Just how hard is it to drive a train

[njamescouk]

from my negligible experience of simulators on a PC, driving is way easier than signalling.

this opinion has nothing much to do with real life of course.

 

[westcoaster]

Keeping the train under control is where the skill is. I was once told 'anyone can drive a train, but not everyone can Contol a train'.

The more modern units I.e 700's braking is akin to car driving as it's all about how much pressure you want to stop, with it being 100% variable and not stepped braking.

 

[ComUtoR]

The more modern units I.e 700's braking is akin to car driving as it's all about how much pressure you want to stop, with it being 100% variable and not stepped braking.

I much prefer the variable controller. You get so much more control over the units and you can stop super smoothly.

I think I've given up trying to accelerate with any deft control as the unit kinda does what it wants :/


I've driven a variety of units and I much prefer the modern ones. The simplicity of the older gen units is something I miss.

 

[westcoaster]

I much prefer the variable controller. You get so much more control over the units and you can stop super smoothly.

I think I've given up trying to accelerate with any deft control as the unit kinda does what it wants :/


I've driven a variety of units and I much prefer the modern ones. The simplicity of the older gen units is something I miss.

Unless on a restrictive aspect or wet rail, just give it the beans. I never look at the braking tab anymore. After a few months you get a real good feel, for how to drive them nicely.
I tend to do 60% power and 60% braking and you keep to time, except on the catford loop. Only Lewis Hamilton can keep to those timings on the down

 

[plcd1]

I've driven an Oslo tram, Tyne and Wear Metrocar and a tube train. It was quite a while ago and the trains weren't in passenger service but the things I recall as being difficult were the sheer scale of concentration and getting the train to stop smoothly and in the right location. Getting it to "go" wasn't an issue once I got the pressure on the dead man's handle correct.

As others have said, though, it is all the learning about stock, routes and the ability to cope with the day to day pressures that are the harder aspects of the job.

 

[MartinB1]

Once you have completed the long training course then the actual act of driving is generally quite easy in good conditions. Getting to that level though is the hard bit ie the rules, traction, driving to signals, confidently stopping the train smoothly in the correct place using good braking technique , and route knowledge. Once you know all this, and have acquired the practical skills driving generally is easy. Obviously out of course situations, bad conditions etc are when you really have to draw on your knowledge.

Yes in the pure simplistic sense of getting the train moving ,keeping it moving, and stopping it is easy. There is a hell of a lot more to train driving than that though. Some of the comments on here implying that it must be so easy are quite frankly idiotic. The training is long for good reason!!!

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

 

[ComUtoR]

Unless on a restrictive aspect or wet rail, just give it the beans. I never look at the braking tab anymore. After a few months you get a real good feel, for how to drive them nicely.

I tend to do 60% power and 60% braking and you keep to time, except on the catford loop. Only Lewis Hamilton can keep to those timings on the down

I've been trying to figure out what % reflects which brake step but the unit seems to differ depending on the gradient as 60% didn't stop me consistently between stops. I am certainly driving using the 'feel' more than specific brake steps etc but I have driven more on instinct and feel for many years now. On topic for a second. This is certainly more a reflection of how to drive a train. I'm pretty confident that any Driver could get into any unit and be able to drive it. Give it a few minutes to figure the controller and your away. The ability to judge your braking curve is a skill in itself.

I like the brake tab as I've rolled it backwards and it gives me a little more self confidence. Sticking it in 'off' still make me nervous.

Timings wise. I was of under the impression that the 700's timings were to be changed on the diagrams (as per the 700 epic thread) but 700's on the juice is slower than a 319 !!! !!! ! ! ! (I have a few performance check places) I find the overall performance a lot better.

Cheers for the advice, it's most appreciated.

 

[Western Lord]

Once you've been trained in the operation of the thing and absorbed all the rules and regulations and acquired the route knowledge, not that difficult, after all, a train can only go forwards or backwards. Arguably a road vehicle can be more difficult as it can also move sideways, is not constrained by rails and operates in a largely uncontrolled environment. Flying an aeroplane also involves going up and down although obviously they can't go backwards (yes, I know the Harrier did it as a party trick)! I dare say there are drivers who can competently drive a train but struggle with a washing machine.

 

[Johncleesefan]

Echoing what I'm sure most drivers will have said already, the actual driving of the train is fairly easy. Its knowing confidently what needs doing when things don't go quite to plan that you get your money for, I degraded working situations, train faults, diversions and reversible working that may not take place often, and of course being aware of the conditions of the day to ensure you are braking correctly. I find points where you are almost a veg letting the train do the work and other times you are having to exert a little more brain power.

