ISIL and general Islamic matters in Europe, Syria, Iraq and North Africa

[Johnuk123]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/isis-threatens-twitter-founder-jack-dorsey-with-death

Twitter founder Jack Dorsey has been threatened with death because the company blocks ISIS social media accounts,

The terrorists are seeking American supporters which are reckoned to be in the tens of thousands to kill any employees of Twitter.
I imagine Twitter over here will need to beef up security somewhat.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The current campaign by ISIL to destroy ancient Assyrian buildings and artifacts is given the same Wahaabist reason as that given by the Taleban in 2001 when they used many methods to destroy the Buddhas of Bamiyan.

 

[Johnuk123]

http://http://www.newsweek.com/better-jihadis-die-abroad-come-home-says-dutch-pm-311922

Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte courted controversy in a TV debate last night by saying it would be better if jihadis who leave to fight in Syria died there rather than return to the country. But today a spokesperson for his party went even further, saying that it would be better for the Dutch armed forces, who are participating the the fight against ISIS, to kill their fellow citizens rather than allow them to return home where they might commit acts of terror.

Bit of a different outlook in Holland compared to here where we are supposed to view Jihadists as poor misguided folk who always did errands for their gran and passed all their exams.

The 3 young women who all had Facebook accounts linked to the most vile and disgusting barbarism imaginable yet today we have their solicitor calling for our police to apologise for not sending a letter to their parents.

No wonder we're seen as so pathetically weak by home-grown Islamic extremists who we indulge and give every opportunity to rubbish this country on tv. I'm thinking specifically about Asim Qureshi of the now hugely discredited Cage who last week described Jihadi Mo as a "beautiful young man".
He also refuses to condem FGM, stoning to death of women, jews descended from pigs and homosexuals being "evil".

Other countries must look on with disbelief when our broadcasters give prime air time of an hour for this man to spout his extreme views.

 

[muz379]

http://http://www.newsweek.com/better-jihadis-die-abroad-come-home-says-dutch-pm-311922



Bit of a different outlook in Holland compared to here where we are supposed to view Jihadists as poor misguided folk who always did errands for their gran and passed all their exams.

The 3 young women who all had Facebook accounts linked to the most vile and disgusting barbarism imaginable yet today we have their solicitor calling for our police to apologise for not sending a letter to their parents.

Personally I do feel as if the three school girls who went missing are indeed the poor misguided you speak of and have been radicalized . at 15 and 16 they are going to be very impressionable and easy for groups like ISIS to radicalize . Of course some of the blame for their disappearance does land at the door of their parents because they should have been monitoring their online activities and having sensible conversations with their children about events in the middle east and how what is being carried out there in the name of Islam is actually offensive to true Muslims .

As for the MET being called to apologize . I do think they made a complete balls up of the press releases about this . Claiming the parents of the girls knew that one of the girls friends had already fled to Syria when in fact that was later found out not to be the case is pointing the finger and it is only right that when these parents have lost their daughters in such circumstances it is only right an apology should be issued for the inaccuracy of such press releases . Sure if the police said something untrue about you , particularly during such a distressing time in your life you would want an apology

I find your use of language in describing them as "young women" interesting and have a hunch that if this was 15 and 16 year old white folk that where doing something wrong perhaps you might use different language and describe them as "school kids"

No wonder we're seen as so pathetically weak by home-grown Islamic extremists who we indulge and give every opportunity to rubbish this country on tv. I'm thinking specifically about Asim Qureshi of the now hugely discredited Cage who last week described Jihadi Mo as a "beautiful young man".
He also refuses to condem FGM, stoning to death of women, jews descended from pigs and homosexuals being "evil".

Other countries must look on with disbelief when our broadcasters give prime air time of an hour for this man to spout his extreme views.

