Johnson snubs US bullying over Huawei.

[AM9]

Whilst being no fan of Johnson, I think that he has done the right thing here. The US has been making all sorts of threats about Huawei, a) that they are a major security threat to (UK) national security and b) that the US might limit or refuse any free trade deal. The elephant in the room is that the US's power in global telecomms sales is diminishing yearly and there is no depth to which the Trump administration will not sink in trying to stem that decline.
So that's a double win there, less chance of a US deal and a bit less of the US's domination of world markets with a snub from two EU countries (Germany is the other so far).

 

[Temple Meads]

This is the story concerned if (like me) you hadn't seen it:

The UK has decided to let Huawei continue to be used in its 5G networks but with restrictions, despite pressure from the US to block the firm.

The Chinese firm will be banned from supplying kit to "sensitive parts" of the network, known as the core.

In addition, it will only be allowed to account for 35% of the kit in a network's periphery, which includes radio masts.

And it will be excluded from areas near military bases and nuclear sites.

"Huawei is reassured by the UK government's confirmation that we can continue working with our customers to keep the 5G rollout on track," the firm's UK chief Victor Zhang said in a statement.

"It gives the UK access to world-leading technology and ensures a competitive market."

The Prime Minister had faced pressure from the US and some Conservative MPs to block the Chinese tech giant on the grounds of national security.

A Trump administration official has said the US "is disappointed" with the decision.

Beijing had warned the UK there could be "substantial" repercussions to other trade and investment plans had the company been banned outright.

The choice has been described as the biggest test of Boris Johnson's post-Brexit strategy to date.

Newt Gingrich, a Republican and former Speaker of the US House of Representatives, described it as a "strategic defeat" for his country.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51283059

 

[Ash Bridge]

Whilst being no fan of Johnson, I think that he has done the right thing here. The US has been making all sorts of threats about Huawei, a) that they are a major security threat to (UK) national security and b) that the US might limit or refuse any free trade deal. The elephant in the room is that the US's power in global telecomms sales is diminishing yearly and there is no depth to which the Trump administration will not sink in trying to stem that decline.
So that's a double win there, less chance of a US deal and a bit less of the US's domination of world markets with a snub from two EU countries (Germany is the other so far).

The timing couldn’t be more perfect could it, very wishful thinking on my part here but could this have an impact on Brexit?

 

[hooverboy]

Whilst being no fan of Johnson, I think that he has done the right thing here. The US has been making all sorts of threats about Huawei, a) that they are a major security threat to (UK) national security and b) that the US might limit or refuse any free trade deal. The elephant in the room is that the US's power in global telecomms sales is diminishing yearly and there is no depth to which the Trump administration will not sink in trying to stem that decline.
So that's a double win there, less chance of a US deal and a bit less of the US's domination of world markets with a snub from two EU countries (Germany is the other so far).

the right thing to do would be to award the contract to nokia or ericsson!

1)keeps trump and MI6 happy about potential lapses in security
2)trump and xinping not so happy if they thought they would be getting trade deals at the others expense.
3)both nokia and ericsson are trusted sources with a good track record for quality network gear.

if you want to low-ball all of them(for the brexiteers to be happy as well), then Samsung also make base station and network gear .

 

[Domh245]

Nokia & Ericsson (& others presumably?) will still be picking up contracts for 5G? This isn't Huawei being given remit to develop the entire 5G system, not least because they're limited to only supplying certain components!

 

[hooverboy]

Nokia & Ericsson (& others presumably?) will still be picking up contracts for 5G? This isn't Huawei being given remit to develop the entire 5G system, not least because they're limited to only supplying certain components!

to be honest nokia is the safety bet.They are predominantly the biggest supplier of UK network gear as things stand.
if you are going to replace a network, you basically do the whole lot in it's entirity,as crosspopulataion of gear introduces the risk that stuff doesn't communicate with other stuff in the correct manner.

theoretically all should be compatible with 3gpp(soon to be 5gpp),but it never works that way in practice unless you go for a full suite from one source.
For a mobile phone standpoint it's not that critical(your ears can be fooled by digital simulation and chopping up bits of signals into packets of 50 per second or so,just like video)
,but for a network carrying thousands of signals in a small area, data output and timings are critical.
the general specs for networks will give a tolerance of +/- xxx uS/ns to complete an operation, but a specific manufacturer will always have a bias towards how their systems will function in relation to that spec.
time difference = phase difference, just like AC electronics, but we are talking big differences in measurements in small amounts of time.

a 50hz signal has a wavelength measured in miles
a 3GHz signal(typical 4G), has a wavelength of about 4 inches.

