Keep getting letters

[DavidL86]

Hi,

I keep getting prosecution letters from various rail companies (LNER, Nothern and Transpenine) to my address under lots of different names with FPN's and chasing letters, I've lived in my house for nearly 10 years, it was a new build and I was the first to live in it, none of the names on the letters are people I know and its a mixture of male and females sometimes travelling at the same time.

it seems impossible to contact these companies as their phone systems prevent you from talking to anyone and if you speak to a human in the payment department they are very rude and don't care, one said "I'm just here to take the money", I did however speak to someone at LNER who was very nice she made a note on all the current ones but said she cannot stop more coming in, apparently when they stop someone they ask for ID but its not required, in her words "we cannot turn people upside down and shake them"

Is there anything I can do as at the moment I'm just accruing a decent pile of letters.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[MikeWh]

You might find your local police may be interested, but from a railway perspective I'd simply return any such letters unopened marked as not known at this address.

 

[packermac]

You mentioned "I keep getting"
How long has this been going on?
I would be concerned that it is not only rail travel that your address is being used for but other activities as well.
I would log this with your local police station if only to get some form of crime number or reference to show you have been proactive in reporting it. They may do nothing at this stage.
Regarding the specific TOC (rail company issues) do not ignore these as over time things will just escalate and your address through no fault of yours will end up on various databases that could impact your credit score.
Others on here can tell you how to best approach the rail companies but I would also have a word with either Citizens Advice or a Solicitor. A few quid now on a solicitor could save you a lot of time and money (and grief) downstream.

 

[Master29]

MikeWH's advice is good. The police might well be interested. Obviously your address has for some reason been targeted by some nefarious agency (sounds a bit sinister I know). This is a new one on me.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, as others have said, do not accrue a pile of letters, ASAP cross through the addresee name and address and write 'Rtn to sender not known at this address' and drop them in a royal mail pillar box - you do not need to put a stamp on them.

Given some on going fraudster(s) is using your address presumably, as well as letting local police know as above, maybe before you rtn such post take a date stamped photo of it (with Rtn to sender written on probably) so you have a record of who is purporting to use your address if it does not stop.

As my place was rented before I moved in I printed 'rtn to sender - not known at this address' sticky labels off on my PC for all the junk and not junk mail that comes/came to previous occupants - makes it easier to rtn it quickly!

It may also be worth checking with your local council's elections department or at the local library where you can view a copy, to see the electoral register and check no other people are listed on it beyond those you know actually live there. This is unlikely given what you say, but worth a check as a fraudster might in theory have made a false registration.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

If you haven't already, I would check your credit score to see if there are any black marks against your name. You wouldn't want any unexpected surprises to turn up

You say you've lived in your house for nearly 10 years - for how long have you been receiving these unwanted letters?

 

[DavidL86]

Hi All,

Thank you for the advice, it started in Sept this year and has been pretty constant as I say I've tried calling the companies but they seem to lack any customer service skills or care.

Since the names on the letters are random and not mine I find it unlikely it would affect my credit score, I have alerts on Experian on any credit activity and nothing has triggered this.

I find it odd that train companies are so lax about the evidence collection when someone breaks the rules, I tend to avoid train travel and don't think I've been on a train in probably about 10 years its just so over priced compared to driving.

 

[randyrippley]

Is there a road nearby with a similar name? Park St instead of Park Close or similar?
Try searching the letter names on https://www.192.com and see if you get any hits

 

[some bloke]

I've tried calling the companies

You could keep an ongoing list of names, and email the companies periodically with the new ones (as well as following @MikeWh 's advice). Even if they don't do anything, it's a record of your informing them.

 

[randyrippley]

Thing to watch out for is if any of these get to court as you could easily end up with Bailiffs at the door seeking unpaid fines.
Do not allow them in the building!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi All,

Thank you for the advice, it started in Sept this year and has been pretty constant as I say I've tried calling the companies but they seem to lack any customer service skills or care.

Since the names on the letters are random and not mine I find it unlikely it would affect my credit score, I have alerts on Experian on any credit activity and nothing has triggered this.

I find it odd that train companies are so lax about the evidence collection when someone breaks the rules, I tend to avoid train travel and don't think I've been on a train in probably about 10 years its just so over priced compared to driving.

I think the issue is that as there is no ID requirement in the UK the train companies can't insist on a fare dodger producing any (i suspect such dodgers just say they don't have any ID on them and nothing much can be done).

By the way - welcome to the forum.

Yes, trains are pricey but there are some good cheap deals about - now you have logged in you can peruse the other fares threads for info on them!