Given that as you rightly pointed out Cage is now hugely discredited and the latest development has seen their charity backers pull their funding I dont see how you can think that we indulge these people . Every news piece I have read has been from a negative angle (rightly so before you think im implying otherwise), yes it has reported what his extreme views are just as is the case when he is on TV and is shown spouting them but they have not glamorized or made his views out to be acceptable . The old phrase of "Give someone enough rope and he'll hang himself" rings particularly true in my view here because now everybody knows what cage is and what it and Mr Qureshi stands for . As a result of that pressure has been put on its financial backers to withdraw their funding which inflicts a massive blow to the prospect of continued existence of this organization . Without exposing this man for what he is many would have continued ignorant to what this organization stands for . Prior to last weeks revelation that this man had actually met Mr Enwazi how many people had actually heard of Cage , let alone what this man stands for ? It was like the time they let Nick Griffin , or Russel Brand on question time , they hung themselves out to dry . These people aren't given enough coverage in my view

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I find your use of language in describing them as "young women" interesting and have a hunch that if this was 15 and 16 year old white folk that where doing something wrong perhaps you might use different language and describe them as "school kids"

When one reads of the age of 9 being the accepted age for the onset of puberty in girls in certain Islamic teaching, then 15 and 16 are ages well past that age.

With regard to "school kids", again I make reference to certain Islamic beliefs that abhor the schooling of girls, such as that held by the Pakistani Taleban and Boko Haram to give two examples.

 

[St Rollox]

The current campaign by ISIL to destroy ancient Assyrian buildings and artifacts is given the same Wahaabist reason as that given by the Taleban in 2001 when they used many methods to destroy the Buddhas of Bamiyan.

Would that be the same Wahaabist sect that David Cameron and the British Royal family fall over each other to interact with in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Would that be the same Wahaabist sect that David Cameron and the British Royal family fall over each other to interact with in Saudi Arabia.

Indeed so. The three-letter word of OIL and its assorted uses has much to answer for, unfortunately.

 

[St Rollox]

Indeed so. The three-letter word of OIL and its assorted uses has much to answer for, unfortunately.

What's the unfortunate part?
That we rely on OIL or that the British Establishment are as big a part of the problem as their chums in the Saudi royal family.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What's the unfortunate part?
That we rely on OIL or that the British Establishment are big a part of the problem as their chums in the Saudi royal family.

I think that there has been a straying away from the subject matter of the thread, unless of course you are making reference to the ruling royal family over here in the Middle Ages being responsible for what we would now view with horror in matters such as burning at the stake and being hung, drawn and quartered.

With regard to the destruction of great religious buildings, again something that would be decried these days, was it not a certain monarch over here who presided over such destruction of great monuments?
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Another point that has been made in recent days is that ISIL et al are using eschatology as part of their persuasion to attract young and impressionable Muslims to their cause.

 

[Qwerty133]

3 teenage boys have been returned to the UK and detained by Scotland yard under terrorism offences. 2 aged 17 and on aged 19. unlike those 'vulnerable' girls these boys are being treated as they should be as terroists. Yet again this country proving that sexism is allive and well, as long as it agaisnt males.
For the avoidance of doubt, like those girls I would have preffered these boys to have got to Syria and hopefully have been killed, protecting our country frlm them, while saving the cost of a trial.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

3 teenage boys have been returned to the UK and detained by Scotland yard under terrorism offences. 2 aged 17 and on aged 19. Unlike those 'vulnerable' girls these boys are being treated as they should be as terrorists.

How were they "returned" and by whom?

 

[Qwerty133]

From the BBC

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Three teenagers who were stopped from travelling to Syria from Turkey have been flown back to the UK and arrested, Scotland Yard has said.

Two boys aged 17 from north-west London and a man aged 19 were returned to the UK on Saturday night, the Met said.

They have been arrested on suspicion of preparing terrorist acts and are being held at a police station in London.

They were reported missing on Friday and were detained after UK police alerted Turkish officials, it added.

Scotland Yard said counter-terrorism officers had initially been made aware that the two 17-year-old boys had gone missing and were believed to be travelling to Syria.