..in blunt terms, on a car, you want enough electricity being supplied to the spark plug at the correct time.if your timing is off then the juice in the cylinder won't detonate correctly, and these latency effects will cascade down a network.

 

[yorksrob]

Presumably we'd be upgrading our own network, if we hadn't flogged everything off in the name of the glorious "free" market.

 

[Aictos]

Presumably we'd be upgrading our own network, if we hadn't flogged everything off in the name of the glorious "free" market.

Nothing stopping BT, Vodafone etc from upgrading the UK to get better mobile reception...

 

[dgl]

The problem with Huawei is they are regarded as having not only the cheapest equipment but also the most advanced so not including them in a 5g roll out will not only cost more but take longer. If this wasn't the case then they would probably not care about Huawei but circumstances mean that is not an option. On another note a lot of our IT infrastructure (WiFi AP's, Switches Etc.) at work is Huawei and I would trust them to have made due diligence when choosing them as a supplier.

 

[DarloRich]

Huawei and I would trust them to have made due diligence when choosing them as a supplier.

So would I. I would also trust that they have built in some sneaky hidden backdoor in any software. It is exactly what I would be doing and i assume exactly what SIS would try to do.

That is the risk not the quality of the product.

 

[AM9]

to be honest nokia is the safety bet.They are predominantly the biggest supplier of UK network gear as things stand.
if you are going to replace a network, you basically do the whole lot in it's entirity, as crosspopulataion of gear introduces the risk that stuff doesn't communicate with other stuff in the correct manner. ...

That was then but this is now. The decision is to start the 5g network now and neither Nokia, Ericsson (or any other system level supplier) has products that compete with Huawei in the view of UK customers. The proposal is to limit the Huawei contribution to 35% so there is nothing to stop a competitive system supplier catching Huawei up and supplying up to 65% of the UK need (or even supplanting them).
5G is an international standard with full interface standards that establish interoperability between different equipment manufacturers. Telecomms is no different to any other industry in terms of such requirements, and in general terms, if there are interface issues, then reference to the absolute interface levels would identify which item(s) is(are) at fault. On a large system deployment, qualification and acceptance of the system would form an integral part of the contract. It's the same in far more important sectors such as avionics, which has absolute requirements to operate effectively in a degraded environment and in fail-safe modes. The most vulnerable interface in a mobile network is that between base stations and subscribers' devices. Those devices are examples of consumer electronics produced in a competitive market, hence the need for an effective interface specification. So by your reckoning, everybody should have either a Nokia or an Ericsson*1 mobile, unless of course the network has both manufacturers infrastructure elements*2, then you are stuffed. Apple might as well pack up and go away as nobody has an Apple equipped network.
No, that is a fallacious pseudo-technical argument presented as another excuse for avoiding Huawei, (who also make some good phones had you not noticed).
*1 Ericsson have virtually exited the handset market in the last 10 years so that could be difficult
*2 Some of the UK providers already use Huawei kit, Vodaphone for instance uses it in the UK, as well as Germany, Italy, South Korea, Russia to name a few. The list of those planning to include Huawei is far longer, and with the UK and Germany's announcements, that looks like Huawei will be regarded as a viable supplier.

 

[hooverboy]

Nothing stopping BT, Vodafone etc from upgrading the UK to get better mobile reception...

bt,vodafone as such are operators,not equipment providers

 

[hooverboy]

That was then but this is now. The decision is to start the 5g network now and neither Nokia, Ericsson (or any other system level supplier) has products that compete with Huawei in the view of UK customers. The proposal is to limit the Huawei contribution to 35% so there is nothing to stop a competitive system supplier catching Huawei up and supplying up to 65% of the UK need (or even supplanting them).
5G is an international standard with full interface standards that establish interoperability between different equipment manufacturers. Telecomms is no different to any other industry in terms of such requirements, and in general terms, if there are interface issues, then reference to the absolute interface levels would identify which item(s) is(are) at fault. On a large system deployment, qualification and acceptance of the system would form an integral part of the contract. It's the same in far more important sectors such as avionics, which has absolute requirements to operate effectively in a degraded environment and in fail-safe modes. The most vulnerable interface in a mobile network is that between base stations and subscribers' devices. Those devices are examples of consumer electronics produced in a competitive market, hence the need for an effective interface specification. So by your reckoning, everybody should have either a Nokia or an Ericsson*1 mobile, unless of course the network has both manufacturers infrastructure elements*2, then you are stuffed. Apple might as well pack up and go away as nobody has an Apple equipped network.
No, that is a fallacious pseudo-technical argument presented as another excuse for avoiding Huawei, (who also make some good phones had you not noticed).
*1 Ericsson have virtually exited the handset market in the last 10 years so that could be difficult
*2 Some of the UK providers already use Huawei kit, Vodaphone for instance uses it in the UK, as well as Germany, Italy, South Korea, Russia to name a few. The list of those planning to include Huawei is far longer, and with the UK and Germany's announcements, that looks like Huawei will be regarded as a viable supplier.

