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Is there a website which shows all permitted routes on a map by entering a pair of stations?

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miklcct

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As title. This can be useful to check if the route I'm taking is permitted on an any permitted ticket. The maps on National Rail Enquiries have never worked for me.
 
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Watershed

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Yes there is, but if the link were made publicly accessible, it would make it extremely easy for Pricing Managers to discover and close anomalies.

Be careful what you wish for.
 
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yorkie

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As title. This can be useful to check if the route I'm taking is permitted on an any permitted ticket. The maps on National Rail Enquiries have never worked for me.
There is, however it would be extremely useful for pricing managers to detect anomalies and to enable them to remove useful permitted routes that they deem too generous.
 

yorkie

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Did anyone ever come up with a replacement for Clive's On-line Routing Engine?
Yes; if anyone asks me at a fares workshop (or other forum event) I will look at putting them in touch with the creator :)

I don't think the creator would want to make their work available for general use, and I can understand why; it could cause their server to have high demands placed on it, and the results could be used by pricing managers to reduce the permitted routes available.
 

etr221

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The concept that these (on-line routing engine, and map of permitted routes) should not be made generally available is very revealing as to how flawed the railway fare system is, in various ways:
  1. In that they are considered to be needed
  2. In them not being available from an 'official' source
  3. In the suggestion that pricing managers are unaware of what is permitted (if there are excessively generous routes, that it is their job to remove, they should not need such an 'unofficial' source to identify them, but readily able to do so anyway)
And another revelation of the flaws is that this forum sees the need to run fares workshops...
 

Ken_Ilworth

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All of those 'flaws' can result in good-value fares for those willing to put in the effort to find them. Selfishly, I'm ok with the status quo. I'm sure if many of those 'flaws' were removed, then I personally would pay higher fares
 

ainsworth74

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In the suggestion that pricing managers are unaware of what is permitted (if there are excessively generous routes, that it is their job to remove, they should not need such an 'unofficial' source to identify them, but readily able to do so anyway)

It's long surprised me (well, to be fair, not anymore but when I was newer to this interest some years ago!) at how often it seems that external third-parties have managed to push the envelope in terms of tech far further and better than anything the industry has managed internally (or via their own contractors).
 

Haywain

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It's long surprised me (well, to be fair, not anymore but when I was newer to this interest some years ago!) at how often it seems that external third-parties have managed to push the envelope in terms of tech far further and better than anything the industry has managed internally (or via their own contractors).
In many cases the third party developers are doing these things as a hobby or a personal challenge for free. The industry would have to pay for what are actually very niche products in many cases.
 

yorkie

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The concept that these (on-line routing engine, and map of permitted routes) should not be made generally available is very revealing as to how flawed the railway fare system is, in various ways:
  1. In that they are considered to be needed
  2. In them not being available from an 'official' source
  3. In the suggestion that pricing managers are unaware of what is permitted (if there are excessively generous routes, that it is their job to remove, they should not need such an 'unofficial' source to identify them, but readily able to do so anyway)
And another revelation of the flaws is that this forum sees the need to run fares workshops...
Feel free to post your proposals for how to resolve this by creating a thread in the relevant forum section, and feel free to link to it from this thread :)
 

Alfonso

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The concept that these (on-line routing engine, and map of permitted routes) should not be made generally available is very revealing as to how flawed the railway fare system is, in various ways:
  1. In that they are considered to be needed
  2. In them not being available from an 'official' source
  3. In the suggestion that pricing managers are unaware of what is permitted (if there are excessively generous routes, that it is their job to remove, they should not need such an 'unofficial' source to identify them, but readily able to do so anyway)
And another revelation of the flaws is that this forum sees the need to run fares workshops...
Thing is, there's no need to go to a fares workshop for the vast majority of the traveling public. The system in general works pretty well. However, the workshops are great for those of us who like understanding how things work, want to do odd things like travel on lots of trains or unusual routes etc that don't fit with online planners designed to get normals conveniently from A to B. They can also flag up interesting quirks and foibles of the system, many of which again are not of much use to most people.
 

yorksrob

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The concept that these (on-line routing engine, and map of permitted routes) should not be made generally available is very revealing as to how flawed the railway fare system is, in various ways:
  1. In that they are considered to be needed
  2. In them not being available from an 'official' source
  3. In the suggestion that pricing managers are unaware of what is permitted (if there are excessively generous routes, that it is their job to remove, they should not need such an 'unofficial' source to identify them, but readily able to do so anyway)
And another revelation of the flaws is that this forum sees the need to run fares workshops...

The flaw is in the ethos of some railway companies which seem overly keen to restrict passengers options of travel and move away from concept of allowing reasonable routes.
 

nlogax

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Yes; if anyone asks me at a fares workshop (or other forum event) I will look at putting them in touch with the creator :)

I don't think the creator would want to make their work available for general use, and I can understand why; it could cause their server to have high demands placed on it, and the results could be used by pricing managers to reduce the permitted routes available.

Thanks for this and fully understood :) Admittedly I'm not really the intended audience for a fares workshop, my interest stems from mere curiosity as to the machinations and quirks of how routing works. Back to the routing guide for me..
 

Doctor Fegg

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In many cases the third party developers are doing these things as a hobby or a personal challenge for free. The industry would have to pay for what are actually very niche products in many cases.

1.75 billion rail journeys are made every year in the UK. You don't need to capture more than a tiny, tiny fraction of those journeys to recoup the cost of a Hetzner box and a motivated developer.

(I write as someone who has built a cycling route-planner which generates significantly better routes than the mighty Google manages, and now earns a useful income from it, including white-labelling it for county councils.)
 

Rover

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Yes; if anyone asks me at a fares workshop (or other forum event) I will look at putting them in touch with the creator :)
Yorkie, are you concerned that one day a pricing manager may turn up at one of your fares workshops incognito and get a few "ideas"?
 
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