Enquiries revealed they had travelled with a third man, police added.

"Officers alerted the Turkish authorities who were able to intercept all three males, preventing travel to Syria. They remain in detention in Turkey," a police spokesman added.

They were returned to the UK at about 23:10 GMT on Saturday and were arrested by counter-terrorism officers.

BBC correspondent Andy Moore said the development comes after "recriminations" between UK police and Turkish officials following the disappearance of three London schoolgirls.

Shamima Begum, Amira Abase, both 15, and Kadiza Sultana, 16 - all from London - took flights to Istanbul last month, from where it is feared they travelled to join Islamic State militants in Syria.

 

[Johnuk123]

How were they "returned" and by whom?

http://news.sky.com/story/1445468/british-teenage-terror-suspects-back-in-uk

Three British teenagers detained in Turkey as they allegedly tried to travel to Syria to join the terror group Islamic State, are back in the UK.

The group, a 19-year-old male and two boys aged 17, are being held at a central London police station after being arrested on suspicion of preparing terrorist acts, said Scotland Yard.

Keith Vaz saying "Clearly this flight of young people to Turkey in order to go to Syria is on a much larger scale than we envisaged." is surely a massive understatement.

 

[fowler9]

http://news.sky.com/story/1445468/british-teenage-terror-suspects-back-in-uk



Keith Vaz saying "Clearly this flight of young people to Turkey in order to go to Syria is on a much larger scale than we envisaged." is surely a massive understatement.

Or clearly we hear about it more through modern media. UKIP can stop worrying about much immigration because everyone will just be heading straight for Turkey to get in to Syria.

 

[muz379]

When one reads of the age of 9 being the accepted age for the onset of puberty in girls in certain Islamic teaching, then 15 and 16 are ages well past that age.

With regard to "school kids", again I make reference to certain Islamic beliefs that abhor the schooling of girls, such as that held by the Pakistani Taleban and Boko Haram to give two examples.

Whilst some Muslims to take very extreme and literal interpretations of their scriptures these where 15 & 16 year old girls brought up and schooled in a western democracy .

As I said some people would call them young women but then when a 15 year old white girl goes missing they are described as a girl or a child .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst some Muslims to take very extreme and literal interpretations of their scriptures these where 15 & 16 year old girls brought up and schooled in a western democracy .

The very fact that these girls, brought up and educated under the British democratic system, chose to go where they knew that strict Wahaabist doctrine was de rigeur, shows that living in a democracy is not what they sought.
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3 teenage boys have been returned to the UK and detained by Scotland yard under terrorism offences. 2 aged 17 and on aged 19.

Is it true that all these three youths have now been granted bail?

 

[Oswyntail]

The very fact that these girls, brought up and educated under the British democratic system, chose to go where they knew that strict Wahaabist doctrine was de rigeur, shows that living in a democracy is not what they sought.....

More relevant, I think, is their age. I knew people who, at that age, ran off to fight the fascists in S. America. I suspect the difference between these girls and the young devotees of Che Guevara of olden times is simply the ease of travel. Young idealists have never been rational.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Is it true that all these three youths have now been granted bail?

BBC News says yes. Presumably their passports have been confiscated.

More relevant, I think, is their age. I knew people who, at that age, ran off to fight the fascists in S. America. I suspect the difference between these girls and the young devotees of Che Guevara of olden times is simply the ease of travel. Young idealists have never been rational.

Plenty of young anarchists travelled to Spain as well during the Civil War. I don't know what the policies were for these people if they returned to Britain.

 

[St Rollox]

Many of those on the "Left" who took part in the Spain Civil War in 1936 were banned from joining the British Army when World War 2 was declared in 1939.
Seems the powers that be were wary of of letting "commies" abroad in the forces.
No problem of course for all sorts of ex nazis and their chums living out there lives in the UK after the war.
Btw, the UK even at this time will have residents living here that fought in all types of wars.
I worked with a chap who fought in the Biafran war in the 60s.
Another that was in Vietnam with the New Zealand forces.
How many Jewish residents have did a stint with the IDF?
More than a few i bet.