need to make the distinction between handset manufacturers and network gear .
Ericsson etc have exited the handset market(it's saturated), but they are #2 or #3 worldwide in terms of network equipment.

Nokia still manufacture handsets,albeit r+d in finland and production via foxconn, but nokia siemens networks is the subsidiary that deals with base station gear etc.Still very active.

I would certainly trust either of them in preference to huawei.
you pay a premium for the privilege of having a partner you have done business with in the past and is proven reliable.

 

[D365]

The problem with Huawei is they are regarded as having not only the cheapest equipment but also the most advanced so not including them in a 5g roll out will not only cost more but take longer. If this wasn't the case then they would probably not care about Huawei but circumstances mean that is not an option. On another note a lot of our IT infrastructure (WiFi AP's, Switches Etc.) at work is Huawei and I would trust them to have made due diligence when choosing them as a supplier.

See below:

So would I. I would also trust that they have built in some sneaky hidden backdoor in any software. It is exactly what I would be doing and i assume exactly what SIS would try to do.

That is the risk not the quality of the product.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Huawei is making a loss on selling their hardware, and recouping their costs by virtue of government "subsidy"...

 

[Bantamzen]

So would I. I would also trust that they have built in some sneaky hidden backdoor in any software. It is exactly what I would be doing and i assume exactly what SIS would try to do.

That is the risk not the quality of the product.

Well that would be a matter for the security services to look at, not for the US administration to dictate to us what we should do. And to be fair, it won't just be Chinese companies potentially doing these kind of things, nor will it just be China trying to get an intelligence advantage....

 

[nidave]

My question is. .why is this an issue with 5g and not 4g or other switching network equipment which has been used by hauwai and is already installed in lots of countries and areas.

Do we not send secure data over the existing network or will we only start when we roll out 5g /s

Lots of network traffic has already been sent through thier kit. Could it be the USA bullying and forcing people to use cisco kit (which has really gone down hill recently)

I wonder if cisco is funding a presidential campaign.

 

[nidave]

I would also trust that they have built in some sneaky hidden backdoor in any software. It is exactly what I would be doing and i assume exactly what SIS would try to do.

You mean like the one roumoued in cisco kit at the instruction of the US government ??

 

[dgl]

The big thing is America has a few big telecommunications companies and Donald obviously wants them to be the dominant player, unfortunately for wireless infrastructure like 5G they aren't so having a company from a country you don't really like being more advanced doesn't look good. So naturally by telling people not to use Huawei kit then that gives America some time to create an alternative product.
What I don't think Trump understands that if you don't want to use Huawei equipment then you pretty much have to go European (Nokia, Ericsson, Alcatel-Lucent Etc.), America just isn't a major player in the wireless infrastructure market for mobile telecommunications (though companies like ADC do make antenna) and blocking Huawei won't change that, Ericsson themselves have 35%of the 2/3/4g market.

 

[hooverboy]

The big thing is America has a few big telecommunications companies and Donald obviously wants them to be the dominant player, unfortunately for wireless infrastructure like 5G they aren't so having a company from a country you don't really like being more advanced doesn't look good. So naturally by telling people not to use Huawei kit then that gives America some time to create an alternative product.
What I don't think Trump understands that if you don't want to use Huawei equipment then you pretty much have to go European (Nokia, Ericsson, Alcatel-Lucent Etc.), America just isn't a major player in the wireless infrastructure market for mobile telecommunications (though companies like ADC do make antenna) and blocking Huawei won't change that, Ericsson themselves have 35%of the 2/3/4g market.

I do see trumps point in relation to potential security concerns, and when taking the bigger picture into account ie defence contracts etc, then it is worth saying "point taken" and choose an alternative source-not necessarily american though, if a reciprocal deal can be done with the US with BAE/boeing/lockheed/northrup/raytheon contracts.

like I said before, nokia and ericsson are the safety bets.
LG , samsung,or japanese equipment would be a safer option than huawei.