Items dropped onto the track /incident at Farringdon (Thameslink platforms)

[Skimpot flyer]

Trains through Farringdon are only able to use one of the Thameslink platforms at the moment, due to an item dropped on the track. For once, it’s not a mobile phone causing havoc.
Is there any way these kind of incidents can be reduced ?

“Earlier today, a childs scooter was dropped onto the Southbound track at Farringdon. This caused some arcing to the rails which supply electricity for the trains, and the rail has believed to have been damaged. Technicians from Network Rail are enroute to inspect the rail, but until this has been done trains will not be able to use the line involved.

Southbound services are able to use an alternative line through Farringdon, but this means congestion will occur in the area and to minimise this fewer trains will be able to run”

 

[Horizon22]

Trains through Farringdon are only able to use one of the Thameslink platforms at the moment, due to an item dropped on the track. For once, it’s not a mobile phone causing havoc.
Is there any way these kind of incidents can be reduced ?

“Earlier today, a childs scooter was dropped onto the Southbound track at Farringdon. This caused some arcing to the rails which supply electricity for the trains, and the rail has believed to have been damaged. Technicians from Network Rail are enroute to inspect the rail, but until this has been done trains will not be able to use the line involved.

Southbound services are able to use an alternative line through Farringdon, but this means congestion will occur in the area and to minimise this fewer trains will be able to run”

Other than having people take more care, making every single station have platform screen doors? The only other thing would be getting a response and repair team to site quicker. It’s obviously more of a risk in 3rd rail areas.

There are open platforms almost everywhere and that isn’t going to change.

I did notice they were sending a stack of southbound trains through and then seemingly a stack of northbound. I’d have thought the signaller might have considered it better to alternate. Luckily there are points both south and north of Farringdon to allow trains to traverse easily.

Was at St Pancras earlier with a lot of annoyed airport passengers - separately there appeared to be a power cut at Gatwick too.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I did notice they were sending a stack of southbound trains through and then seemingly a stack of northbound. I’d have thought the signaller might have considered it better to alternate.

Imagine being at roadworks, would you rather have 1 car go each way at a time or let a group through one way then the other way?

 

[pdeaves]

sending a stack of southbound trains through and then seemingly a stack of northbound.

That maximises the absolute number of trains through.

 

[Archvile]

Imagine being at roadworks, would you rather have 1 car go each way at a time or let a group through one way then the other way?

I think signal blocks erode that analogy - you can have cars bumper to bumper, maximising efficiency, but only 1 train can occupy a block at any time, regardless of direction.

I'm not familiar with the area though, so if there's a few blocks, it would make sense to send them through in batches (at speed), whereas alternating them requires a stop-start every time.

 

[londonbridge]

Did Greenwich parkrun at Avery Hill park this morning, afterwords went from Falconwood to London Bridge, this would explain why the 10:35 to Brighton was delayed to 11:20 and was rammed solid when it arrived, only just managed to squeeze on and struggled to get off at Croydon.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think signal blocks erode that analogy - you can have cars bumper to bumper, maximising efficiency, but only 1 train can occupy a block at any time, regardless of direction.

I'm not familiar with the area though, so if there's a few blocks, it would make sense to send them through in batches (at speed), whereas alternating them requires a stop-start every time.

On the core section there are indeed very short blocks, and even closing up signals half way along the platforms to allow very close following compared to a standard mainline railway.

 

[John Webb]

Trains through Farringdon are only able to use one of the Thameslink platforms at the moment, due to an item dropped on the track. For once, it’s not a mobile phone causing havoc.
Is there any way these kind of incidents can be reduced ?

“Earlier today, a childs scooter was dropped onto the Southbound track at Farringdon. This caused some arcing to the rails which supply electricity for the trains, and the rail has believed to have been damaged. Technicians from Network Rail are enroute to inspect the rail, but until this has been done trains will not be able to use the line involved......

The third rails at Farringdon are between the pair of lines to keep them away from the platform edge, so I'm not clear how a Child's Scooter landed far enough away from the platform to involve either of the third rails. Suggests this may have been a deliberate act? Or someone throwing the said object over a bridge wall from street level regardless of the consequences? I can't see that much can be done to prevent such incidents.

 

[skyhigh]

I think signal blocks erode that analogy - you can have cars bumper to bumper, maximising efficiency, but only 1 train can occupy a block at any time, regardless of direction.