Sounds like you have taken reasonable action to avoid nuisance in other regards.

 

[matt_world2004]

Does your address have what sounds like an easy to make up name Eg 123 Smith Street or something like that.

 

[JBuchananGB]

I think all future letters should be returned unopened to the return address (possibly printed on the back of the envelope) marked "NOT KNOWN AT THIS ADDRESS". When I do this I also write clearly on the front of the envelope "RETURN TO:-" followed by the return address copied from the back.

I think that those which have been opened should be sent, with a covering letter, to the address shown on the letter. The covering letter should state that the enclosed correspondence was opened in error, that you are the occupier of the address and that the addressee is not known to you and has never lived at the address.

That should close the matter really.

 

[some bloke]

Is there anything I can do as at the moment I'm just accruing a decent pile of letters.

I think I'd keep records in case the problem gets worse, or it is useful in future for communications with the police or companies. One way is to take a photo of each envelope after you've written "Not known at this address", before you send it back.

If you're interested in the Postal Services Act: to be guilty of the offence, someone opening mail which they knew or reasonably suspected had been incorrectly delivered to them would have to be
"intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse",
rather than simply causing detriment.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/26/section/84

 

[4REP]

Thing to watch out for is if any of these get to court as you could easily end up with Bailiffs at the door seeking unpaid fines.
Do not allow them in the building!

you should be able to provide ID anyway to the bailiffs to prove you dont owe anything.
Also why waste time opening letters and worrying and sending emails etc etc when you can just say return to sender and just simply show your ID to any authorities to prove your not the folk there looking for when or if they show up.

 

[randyrippley]

you should be able to provide ID anyway to the bailiffs to prove you dont owe anything.
Also why waste time opening letters and worrying and sending emails etc etc when you can just say return to sender and just simply show your ID to any authorities to prove your not the folk there looking for when or if they show up.

Bailiffs have a habit of ignoring IDs, once they're given an address they'll seize goods and worry about the ownership later.
Don't let them through the door

 

[Deafdoggie]

Bailiffs have a habit of ignoring IDs, once they're given an address they'll seize goods and worry about the ownership later.
Don't let them through the door

Very rare. The compensation they would owe you if they took anything after you’d shown valid ID in your name would mean you could start a very happy retirement, even if you are only in your twenties now. I dream of them doing this, but, alas, they know their job. However, it is still best not to let them in nor leave the door open unattended as they can enter, but they can’t force entry. However, if you don’t cooperate they can get the police to force entry for them.

 

[some bloke]

why waste time...sending emails etc etc when you can just say return to sender

It's an option in case it turns out, perhaps for unforeseen reasons, to be useful to @DavidL86 or the companies. Keeping records might turn out to be of interest to the police.

lots of different names

 

[jmh59]

While drifting off topic this might be of use. On bailiffs we actually had an incident of this at our rented property. A previous tenant had used it as a service address as he was a director of a local company. He left and a new tenant moved in. He also resigned from said company. A few months on letters addressed to the company but our rented house address began to arrive and were duly put back in the post marked 'not known' etc by the tenant.

Some months on and the tenant got a 'occupier' letter from a debt collector. I had a look at that and called the bailiffs concerned to tell them the situation but all they would do is suggest the tenant kept a copy of the tenancy agreement and some ID for when they call. I even pointed out to these people the actual address of said company as listed in Companies House but they insisted the tenant keep ID handy. They never actually went round but the letters kept coming afterwards.

Something is badly wrong with the investigatory ability of these people. As previously mentioned they get an address and absolutely do not care if it is you or not, they will take stuff and get you to prove it later.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

However, if you don’t cooperate they can get the police to force entry for them.

This is not correct. The police might attend if bailiffs call, but if they do then it will only be to prevent a breach of the peace (i.e. a punch-up). They cannot use their police powers to assist in the execution of a civil writ for a debt.

The only time where forceable entry can be made to a property for a debt is for Criminal Court fines.

 

[londonbridge]

I think that those which have been opened should be sent, with a covering letter, to the address shown on the letter. The covering letter should state that the enclosed correspondence was opened in error, that you are the occupier of the address and that the addressee is not known to you and has never lived at the address.

I had to do that when a neighbour accepted a parcel which had my address,but someone elses name, whilst I was out. He didn't spot the name was wrong. There was no indication of a return address on the outside so I opened it, it was a pair of shoes that had presumably been ordered online. The delivery note had the persons name and my address, under payment details the first twelve digits of the card used were asterisked as usual, the last four that were visible didn't relate to any of my cards. I put a note in stating that I was the owner and occupier and that the person named on the delivery note was unknown to me and did not, and never has, lived at my address (it was a new build and my family are the only ones who have ever lived here, so that was easy enough). Down the post office with the returns label that was inside and sent it back, never heard anything more.

