Are there any tram systems which are completely segregated, without any section on the (public) road? Is a 'level crossing' (where the tramway just crosses the road) 'running on the road' within any legal (or equivalent)

1992 is the year the first "second generation tramway", the manchester metrolink opened.

Were there any tram drivers who started without having a driving licence after 1992, but before before the requirement came in in 1999? (if that is when it did - it doesn't seem to be in the Motor Vehicles Licensing Regulations 1999, s.82 (which refers to N.I. licences).

 

[duffield]

Are there any tram systems which are completely segregated, without any section on the (public) road? Is a 'level crossing' (where the tramway just crosses the road) 'running on the road' within any legal (or equivalent)

...

I'd guess the closest is the Newcastle Metro, no on-street running - but it seems to be classed as light rail, and definitely not as a tram system by most people. There have been proposals to add street running sections, but they have never come to fruition so far. That does raise the question of whether the system would suddenly be magically re-categorised by "the consensus" as a tram system if it gained such a section.

 

[Gostav]

I'd guess the closest is the Newcastle Metro, no on-street running - but it seems to be classed as light rail, and definitely not as a tram system by most people. There have been proposals to add street running sections, but they have never come to fruition so far. That does raise the question of whether the system would suddenly be magically re-categorised by "the consensus" as a tram system if it gained such a section.

Maybe it would be like a tram-train system, the street running section as tramway and other part still as light rail.

 

[plugwash]

Just on the bits where Trams run on the road,

Does "run on the road" here mean literally sharing a lane with road traffic? or does it include everywhere that trams mingle with pedestrians and/or cross roads with only street lights rather than full level crossings?

The Manchester Metrolink in particular has a LOT more of the latter than the former. There are many metrolink routes that avoid the former, but I don't think any metrolink route avoids the latter.

 

[Roger1973]

A couple of angles -

It's not uncommon for people who are already doing something before a licensing regime comes in to get 'grandfather rights' to continue doing it (as in the pre 1992 tram drivers) - I understand that when car driving tests came in (1930s?) people who already held driving licences were not required to take / pass a test.

I have a vague memory of the retirement of the last Blackpool tram driver who'd never held a car or bus driving licence being reported some time maybe in the late 90s / early 00's - I think he had transferred from Leeds or Sheffield or somewhere when they got rid of trams.

I also think that at one time, you could hold a PSV (as then was) bus driving licence without having a car licence - you were certainly allowed to do training and take a PSV test without having held a car licence (some conductors who got re-trained were in this category, and a generation before, potentially tram drivers who re-trained on buses.) I've seen conflicting accounts as to whether this got you a car licence or not. I think this changed in the early 1990s when it became PCV licence / category D on your regular driving licence and you had to hold a car licence before you could get provisional PCV entitlement.

I believe at least some of the preserved tramways - who all operate on private land not the public highway - require potential tram drivers to hold a car driving licence before they start training. I'm not sure if this is a policy decision they have made, or a legal requirement.

 

[Elwyn]

A couple of angles -

It's not uncommon for people who are already doing something before a licensing regime comes in to get 'grandfather rights' to continue doing it (as in the pre 1992 tram drivers) - I understand that when car driving tests came in (1930s?) people who already held driving licences were not required to take / pass a test.

1935 in GB. 1964 in Northern Ireland. I know several people in NI today who have never taken a driving test, having got their licences before 1964.

 

[bluegoblin7]

A couple of angles -

It's not uncommon for people who are already doing something before a licensing regime comes in to get 'grandfather rights' to continue doing it (as in the pre 1992 tram drivers) - I understand that when car driving tests came in (1930s?) people who already held driving licences were not required to take / pass a test.

I have a vague memory of the retirement of the last Blackpool tram driver who'd never held a car or bus driving licence being reported some time maybe in the late 90s / early 00's - I think he had transferred from Leeds or Sheffield or somewhere when they got rid of trams.

I also think that at one time, you could hold a PSV (as then was) bus driving licence without having a car licence - you were certainly allowed to do training and take a PSV test without having held a car licence (some conductors who got re-trained were in this category, and a generation before, potentially tram drivers who re-trained on buses.) I've seen conflicting accounts as to whether this got you a car licence or not. I think this changed in the early 1990s when it became PCV licence / category D on your regular driving licence and you had to hold a car licence before you could get provisional PCV entitlement.

I believe at least some of the preserved tramways - who all operate on private land not the public highway - require potential tram drivers to hold a car driving licence before they start training. I'm not sure if this is a policy decision they have made, or a legal requirement.

All of the standard gauge preserved tramways require car licenses - I can’t remember the case for Seaton, and Black Country is unlikely to operate again. In all cases it is a combination of insurance purposes and crossing public rights of way.