Keep your head in!

[theironroad]

He was an enthusiast as well (volunteer at the Bluebell IIRC?), but the train involved was a Gatwick Express 442, in the Balham area.

Thanks for the info. For some reason I thought it was a charetr, but yes, it was a Gatex 442.

 

[Ze Random One]

It's very easy to have your hand rested on the handle of a mk3. I like to be ready for when the light comes on so that I can leave the train quickly.

I guess the two things are
1. If the train hasn't come to a stop, you could knock somebody who has strayed beyond the yellow line, possibly into the gap between coaches. Kids in particular are prone to wandering off at the most inopportune moments, into the daftest of places.
2. Mark 3 Central Door Locking is not failsafe. It is a secondary locking mechanism, and that is one of the reasons that handles have never been added to the interior of the mechanism.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess the two things are
1. If the train hasn't come to a stop, you could knock somebody who has strayed beyond the yellow line, possibly into the gap between coaches. Kids in particular are prone to wandering off at the most inopportune moments, into the daftest of places.
2. Mark 3 Central Door Locking is not failsafe. It is a secondary locking mechanism, and that is one of the reasons that handles have never been added to the interior of the mechanism.

Though resting your hand on the handle isn't going to open the door, you have to turn it through a full 90 degrees to do that. If he meant he had it pulled fully down and against the bolt that would be inviting trouble.

 

[yorksrob]

Though resting your hand on the handle isn't going to open the door, you have to turn it through a full 90 degrees to do that. If he meant he had it pulled fully down and against the bolt that would be inviting trouble.

No I don't bother pushing it down until the lock has come off. However, I do like to have located the handle to avoid faffing around when the time comes.

 

[yorksrob]

I guess the two things are
1. If the train hasn't come to a stop, you could knock somebody who has strayed beyond the yellow line, possibly into the gap between coaches. Kids in particular are prone to wandering off at the most inopportune moments, into the daftest of places.
2. Mark 3 Central Door Locking is not failsafe. It is a secondary locking mechanism, and that is one of the reasons that handles have never been added to the interior of the mechanism.

My arm at this stage is flat against the door. If anyone is close enough to come into contact with my hand, they're close enough to get knocked/entangled with one of the door handles anyway.

 

[Stampy]

On the multi track ECML at 125? Probably not the best idea.

Good luck with that, It's bad enough trying it at 70mph - let alone 125mph

Reminds me of a mate of mine who tried it, and lost his Ray-Ban specs at (I think) Hadley Wood between the tunnels.

Saying that, I've been on a HST or two where I've popped the window down to get some air, only to be either barged out of the way by somebody - or they will lean on YOUR back to get THEIR head out too!!!

 

[mmh]

I didn't tell her she was speaking nonsense (I was reporting here that she was), I just stated that I had my hand on the door handle ready to open it and that the door was locked anyway. She was the one being rude.

It's very easy to have your hand rested on the handle of a mk3. I like to be ready for when the light comes on so that I can leave the train quickly.

As for rail enthusiasts not behaving "sensibly", you really are talking out of the side of your hat if you think that having a hand on the door handle is in anyway a danger when coming into the platform.

The staff member has no idea that you know not to try and open the door before the train's stopped. They've just seen someone with their hand on the handle, it's pretty reasonable for them to worry that means you're trying to open it. Especially when you did it a second time.

It reminds me of one time perhaps twenty years ago where I could have caused serious injury to myself or someone else with a door. I was very used to Mk1 slam doors, using them every day. I jumped on the first train leaving London Cannon Street for the short hop to London Bridge, as the train slowed for the platform I stood next to the door and unlatched the door just before the train accelerated out and a seated passenger (it was compartment stock, probably a 4-VEP / class 423) pulled me and the door back. It didn't stop there. (What I thought would be a 5 minute journey turned into 90 minutes+!)

It was commonplace to open doors ajar before trains had completely stopped. Do I miss stock where you could do that? Yes. Do I think we should go back to it? No!

 

[yorksrob]

The staff member has no idea that you know not to try and open the door before the train's stopped. They've just seen someone with their hand on the handle, it's pretty reasonable for them to worry that means you're trying to open it. Especially when you did it a second time.

It reminds me of one time perhaps twenty years ago where I could have caused serious injury to myself or someone else with a door. I was very used to Mk1 slam doors, using them every day. I jumped on the first train leaving London Cannon Street for the short hop to London Bridge, as the train slowed for the platform I stood next to the door and unlatched the door just before the train accelerated out and a seated passenger (it was compartment stock, probably a 4-VEP / class 423) pulled me and the door back. It didn't stop there. (What I thought would be a 5 minute journey turned into 90 minutes+!)

It was commonplace to open doors ajar before trains had completely stopped. Do I miss stock where you could do that? Yes. Do I think we should go back to it? No!

I also used Mk1 rolling stock frequently back in the day. Whereas it would have been very easy to unlatch a mk1 door on approach, this would be impossible on a mk3. Not only is there the automatic lock, there is also the physical downward pressure you have to exert on the handle, which would be quite visible to someone on the platform, as opposed to having a hand rested on the handle. I think the woman was unjustified in her actions, which is borne out by the fact that I have not encountered such a display elsewhere when using mk3 stock.