 

[westcoaster]

I've been trying to figure out what % reflects which brake step but the unit seems to differ depending on the gradient as 60% didn't stop me consistently between stops. I am certainly driving using the 'feel' more than specific brake steps etc but I have driven more on instinct and feel for many years now. On topic for a second. This is certainly more a reflection of how to drive a train. I'm pretty confident that any Driver could get into any unit and be able to drive it. Give it a few minutes to figure the controller and your away. The ability to judge your braking curve is a skill in itself.

I like the brake tab as I've rolled it backwards and it gives me a little more self confidence. Sticking it in 'off' still make me nervous.

Timings wise. I was of under the impression that the 700's timings were to be changed on the diagrams (as per the 700 epic thread) but 700's on the juice is slower than a 319 !!! !!! ! ! ! (I have a few performance check places) I find the overall performance a lot better.

Cheers for the advice, it's most appreciated.

I never leave it in off always 100% at stations.
Braking wise
33% = 1 step 33%=step 1, 66% = step 2 and so on.

 

[graham11]

surely once you have learned to drive it and , like driving a car it becomes automatic and you do it without thinking about it then it should be easy.

I had a friend who flew aircraft for a living and was very dismissal of it being difficult . He said once used to it you take off , fly to the destination , land and taxi to the parking bay without really thinking about . It becomes second nature .
A bit like walking , you just do it without thinking about putting one foot in front of the other .

Am I right in my feelings.

Graham

 

[Llanigraham]

surely once you have learned to drive it and , like driving a car it becomes automatic and you do it without thinking about it then it should be easy.

I had a friend who flew aircraft for a living and was very dismissal of it being difficult . He said once used to it you take off , fly to the destination , land and taxi to the parking bay without really thinking about . It becomes second nature .
A bit like walking , you just do it without thinking about putting one foot in front of the other .

Am I right in my feelings.

Graham

I don't think so.
That way brings complacency, and a lack of concentration, and then something different happens..........................!!

 

[ComUtoR]

I don't think so.
That way brings complacency, and a lack of concentration, and then something different happens..........................!!

Unconscious Vs Conscious competency.

 

[al78]

It sounds like that getting a train to go and stop isn't difficult. It is doing this correctly in service that is the difficult part i.e. knowing exactly how much to accelerate, how much to brake, when to accelerate and brake, stopping in the right place during thick fog, watching out for debris on the line (after high winds), remembering the route, keeping concentation during dull periods, dealing with incidents and making the correct decision. I'm not a train driver so am making an educated guess here.

A bit like learning to play chess; it is easy to learn how the pieces move, but playing at grandmaster level is extremely hard and takes a lot of work and dedication.

 

[al78]

surely once you have learned to drive it and , like driving a car it becomes automatic and you do it without thinking about it then it should be easy.

I had a friend who flew aircraft for a living and was very dismissal of it being difficult . He said once used to it you take off , fly to the destination , land and taxi to the parking bay without really thinking about . It becomes second nature .
A bit like walking , you just do it without thinking about putting one foot in front of the other .

Probably why a lot of people are so crap at it, i.e. the number of times I have to swerve around those who are intent on a collision course with me, mainly because they have a phone glued to the side of their head, or people who walk straight out of shop doors into a crowded high street without bothering to look or attempt to merge smoothly with the foot-flow, instead expecting everyone else to automatically accomodate them. The worst of the bunch drive cars like that.

 

[MisterT]

As many have said before, as a train driver (even though I drive in another country) I too would say that any 3 year old can set the train in motion. But to truly master the train, including all things and rules that comes with it... that is a different kind of story.
To be honest, that's the part I like most. The unexpected things. Every day is a different day and every day, you learn something new.