But the reoccupation time for a block is much shorter if the following train is going in the same direction (that's my understanding, at least)

 

[whoosh]

There are short signalling sections in the Core in the right direction. There are wide signalling sections in the wrong direction.
To go Southbound on the Northbound track you'd have to cross over just after the old Kings Cross Thameslink, stop in the northbound platform at Farringdon, and then cross back at the crossover just after Farringdon to be back on the southbound line for City Thameslink.
It's probably about a mile, and would be better to have trains following each other, stopping at signals further back in a queue behind the one in the station. How it was carried out was definitely the best way to do it.

 

[andythebrave]

At least my mother-in-law will be getting her money back! Got here eventually and barbie's fired up

 

[Dr Hoo]

My first thought was that given the recent rail ban on e-scooters this might be extended to all scooters overnight with a few stickers on the posters.

But, perhaps not.

 

[Mattydo]

ETCS and ATO function wrong road through the core... Although it's the weekend so ATO won't be utilised but with more drivers now ETCS trained I'd imagine stacks will be quicker still.

 

[CAF397]

Why is ATO not used at the weekend? I'm surprised to read that.

 

[Mattydo]

Why is ATO not used at the weekend? I'm surprised to read that.

So Primarily...

ATO stops at every station and opens doors automatically (it's smart but not that smart I guess). Generally City TL is closed at weekends or closes earlier. (Although it closes earlier on the week too). To avoid the risk of a driver not having pressed the skip stop button and a train opening doors at a closed station (and to provide opportunity for drivers to refresh their skills in driving ETCS manually should ATO have failed... Which still occasionally happens) ATO is not used between 2300 and 0500 weekdays, at all at weekends and is optional from about 11am to 1400 weekdays when the service is reduced.

But also...

When engineering works are going on and there's more potential for track circuit interruptions and other glitches in power or signal supply the system gets a bit tetchy. Drop outs are common (for drivers who have forgotten the day of the week and used ATO accidentally).

 

[CAF397]

Brilliantly summised. Thank you. I did not realise the limitations of ATO!

Is some sort of link to the station calling pattern planned in the future?

 

[pdeaves]

I'm not clear how a Child's Scooter landed far enough away from the platform to involve either of the third rails

In my musings, a child was doing some trick where the scooter gets thrown up in the air and spins round, the child then let go by mistake and it shot onto the track and bounced/skidded a bit across to the third rail. Or maybe not.

 

[Railcar]

Thank you, Skimpot Flyer, for supplying the reason that my southbound (Horsham) train was held at Finsbury Park for 15 minutesand and for 15 minutes at the 'Do Not Alight' platform of the old Kings Cross Thameslink station, where we waited while four northbound trains had passed us and then, due to some fancy fingerwork on behalf of the signaller, we moved to Farringdon as the fourth passed us and pulled into the southbound Thameslink platform
Full marks to our driver, who kept us updated with information and apologies. The signaller had told him that ther was 'an obstruction' at Farringdon and that single-track working had been set up.

 

[43066]

The signaller had told him that ther was 'an obstruction' at Farringdon and that single-track working had been set up.

The core is fully bi-di, thankfully, so no need for single line working in the true sense! The issue is the sheer number of trains.

 

[greatkingrat]

I'm surprised the scooter damaged the rails so much that the line is closed completely, and that they couldn't just have a 10mph speed restriction or similar.

 

[hexagon789]

I'm surprised the scooter damaged the rails so much that the line is closed completely, and that they couldn't just have a 10mph speed restriction or similar.

I took an earlier post to mean it had damaged the power supply third-rail rather than the actual running rails.

 

[D6130]

I'm surprised the scooter damaged the rails so much that the line is closed completely, and that they couldn't just have a 10mph speed restriction or similar.

It may have become welded between the juice rail and running rail by the arcing.

 

[sleepinghobby]

The scooter caused tripping, somehow it managed to get to the third rail. Then it caught on fire and it is thought this caused damaged to the track.

 

[Trackman]

The third rails at Farringdon are between the pair of lines to keep them away from the platform edge, so I'm not clear how a Child's Scooter landed far enough away from the platform to involve either of the third rails. Suggests this may have been a deliberate act? Or someone throwing the said object over a bridge wall from street level regardless of the consequences? I can't see that much can be done to prevent such incidents.

