• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Keep The Train Clean!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
448
I remember one occasion at Waterloo, a young woman got on and while waiting for the train to depart consumed a full takeaway burger meal and milk shake. She disgarded the wrapping on the adjacent seat and once she had finished the meal she simply left the rubbish and went to sit at the other end of the carriage. I was amazed and I asked her to come back and clean up the mess. Obviously she did not.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

philthetube

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2016
Messages
3,762
The bins on a 142 are well located and should be used as a somewhat of an example.
The thing about Piccadilly is a good point. Why should I leave the station to get rid of my rubbish especially considering half of it is a shopping arcade with cafés and pubs?
wow, six hours and no comment about the 142 being the bin <:D
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
I use Transpennine Scottish services a lot and in fairness to them I'd say that a good proportion of their trolley staff make a couple of tours of the train to clear rubbish, a large amount of which they've sold or dispensed themselves of course.

I appreciate that there are parts of their network at certain times of day when it would be impossible to move around the train never mind collect litter.

On Scotrail there are a few trolley staff who come round specifically asking for recycling.

On that basis I'm a bit less hardline on leaving rubbish on trains than some on here. If the railway company has sold you a drink then I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect them to take away the empties. There's far more chance of the stuff getting recycled properly if it's collected in this way than if it's shoved in a bin at the end of the carriage.
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
6,089
Passengers assume that when a train reaches its destination it will be cleaned before its next service. That's one reason they leave litter on the tables.

If operators now have stupid diagramming that does not allow time for even the most rudimentary tidy up of trains between services this is the fault of the train operators, not the passengers.

For long distance services, on board staff to collect rubbish and empty the bins are essential.
 

al78

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2013
Messages
2,426
Passengers assume that when a train reaches its destination it will be cleaned before its next service. That's one reason they leave litter on the tables.

If operators now have stupid diagramming that does not allow time for even the most rudimentary tidy up of trains between services this is the fault of the train operators, not the passengers.

For long distance services, on board staff to collect rubbish and empty the bins are essential.

It is ultimately the fault of the passengers, they are the ones leaving the litter. If people were house trained, and could be bothered to take their waste with them there wouldn't be a litter problem.
 

LOL The Irony

On Moderation
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
5,335
Location
Chinatown, New York
Passengers assume that when a train reaches its destination it will be cleaned before its next service. That's one reason they leave litter on the tables.

If operators now have stupid diagramming that does not allow time for even the most rudimentary tidy up of trains between services this is the fault of the train operators, not the passengers.

For long distance services, on board staff to collect rubbish and empty the bins are essential.
It is ultimately the fault of the passengers, they are the ones leaving the litter. If people were house trained, and could be bothered to take their waste with them there wouldn't be a litter problem.
Actually both are to blame.
 

al78

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2013
Messages
2,426
On that basis I'm a bit less hardline on leaving rubbish on trains than some on here. If the railway company has sold you a drink then I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect them to take away the empties. There's far more chance of the stuff getting recycled properly if it's collected in this way than if it's shoved in a bin at the end of the carriage.

I don't see why. When I buy food from Tesco I don't dump the packaging in the store and expect them to deal with it.
 

underbank

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2013
Messages
1,486
Location
North West England
Because the person doesn't own the space, they don't really care.

I go into a lot of peoples' houses and have been known to look into parked cars as I walk past them. Even owning them yourself doesn't seem to make people keep things tidy. I've been in some real awfully disgusting houses and seen some horrendous litter strewn cars. Whether it's "theirs" or not, some people are just filthy disgusting pigs. It's nothing to do with class, wealth etc either. My immediate neighbour is a hospital consultant and he literally just empties his car once a year - usually two full bin bags of crap which he presumably only does when he can't sit it anymore - his backseat is usually piled high with empty coffee cups, sandwich containers, empty drinks cans, and other assorted litter. He buys a brand new car every few years and never even bothers having it washed - it just gets more and more grimy, marked, "weathered" etc as the months pass and then he just trades it in.
 

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,697
Location
London
Passengers assume that when a train reaches its destination it will be cleaned before its next service. That's one reason they leave litter on the tables.

If operators now have stupid diagramming that does not allow time for even the most rudimentary tidy up of trains between services this is the fault of the train operators, not the passengers.

For long distance services, on board staff to collect rubbish and empty the bins are essential.

So passenger A gets off a suburban metro mid train's journey with the expectation that the train will be cleaned at its destination, but passenger B gets on and finds the table full of rubbish but hey that's fine because the train will be cleaned at its destination.