To give an example of things that could happen (short story):
We had some stormy weather yesterday in the Netherlands. I was driving the Intercity service from The Hague to Eindhoven. It was after the city of Breda, towards Tilburg, that a few interesting things happened. Heavy rain obstructed my view outside to the outside. Even the windscreen wipers couldn't manage. I was driving at approximately 87 mph/140 km/h. Signals were barely visible, but thanks to my route knowledge, I knew exactly were I was: just a few miles outside the station of Gilze-Rijen.
Then, all of a sudden, my safety system (the Dutch ATB system) drops from green to yellow, as a warning that the next signal could be at danger.
As I pull the brakes, I see a signal at danger passing by.
I just had a SPAD. How could this happen?
Before I come to a complete stop, I already informed the train manager about what happend and raised an alarm to the signaller that I passed a signal at danger.
I was sure I didn't miss any signals and therefor it had to be either a signal fault or my path was deliberately revoked by the signaller due to an obstruction on the line ahead.
The signaller was not amused. "That bloody thing again," he muttered, before telling me it was a faulty signal, that was supposed to be fixed days ago. He asked if I was able to drive, or that a relief driver was necessary. I told him that I was good to go and I got permission to proceed at caution to the next signal.
After informing the train manager, I drove the train slowly to the next signal, which showed a nice green light and I picked up speed again, to arrive at the station of Tilburg, delayed only by a few minutes.

This is just an example from another day at the office, and I think it's a good example of how a normal day can quickly turn into something slightly different.
Driving a train is easy, but it's not only the driving itself that matters.

 

[graham11]

I wasn`t suggesting that you don`t think about what`s happening round you but automatically responding to controls .

when driving my car I am not thinking about the actual driving but if somebody steps out in front of me I brake instantly without actually thinking about it .

Surely the difficulty with driving a train , as with flying a plane , driving a car or riding a motorcycle is responding to what is going on round you not the actual operation of controls .

 

[Chrisgr31]

My daughter (12) and I had a go in the Southern simulator recently. In our experience the starting and stopping the train are relatively easy, it's stopping it in the right place that is the difficult part. We also didn't have to worry about other parts of the job, nor route knowledge etc.

The driver earlier in the thread is not the only one I have heard recently who have said I wouldn't recommend it as a career, a couple said it when they heard my daughter had been in the simulator.

Personally I find my job fairly easy with the occasional difficult bits, however others have said I don't know how you do it. However that why we are trained to do the job we do!

 

[jon0844]

Easy once you learn it.

Most of the skill has been removed now with things like the professional driving policies, the removal of the auto brake and traditional EP brakes, which have been replaced by dynamic braking and electric braking which takes away the skills previously learnt.

Now after 25+ year's the only thing I find challenging is getting out of bed at 0200 and getting any form of motivation to do the job. It's boring and repetitive and as a few drivers will say its a daily exercise in keeping management and manager's off your back. Still only a few more years to do and I'm getting out.

And if you're asking if I'd recommend it as a career, then absolutely NOT.

It causes nothing but problems with your body clock and destroys your social life too, it restricts you if you like a drink and disrupts family life too.

There are however loads of people going for the job, who seem motivated purely by the money.

I have no idea how they do with the multiple assessments, the months in the classroom and more tests before even stepping foot in a cab.

Like driving a car, the job gets easier years down the line (sic) when you just know everything (like the rules and procedures) and have the confidence, having maybe done some of the things on your own that you trained for but never did 'in the wild'.

Like an airline pilot, most of your pay is for the things you need to do when stuff goes wrong. The day to day driving is easy, and only ever likely to get easier as technology catches up.

 

[philthetube]

When I started I was told, "difficult job to get, easy to lose" and that is certainly true.

P.S. still got mine, and I would recommend it.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I wasn`t suggesting that you don`t think about what`s happening round you but automatically responding to controls .

when driving my car I am not thinking about the actual driving but if somebody steps out in front of me I brake instantly without actually thinking about it .

Surely the difficulty with driving a train , as with flying a plane , driving a car or riding a motorcycle is responding to what is going on round you not the actual operation of controls .

Do you mean like it almost becomes second nature?

 

[PudseyBearHST]

As many have said before, as a train driver (even though I drive in another country) I too would say that any 3 year old can set the train in motion. But to truly master the train, including all things and rules that comes with it... that is a different kind of story.
To be honest, that's the part I like most. The unexpected things. Every day is a different day and every day, you learn something new.

