June 2024 reopening of the line between Clitheroe and Hellifield for passenger trains

[InkyScrolls]

[Huw] Merriman has met with MPs for the Ribble Valley and Pendle, Nigel Evans and Andrew Stephenson, to discuss the reopening of the Clitheroe to Hellifield section of the line using funds from the cancelled northern legs of High Speed 2 (HS2). [...] Stantec’s report suggested it was clear a passenger service between Clitheroe and Hellifield (as an extension of existing Manchester Victoria to Clitheroe services) could be reinstated in the short-term with little or no need for additional infrastructure.

Source: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...used-railway-in-lancashire-tabled-15-01-2024/

As a local this would be hugely beneficial to me personally. This thread should be kept for discussing actual updates and news; any speculation should be discussed in this thread.

 

[Llandudno]

Source: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...used-railway-in-lancashire-tabled-15-01-2024/

As a local this would be hugely beneficial to me personally. This thread should be kept for discussing actual updates and news; any speculation should be discussed in this thread.

A bit pointless unless it continues to Skipton, albeit with a reversal at Hellifield.

 

[neonison]

A bit pointless unless it continues to Skipton, albeit with a reversal at Hellifield.

I agree, to make sense it needs to continue to Skipton. Reinstating the bay at Hellifield would be ideal though the line is not so heavily used as to make it essential.
it would of course abstract PX from the mooted SELRAP scheme.

 

[30907]

I agree, to make sense it needs to continue to Skipton. Reinstating the bay at Hellifield would be ideal though the line is not so heavily used as to make it essential.
it would of course abstract PX from the mooted SELRAP scheme.

Reading the article, I note that reversal at Hellifield is not tabled as an option, though terminating there is. Presumably the (modest) costs of upgrading the signalling there ruled it out (recent practice was to run to and from Settle Jn to reverse)?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Isn't it a low-grade 13-mile 45mph (30mph for freight) with no intermediate signalling?

 

[bluenoxid]

The costs of upgrading Hellifield won’t be modest compared to paying for a faster bus between Skipton and Clitheroe.

The layout at Skipton is also quite limiting particularly once you have got a stone train and other services heading north in the mix.

 

[The Planner]

Isn't it a low-grade 13-mile 45mph (30mph for freight) with no intermediate signalling?

The block is Horrocksford Jn to Hellifield, so 13 odd miles at 30/45mph. Its effectively a headway between trains of 20/21 minutes for a passenger, up to 35 minutes if its a heavy freight. You can't do more than 2tph along there without putting an IB signal in.

 

[Gathursty]

I agree, to make sense it needs to continue to Skipton. Reinstating the bay at Hellifield would be ideal though the line is not so heavily used as to make it essential.
it would of course abstract PX from the mooted SELRAP scheme.

Surely as soon as SELRAP is complete, such a service would cease or be used in conjunction with Dales Rail or whatever Northern wish?

 

[zwk500]

Surely as soon as SELRAP is complete, such a service would cease or be used in conjunction with Dales Rail or whatever Northern wish?

The timescales for SELRAP are such that the 'what ifs' about it being open don't need to be worried about for this proposal.

 

[Bald Rick]

Surely as soon as SELRAP is complete

Ha ha ha!

If there is a struggle to make a case for a service in that neck of the woods along a line that already exists, then you can imagine what the case is for spending £400m on a new line to enable a similar service.

(Skipton Colne isnt happening).

 

[The Bear]

A bit pointless unless it continues to Skipton, albeit with a reversal at Hellifield.

Reinstating the bay at Hellifield would be ideal though the line is not so heavily used as to make it essential.

Reading the article, I note that reversal at Hellifield is not tabled as an option, though terminating there is. Presumably the (modest) costs of upgrading the signalling there ruled it out (recent practice was to run to and from Settle Jn to reverse)?

The current signalling at Hellifield doesn't allow for passenger trains to turn back.
When Northern ran the a half hearted Dalesrail (ie Preston-Hellifield to connect with a Leeds-Carlisle) or any road learning prior to a DalesRail season restarting the units would always run ECS to turnback & crossover on the branch at Settle Jn.

Isn't it a low-grade 13-mile 45mph (30mph for freight) with no intermediate signalling?

The costs of upgrading Hellifield won’t be modest compared to paying for a faster bus between Skipton and Clitheroe.

The block is Horrocksford Jn to Hellifield, so 13 odd miles at 30/45mph. Its effectively a headway between trains of 20/21 minutes for a passenger, up to 35 minutes if its a heavy freight. You can't do more than 2tph along there without putting an IB signal in.

Any modifications to Hellifield SB would be difficult as I have a feeling the frame is at or very nearly at maximum capacity.