If people eat and drink on a train, bus, in the street , in a park, on the beach then they should take their rubbish and dispose of it properly rather than expect a personal valet to run around after them.
 

Dougal2345

Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
548
I don't see why. When I buy food from Tesco I don't dump the packaging in the store and expect them to deal with it.
But if you go to a restaurant and buy and consume food, you don't take the packaging with you - a nice waiter comes and takes all the leftovers away.
 

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,697
Location
London
But if you go to a restaurant and buy and consume food, you don't take the packaging with you - a nice waiter comes and takes all the leftovers away.

And obviously a full restaurant's business model is to provide, serve and clear the meal you've ordered.

Some restaurants expect you to serve yourself and some also , more canteen style, expect you to put your tray in a designated spot.

Supermarkets and buffets/trolleys on trains are just selling you the produce for you to consume at at time of your choosing.

I'd expect a full service train restaurant to clear up after my meal, but not if I've bought a coffee and kit kat from the trolley.
 

Jonny

Established Member
Joined
10 Feb 2011
Messages
2,562
They struggle to put rubbish in bins up here full stop. Compared to other parts of England I've lived in, the North is a tip.

To be fair, there was the slight matter of the Warrington bombings where litter bins were used as places to hide the bombs. For years afterwards, stations (as well as other public places) lacked bins and the closer you get to Warrington, the more nervous people might understandably be.
 

Jonny

Established Member
Joined
10 Feb 2011
Messages
2,562
And obviously a full restaurant's business model is to provide, serve and clear the meal you've ordered.

Some restaurants expect you to serve yourself and some also , more canteen style, expect you to put your tray in a designated spot.

Supermarkets and buffets/trolleys on trains are just selling you the produce for you to consume at at time of your choosing.

I'd expect a full service train restaurant to clear up after my meal, but not if I've bought a coffee and kit kat from the trolley.

For what trolley services charge, it is closer to a full-service cafeteria (including collection of waste by staff) than a fast-food outlet.
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,072
So passenger A gets off a suburban metro mid train's journey with the expectation that the train will be cleaned at its destination, but passenger B gets on and finds the table full of rubbish but hey that's fine because the train will be cleaned at its destination.

If people eat and drink on a train, bus, in the street , in a park, on the beach then they should take their rubbish and dispose of it properly rather than expect a personal valet to run around after them.
If I'm in a park or on the beach there is typically adequate provision of bins to put the rubbish in. To reiterate, I will take the rubbish with from the train me as long as I know I can get rid of it either in the vestibule on the way out or on the platform. If there aren't vestibule bins or I think they are likely to be full, and I have no idea when or if I will encounter a bin, then I'm likely to leave it where it is, which is a location it can be relatively easily picked up from rather than ending up littering the streets. This applies double with open alcohol because I have no idea when I'm getting off the train in an area where some cooncil busybody has knocked up a by-law on public drinking.
 

otomous

Member
Joined
5 Oct 2011
Messages
444
Litter exists because people don’t take responsibility for clearing up their own mess, not because someone else didn’t take responsibility for clearing up after them.
 

greyman42

Established Member
Joined
14 Aug 2017
Messages
4,947
Passengers assume that when a train reaches its destination it will be cleaned before its next service. That's one reason they leave litter on the tables.

If operators now have stupid diagramming that does not allow time for even the most rudimentary tidy up of trains between services this is the fault of the train operators, not the passengers.

For long distance services, on board staff to collect rubbish and empty the bins are essential.
I regularly travel long distance on VTEC and they are pretty good at keeping the bins empty and tables clear due to having on board cleaners.
 

IainG81

Member
Joined
19 Mar 2017
Messages
74
I agree it's both, people should take their own little or put it in a bin not just leave it for someone else to do and train operators should give time to clean or employ more staff to clean them if there's not the time. But I know for years of experience the public are very bad at leaving things for others to clear up they just don't care.
 

tsr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
7,400
Location
Between the parallel lines
Sometimes people make a mess of some sort where they can't reasonably clean up after themselves. When I was a kid (about 9 years old or something), I puked all over a Eurostar table just as the train arrived at its destination. (There was virtually no warning - as a child, I rarely felt any warning of the onset of such illnesses - a quarter of an hour before, I'd quite happily eaten lunch.)

In these cases, although it is highly unpleasant, one has to hope the train operator has a plan to deal with it, because you don't have the kit. The same applies for accidental drink spillages or even dropping something made of a fragile material, like a glass bottle.