To give an example of things that could happen (short story):
We had some stormy weather yesterday in the Netherlands. I was driving the Intercity service from The Hague to Eindhoven. It was after the city of Breda, towards Tilburg, that a few interesting things happened. Heavy rain obstructed my view outside to the outside. Even the windscreen wipers couldn't manage. I was driving at approximately 87 mph/140 km/h. Signals were barely visible, but thanks to my route knowledge, I knew exactly were I was: just a few miles outside the station of Gilze-Rijen.
Then, all of a sudden, my safety system (the Dutch ATB system) drops from green to yellow, as a warning that the next signal could be at danger.
As I pull the brakes, I see a signal at danger passing by.
I just had a SPAD. How could this happen?
Before I come to a complete stop, I already informed the train manager about what happend and raised an alarm to the signaller that I passed a signal at danger.
I was sure I didn't miss any signals and therefor it had to be either a signal fault or my path was deliberately revoked by the signaller due to an obstruction on the line ahead.
The signaller was not amused. "That bloody thing again," he muttered, before telling me it was a faulty signal, that was supposed to be fixed days ago. He asked if I was able to drive, or that a relief driver was necessary. I told him that I was good to go and I got permission to proceed at caution to the next signal.
After informing the train manager, I drove the train slowly to the next signal, which showed a nice green light and I picked up speed again, to arrive at the station of Tilburg, delayed only by a few minutes.

This is just an example from another day at the office, and I think it's a good example of how a normal day can quickly turn into something slightly different.
Driving a train is easy, but it's not only the driving itself that matters.

That is certainly an interesting story I have heard from train drivers in the past that no two days on the job are ever the same but then I have heard from other drivers including some posts on here who say that the job is extremely repetitive.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

London Underground has part time drivers, all the night tube drivers for a start.

Sorry I was thinking mainly about Mainline drivers. I should know because I applied for the part time Night Tube Driver. (but still in the pool of the unknown :cry: )
As najaB said, I should have said "Recreational driver."
Do most TOCs offer part-time Mainline Drivers or only a few?

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I've driven an Oslo tram, Tyne and Wear Metrocar and a tube train. It was quite a while ago and the trains weren't in passenger service but the things I recall as being difficult were the sheer scale of concentration and getting the train to stop smoothly and in the right location. Getting it to "go" wasn't an issue once I got the pressure on the dead man's handle correct.

As others have said, though, it is all the learning about stock, routes and the ability to cope with the day to day pressures that are the harder aspects of the job.

I have played many simulations on computer/ipad (which of course I appreciate does not come even close to reality) but I do also find coming to a stop smoothly and at the right spot to be a challenge.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Thank you to all contributions and replies

 

[Tim M]

Push the lever forward to brake, Pull it backward to take power, Turn switch to select direction - Job done

It's so easy a robot could do it.

Well yes.... Having a bit of experience with the application of Automatic Train Operation (ATO) systems, the advantage is consistent station to station runs. But to say it's easy ignores the fact that conditions vary, particularly on surface lines. It took time to perfect the Central Line ATO to accommodate slip and slide in wet conditions.

The ATO needs to know about the state of the line ahead including Maximum Safe Speed due to trains ahead, junctions, permanent and temporary speed restrictions etc. This is much the same as the driver needs to know, but yes a robot can do it.

 

[MisterT]

That is certainly an interesting story I have heard from train drivers in the past that no two days on the job are ever the same but then I have heard from other drivers including some posts on here who say that the job is extremely repetitive.

Being a train driver is repetitive, absolutely. And that's the part where things get tricky.
When a signal clears 9 out of 10 times just in front of you, you'll need to make sure that you don't think: oh, it will clear because it did the last 9 times.
When I catch myself doing things only on 'autopilot', I'll try to pull myself out of it. You have to be focused at all times. And yes, to maintain the same level of focus after nine hours can be difficult.

But train driving itself: piece of cake. Even braking and stopping at the correct position, although it needs a little more training than driving itself.

 

[furnessvale]

How far someone is "educated" has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they are suitable to drive trains.

I know of several "highly educated" people who have failed the psychmetrics, one of them was an airline first officer.

Intelligence and common sense are far, far more important than qualifications in this job.

Assuming he was good at his original job, and ignoring the obvious question as to why he would want to give it up, does this not open up the possibility that phsychometrics may be fallible?

 

[Harlesden]

I would say the vital part of operating a train SAFELY is maintaining your concentration and alertness throughout the time the train is in operation whether you are hauling passengers or freight.
The Hinton Rail Disaster (Canada 1986) seems to highlight a need for there to be a mandatory requirement for two people in the cab on long distance runs.
The video is 1/4 as the full version seems to have been deleted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24yBuuCET6Y

 

[ANorthernGuard]

An old hand driver said to me once and it makes perfect sense.... Anyone can drive a train....but it takes a lot of skill and practice to stop the bloody thing! couldn't fault him lol