Baffles me. Thank you, saved me a post on my question.
I wonder if it was in the vicinity of the station platforms...

 

[Horizon22]

There are short signalling sections in the Core in the right direction. There are wide signalling sections in the wrong direction.
To go Southbound on the Northbound track you'd have to cross over just after the old Kings Cross Thameslink, stop in the northbound platform at Farringdon, and then cross back at the crossover just after Farringdon to be back on the southbound line for City Thameslink.
It's probably about a mile, and would be better to have trains following each other, stopping at signals further back in a queue behind the one in the station. How it was carried out was definitely the best way to do it.

Fair enough. Might not be ideal for moving passengers though as you’ll get loads boarding the first one through, and then relatively few after and then the same again once the other direction moves.

 

[Dr_Paul]

It may have become welded between the juice rail and running rail by the arcing.

My granny once told me that her trip round to Kingston was seriously delayed because some hooligan had managed to chuck a tin bath on to the track and it had welded itself firmly to the conductor and running rails. Somewhat bizarrely, she found the episode quite amusing.

 

[Mattydo]

Brilliantly summised. Thank you. I did not realise the limitations of ATO!

Is some sort of link to the station calling pattern planned in the future?

I'm not certain but that has been mentioned. I would have thought it would just be a software patch so I don't see why it wouldn't be achievable.

ETCS is brilliant but ATO on a mainline train still occasionally feels to be in its beta stage. Completely safe but there are just some perfections to be made but it's hard to go into them all here (not really relevent to the thread!) It does, however, reassure drivers of their necessity for some time. I imagine the small issues on a small section of route would increase exponentially with added complexity.

Fair enough. Might not be ideal for moving passengers though as you’ll get loads boarding the first one through, and then relatively few after and then the same again once the other direction moves.

Services tend to come through in blocks with different destinations though. A Rainham/Orpington, followed by a Horsham then a Sutton a Brighton/Three Bridges and then a Sutton the other way, (for example I've never stopped to actually notice the pattern!) So I suppose it would spread those passengers going past the core out a bit.

 

[contrex]

My granny once told me that her trip round to Kingston was seriously delayed because some hooligan had managed to chuck a tin bath on to the track and it had welded itself firmly to the conductor and running rails. Somewhat bizarrely, she found the episode quite amusing.

60 years ago those old bed spring things were popular. Many were being thrown out, often by slinging them over a convenient railway fence, making them handy for kids wanting a firework display.

 

[Vexed]

Seems to be a track circuit failure at Farringdon Platform 3 at the moment, the same platform the scooter was dropped on. I assume the two are related as otherwise that's quite a coincidence.

And as I write this it looks like on Traksy a line block has been put in so hopefully Network Rail is on site and taking a look.

 

[Silenos]

Seems to be a track circuit failure at Farringdon Platform 3 at the moment, the same platform the scooter was dropped on. I assume the two are related as otherwise that's quite a coincidence.

And as I write this it looks like on Traksy a line block has been put in so hopefully Network Rail is on site and taking a look.

Utter chaos on the Thameslink services from London Bridge this morning. Many services cancelled (e.g. all the Luton trains as far as I could see) and the remainder running slow between London Bridge and Blackfriars, which Network Rail was saying was due to signalling problems.

A delayed Bedford service was due in at LBg platform 5 at 8.02. At 08:01 it was announced that ‘the next train will not stop here’, only it did. It wasn’t clear if this was the Bedford service or not. Then they announced on the platform that the service was terminating there, at the same time as the driver was announcing that this was the supposedly cancelled Luton service and would now carry on to there. Needless to say the passengers were totally confused, but on the assumption that the driver knew best, quite a few of us got on.

At Blackfriars platform staff were again telling people not to get on as the train was terminating there. Only it didn’t. It was only when we got to City Thameslink (the worst station for alternatives) and the pantograph had come down that a very apologetic driver had to tell people to detrain, due to a track circuit failure. (Platform staff, meanwhile, had no idea what was going on as they had no up-to-date info other than ‘fault on the train’). Luckily, the following train (which I think was the Bedford service that had originally been advertised at LBg) eventually turned up once the empty train finally got cleared from the platform.

The main thing I take from this is that the railway continues to do a terrible job of providing its staff, particularly the unfortunate platform staff who have to deal with irritable and confused passengers, with reliable and timely information.