 

[Haywain]

The only time where forceable entry can be made to a property for a debt is for Criminal Court fines.

Just as well that railway ticketing offences are not criminal... Oh.

 

[thejuggler]

We have been 'victim' to this due to the numbering of our street.

One were letters about a mortgage on a neighbour's house. All were returned and when it got serious I opened one and called Northern Rock. They had a record of all the returned mail, but still didn't rectify the problem until that call.

The other started with some mail which was returned, we then had officials at the door asking for someone I didn't know - on one occasion they were waiting in a car until I returned home at about 9pm. They then revealed they were from the Court (I suspect they shouldn't have told me that info, but were obviously desperate to find the person).

I then returned home to a bailiff note - called the bailiff and they are acting on instruction from the Court. As far as they were concerned the person they were after lived at my address because the piece of paper they had said they did. I told them they didn't. I was told I had to prove who I was and they would review the situation. I asked them how me proving who I was was evidence the person they wanted didn't live at the same address.

Despite the threat they would turn up at 6.30 the next morning they never did. I suspect at some point in the paper trail someone failed to record the correct house number and letter ( or a database wouldn't accept letters in house number field) and it snowballed from there.

My advice to OP is to now ignore whatever comes. If bailiffs turn up deny all knowledge and if they won't go call the police.

 

[MikeWh]

Discussion about the legality of opening post addressed to someone else but at your address has been moved to https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-post-for-someone-not-at-your-address.196943/

 

[Master29]

We have been 'victim' to this due to the numbering of our street.

One were letters about a mortgage on a neighbour's house. All were returned and when it got serious I opened one and called Northern Rock. They had a record of all the returned mail, but still didn't rectify the problem until that call.

The other started with some mail which was returned, we then had officials at the door asking for someone I didn't know - on one occasion they were waiting in a car until I returned home at about 9pm. They then revealed they were from the Court (I suspect they shouldn't have told me that info, but were obviously desperate to find the person).

I then returned home to a bailiff note - called the bailiff and they are acting on instruction from the Court. As far as they were concerned the person they were after lived at my address because the piece of paper they had said they did. I told them they didn't. I was told I had to prove who I was and they would review the situation. I asked them how me proving who I was was evidence the person they wanted didn't live at the same address.

Despite the threat they would turn up at 6.30 the next morning they never did. I suspect at some point in the paper trail someone failed to record the correct house number and letter ( or a database wouldn't accept letters in house number field) and it snowballed from there.

My advice to OP is to now ignore whatever comes. If bailiffs turn up deny all knowledge and if they won't go call the police.

Why would it be for you to prove you live at your own address? That sounds nonsense to me. Bailiffs are usually court appointed but would have no right to make such a request as this.

 

[najaB]

I find it odd that train companies are so lax about the evidence collection when someone breaks the rules ...

How do you propose that they better confirm identify?

 

[packermac]

Why would it be for you to prove you live at your own address? That sounds nonsense to me. Bailiffs are usually court appointed but would have no right to make such a request as this.

That that is what happened to my neighbours up in London after the previous owners of the property did a midnight flit (well 0200) back to Greece. Continually proving who they were and that they now owned the property. Bailiffs' were still turning up 4 years later and on lot were quite unpleasant to me when I asked what they were doing hanging around outside my house at 0800 when I was leaving for work.

 

[londonbridge]

Could your neighbours have sued the bailiffs for harrassment maybe?

 

[jumble]

Why would it be for you to prove you live at your own address? That sounds nonsense to me. Bailiffs are usually court appointed but would have no right to make such a request as this.

Well it is a pretty good way of getting rid of the bailiffs if you prove you live there
If you don't then you will see more of them
If they do make a thing of it my advice is call the police
We had them turn up at our last address a few times when we rented for a year. We simply invited them to contact the letting agent to confirm where the previous people were

 

[Master29]

Well it is a pretty good way of getting rid of the bailiffs if you prove you live there
If you don't then you will see more of them
If they do make a thing of it my advice is call the police
We had them turn up at our last address a few times when we rented for a year. We simply invited them to contact the letting agent to confirm where the previous people were

You can do that as it's a matter of choice and it may indeed help the situation but they have no authority to say you personally need to prove you are or are not the individual they seek.