 

[Meerkat]

Any modifications to Hellifield SB would be difficult as I have a feeling the frame is at or very nearly at maximum capacity.

How so - I imagined there would be loads of spare levers from rationalisations?

 

[The Bear]

How so - I imagined there would be loads of spare levers from rationalisations?

I'm not aware of any rationalisations at Hellifield (at least in last 30+ years or so), in fact quite the opposite.
Hellifield retains a double junction layout.
Both up & down loops were brought back into use in the early/mid 2000s because of the boom in freight using the line, both loops retain access to/from the Clitheroe line.
Access to WCRC's private sidings (accessed from the down sidings/loop) has seen use on & off by Colas timber traffic recently.

 

[cle]

What would the service be? An extension of the existing Manchester-Clitheroe? An alternative Manchester-Scotland routing ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What would the service be? An extension of the existing Manchester-Clitheroe? An alternative Manchester-Scotland routing ?

An extension of the Clitheroe is what is being cited.

 

[30907]

How so - I imagined there would be loads of spare levers from rationalisations?

The rationalisation was in 1966 when North Junction closed. Looking online, there appear to have been 6 spares, and you would need 2 running signals vice discs and 2 facing point locks. Possible but not cheap!

 

[D6130]

Any modifications to Hellifield SB would be difficult as I have a feeling the frame is at or very nearly at maximum capacity.

How so - I imagined there would be loads of spare levers from rationalisations?

I'm not aware of any rationalisations at Hellifield (at least in last 30+ years or so), in fact quite the opposite.
Hellifield retains a double junction layout.

Following the closure of Hellifield North box in March 1966, the existing box took on additional point and signal controls, which just about filled the frame.

Both up & down loops were brought back into use in the early/mid 2000s because of the boom in freight using the line, both loops retain access to/from the Clitheroe line.

Having signed the route as a driver from 1992 until 2012, I'm not aware of the loops ever having been taken out of use.

 

[steamybrian]

If there are no passenger trains booked over the line should it have gone through the legal process of "withdrawal of passenger services" closure procedure?

 

[yorksrob]

If it gives Mancs access to the Settle and Carlisle, that would be a great thing.

(Would also provide a back route between Manchester and Lancaster if Preston's blocked).

 

[185]

Should be going to Settle, but acknowledge turning it back there isn't easy.

 

[wilbers]

If there are no passenger trains booked over the line should it have gone through the legal process of "withdrawal of passenger services" closure procedure?

DalesRail to end - what could be done?

As noted in other threads Northern have allegedly confirmed that DalesRail will not run in 2023, and the trains are indeed not in the new timetable. For a service that's existed in various forms for about 50 years, this is a big loss. On the assumption that the plan isn't to close and lift...

www.railforums.co.uk

Whilst passenger trains didn't run in 2023 they did run up to 2022.

 

[IanXC]

If there are no passenger trains booked over the line should it have gone through the legal process of "withdrawal of passenger services" closure procedure?

I'm lead to believe it's always technically been a charter service rather than a usual timetabled service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Should be going to Settle, but acknowledge turning it back there isn't easy.

Ribblehead ideally, which can turn it back, but might need an extra unit. Would be useful to walkers then.

If the choice was two hourly Ribblehead portions or hourly Hellifield ones I'd go with the former.

 

[Jack Hay]

Watch this space. Northern are working up a plan for a Manchester to Ribblehead service starting this summer. Announced to stakeholders in Manchester this week.

 

[Bertie the bus]

This thread should be kept for discussing actual updates and news; any speculation should be discussed in this thread.

It will be a short thread if it is confined to discussing actual updates and news.

Lots of things could happen with the HS2 money but unless the government wants to redeploy some of the HS2 Ltd executives and £36 billion magically turns into £93 billion many of these things that could happen won’t and this is almost certainly one of them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It will be a short thread if it is confined to discussing actual updates and news.

Lots of things could happen with the HS2 money but unless the government wants to redeploy some of the HS2 Ltd executives and £36 billion magically turns into £93 billion many of these things that could happen won’t and this is almost certainly one of them.

The previous post seems to suggest otherwise.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Watch this space. Northern are working up a plan for a Manchester to Ribblehead service starting this summer. Announced to stakeholders in Manchester this week.

Yes, the annual Dalesrail. Really nothing to get excited about.

 

[Jack Hay]

It sounded a bit different to that. We'll wait to see what they announce formally.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, the annual Dalesrail. Really nothing to get excited about.

DalesRail is (was) Blackpool to Carlisle, so it's at least not quite that.

 

[Bertie the bus]

DalesRail is (was) Blackpool to Carlisle, so it's at least not quite that.

Was and this year won't be. That's assuming it runs.