Leaving or dropping normal litter does not fall into the same category. It causes needless mess, a health and safety risk, damage to the TOC's reputation, and untold problems from the "broken windows" effect - once one person trashes a train, everyone else thinks it's OK.

Most trains outside inner London have bins and I agree sometimes signage could be better, but they are not normally hard to find if you take a moment to look. Bins between train seats are usually the least used - they are also generally too small, and the slide-out bin bag compartment usually comes loose and flaps around in the aisle - so I don't especially like those. There is rarely any excuse for ignoring other types of bins.
 

MCSHF007

Member
Joined
7 Dec 2015
Messages
396
Badly brought up or 'entitled' people ignore litter bins everywhere. Unrealistic to expect them to behave better on trains. As these oxygen wasters clearly expect others to clean up after them I'd be surprised if they even managed to wipe their own bottoms.
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,272
Location
St Albans
Over here where I am this week, (Copenhagen) the IC and regional trains have a hook under the small tables with a small supply of plastic bags, (yes, I know that plastic bags are being outlawed). The idea is that used cups/food wrappers are placed in the bags and cleaners pick them up at the end of the journey leaving the next bag for passengers to use. The strange thing is that the locals get this and thus keep the cars clean. Even where the bags run out, they keep it clean by taking the rubbish away with them. I somehow can't see the same discipline in the UK being the norm, (current UK self-entitlement attitudes telling them that they are much too important to deal with their own detritis).
 

gimmea50anyday

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2013
Messages
3,456
Location
Back Cab
I find it incredible that people continue to fill a toilet that is full and seemingly blocked yet make no attempt to tell the staff on board that there is a problem with the toilet.

During a ticket check One woman complained to me about soaking her knickers in the flood on the floor of the toilet so I asked her why if it was obviously full and flooding the floor why she carried on using it her answer was "i still had to go" to which i pointed out the fully functional other toilet in the next carriage! I then asked her why she hadnt mentioned it to anyone on board the train before and she answered that she couldnt find anyone, yet catering trolley had been through and so had I!
 

Jamm

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2018
Messages
33
It is normal in other industries that engineers, managers, and anybody else responsible design their services and/or products to cater to the lowest denominator of customers lest they spoil it for everyone even though it is their fault.

It would require a massive change in British culture to stop the littering. To be frank, it is also companies' fault if they refuse to cater to the lowest denominator of whoever they're serving.
 

greyman42

Established Member
Joined
14 Aug 2017
Messages
4,947
Badly brought up or 'entitled' people ignore litter bins everywhere. Unrealistic to expect them to behave better on trains. As these oxygen wasters clearly expect others to clean up after them I'd be surprised if they even managed to wipe their own bottoms.
Yes I agree. If the environment that they live in is a dump then they are hardly likely to treat someone else's any better.
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
6,089
I'm reminded of the Viz Top Tip from years ago:

Save up all of your empty beer cans for a week before making a train journey. Then pile them up on the table so that you look like an extra hard drinker.
 

underbank

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2013
Messages
1,486
Location
North West England
It is normal in other industries that engineers, managers, and anybody else responsible design their services and/or products to cater to the lowest denominator of customers lest they spoil it for everyone even though it is their fault.

It would require a massive change in British culture to stop the littering. To be frank, it is also companies' fault if they refuse to cater to the lowest denominator of whoever they're serving.

When you look at the efforts that McDonald's put into litter collection, it's clear that they're really trying. Whether it's conscience or people power or complaints, etc., they often have people emptying their bins and picking up litter around their sites. They're certainly not just blaming the customer and ignoring the problem for others to clear up. (Yes I know about littering away from their outlets, but they can't be expected to pick up litter from lay-bys miles away!). There are usually multiple bins all over McD car parks, and I very rarely find them full so they're obviously emptied regularly. They're also well designed, i.e. large openings etc and they usually have big bins on the car park exits. What more can they do? They do far more than the likes of trains and train stations yet seem to get more stick!
 

Intermodal

Established Member
Joined
3 Nov 2010
Messages
1,255
Location
I wonder how long I can make my location on this f
Several years ago at Liverpool Lime St, I asked an BTP officer what I should do with my empty coffee cup. He instructed me to just leave it on the floor as there were no bins due to the terror threat.

I know someone who did the same thing a few months ago and got fined by Liverpool City Council for doing so. Also - isn't a coffee cup on the floor just as much of a "threat" (however much that "threat" may be) as one in a bin?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top