 

[ainsworth74]

There is surely a difference between serving in the recognised armed forces of a recognised nation state like Israel or New Zealand and the likes of ISIS or an anarchist brigade in the Spanish Civil War?

 

[St Rollox]

There is surely a difference between serving in the recognised armed forces of a recognised nation state like Israel or New Zealand and the likes of ISIS or an anarchist brigade in the Spanish Civil War?

So Churchill was wrong then to help resistance groups across Europe.
Interesting take on history.

 

[muz379]

The very fact that these girls, brought up and educated under the British democratic system, chose to go where they knew that strict Wahaabist doctrine was de rigeur, shows that living in a democracy is not what they sought.

Not entirely relevant or true , at 15 & 16 they would have no doubt been impressionable and eager to please much like girls of that age joining street gangs in major cities . I dont suspect it would have been difficult for ISIS recruiters to groom them .

 

[ainsworth74]

So Churchill was wrong then to help resistance groups across Europe.
Interesting take on history.

Eh? Where did you get that from? Seriously what are your talking about?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not entirely relevant or true , at 15 & 16 they would have no doubt been impressionable and eager to please much like girls of that age joining street gangs in major cities . I dont suspect it would have been difficult for ISIS recruiters to groom them .

These girls who went to Syria were very high educational achievers whereas the girls joining street gangs in major cities are normally the from low end of the educational scale who see in gang culture a chance to improve their status in local society.

 

[Oswyntail]

These girls who went to Syria were very high educational achievers whereas the girls joining street gangs in major cities are normally the from low end of the educational scale who see in gang culture a chance to improve their status in local society.

But equally impressionable young, over-romanticising, idealists - just as vulnerable to recruitment

 

[St Rollox]

Eh? Where did you get that from? Seriously what are your talking about?

Think there's is a difference between a UK passport leaving to join say the IDF for say two years and somebody leaving to fight Franco during the 1930s.
The Spanish Civil War was a prelude to WW2 yet the government of the time banned people from going to Spain.
Yet the same UK government was running round trying to help mostly communist resistance groups all over Europe within a couple of years.
Maybe the UK should have helped a Nation State called Spain and it's regular army during the Spanish Civil War.
If a UK resident commits a war crime fighting for another nation state somewhere like Gaza, how would we ever know.
Be interesting to know how many UK residents spent the last couple of years in Ukraine.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But equally impressionable young, over-romanticising, idealists - just as vulnerable to recruitment

There would be those who would say that being made aware of the depth of Wahaabist doctrine and religious acceptance of same is somewhat removed from "over-romanticising"

 

[Oswyntail]

There would be those who would say that being made aware of the depth of Wahaabist doctrine and religious acceptance of same is somewhat removed from "over-romanticising"

But we do not know what propaganda is being fed to these young people to entice them to ISIS. Just like the anti-fascists of the 20th century, they may well have been given romantic images of "fighting to preserve their heritage", without the specifics. Under-18s are, by definition, "vulnerable".

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But we do not know what propaganda is being fed to these young people to entice them to ISIS. Just like the anti-fascists of the 20th century, they may well have been given romantic images of "fighting to preserve their heritage", without the specifics. Under-18s are, by definition, "vulnerable".

There is the other recently revealed matter where ISIL have been stressing the "End Times" understanding that is contained in the Islamic teaching, which would concentrate the mindset of those who fully subscribe to this. In that matter, age is immaterial.

 

[muz379]

These girls who went to Syria were very high educational achievers whereas the girls joining street gangs in major cities are normally the from low end of the educational scale who see in gang culture a chance to improve their status in local society.

High educational achievers for 15 & 16 yeah which is somewhat limited when facing fully functionining adult recruiters for ISIS who would no doubt portray themselves as some sort of experienced and knowledgeable Islamic scholar .