 

[AlterEgo]

I also used Mk1 rolling stock frequently back in the day. Whereas it would have been very easy to unlatch a mk1 door on approach, this would be impossible on a mk3. Not only is there the automatic lock, there is also the physical downward pressure you have to exert on the handle, which would be quite visible to someone on the platform, as opposed to having a hand rested on the handle. I think the woman was unjustified in her actions, which is borne out by the fact that I have not encountered such a display elsewhere when using mk3 stock.

A staff member is entirely justified to ask you not to do that, as they don’t know you aren’t about to open the door, which for all they know in the half second it took to make a decision about talking to you may have been on the latch. I don’t see what’s so hard about not putting your hand on the door and I don’t see what’s unreasonable about them telling you off for it.

 

[yorksrob]

A staff member is entirely justified to ask you not to do that, as they don’t know you aren’t about to open the door, which for all they know in the half second it took to make a decision about talking to you may have been on the latch. I don’t see what’s so hard about not putting your hand on the door and I don’t see what’s unreasonable about them telling you off for it.

You'll have to carry on not seeing then.

 

[IanXC]

I must say, when travelling in a Mark 3 I always aim to be first at a door, and then proceed to (gingerly) put my head out as the platform comes into view. I would never, and have never, had a hand anywhere near the handle. I find there is more than enough time between coming to a stand and the doors being released to get an arm out of the door and locate the handle.

 

[yorksrob]

I must say, when travelling in a Mark 3 I always aim to be first at a door, and then proceed to (gingerly) put my head out as the platform comes into view. I would never, and have never, had a hand anywhere near the handle. I find there is more than enough time between coming to a stand and the doors being released to get an arm out of the door and locate the handle.

Surely that's more dangerous than having a hand out !

 

[IanXC]

Surely that's more dangerous than having a hand out !

Youre entirely feeling for the handle without being able to see anything outside?

 

[E_Reeves]

On approach to Newton Abbot station on HSTs, I usually stick my head out (not fully, just so I can see) as the platform comes into view and place my hand on the handle as the train goes below walking speed.

 

[yorksrob]

Youre entirely feeling for the handle without being able to see anything outside?

Yes. But it is on the platform, which I would reasonably expect to be free of tree growth etc. A head would jut out a lot further than my arm (and as others have alluded, there's the faint possibility that someone might be on the platform a bit too close to the train).

I don't stick my head out because apart from anything else, I'm looking at the indicator to see when the door's unlocked.

 

[DenmarkRail]

I mean, when I'm arriving into a station that I know well, I'll stick my head out to look, but if not, I won't incase of any station obstacles... I've also heard of times where the locks haven't worked quite right on the MK3 stock, and people have got out seconds before the train has stopped...

I tend to get to the door first, just to get the experience of opening the door

That being said, we're all making a fad out of something that has been fail safe since the first ever trains...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes. But it is on the platform, which I would reasonably expect to be free of tree growth etc. A head would jut out a lot further than my arm (and as others have alluded, there's the faint possibility that someone might be on the platform a bit too close to the train).

I don't stick my head out because apart from anything else, I'm looking at the indicator to see when the door's unlocked.

There's one on the outside and an obvious "clunk"

 

[yorksrob]

There's one on the outside and an obvious "clunk"

This is true, however I'm squeamish about sticking my head out to see the yellow light having been shown safety videos involving smashed melons !

I'm afraid the old MP3 player mitigates against hearing the clunk a lot of the time

 

[whhistle]

As for rail enthusiasts not behaving "sensibly", you really are talking out of the side of your hat if you think that having a hand on the door handle is in anyway a danger when coming into the platform.

Although I'd suggest that's subjective.

There's a lot of difference between entering a platform at 40mph with your hand out, than <15mph.
I'd have said one is quite safe, the other isn't, and wouldn't save any time as the hand would be resting there for longer, while increasing risk.

 

[duffield]

Good luck with that, It's bad enough trying it at 70mph - let alone 125mph

Reminds me of a mate of mine who tried it, and lost his Ray-Ban specs at (I think) Hadley Wood between the tunnels.
...

I lost a pair of expensive glasses 'getting some air' on an HST near Loughborough. Didn't have my head actually sticking out and I think we were only doing about 60mph, but they were just sucked clean off my face. I always imagine some bewildered farmer finding next day that 'Daisy' had somehow acquired some spectacles during the night.

 

[Master29]

In Switzerland I did it 2 weeks ago without any problems for long periods. It was fantastic and I felt like a kid again. The coach behind us had Japanese tourists who were leaning way out. I didn`t see much danger and to be honest where objects did get close it was a case of haul yourself back in. Having said that the trains weren`t travelling anywhere near 125 mph. Obviously not wise to do this in the UK especially at speed but there are many youtubers and some of which are members here who shove their cameras out of windows and this seems acceptable. Why are some seen as low life scum and others not it seems. Don`t get me wrong. I`m not advocating this type of of thing in the UK for sure but let`s be honest. Only the completely stupid would get their heads knocked off and they would stick their heads in a meat mincer anyway.

 

[mmh]

In Switzerland I did it 2 weeks ago without any problems for long periods. It was fantastic and I felt like a kid again. The coach behind us had Japanese tourists who were leaning way out. I didn`t see much danger and to be honest where objects did get close it was a case of haul yourself back in. Having said that the trains weren`t travelling anywhere near 125 mph. Obviously not wise to do this in the UK especially at speed but there are many youtubers and some of which are members here who shove their cameras out of windows and this seems acceptable. Why are some seen as low life scum and others not it seems. Don`t get me wrong. I`m not advocating this type of of thing in the UK for sure but let`s be honest. Only the completely stupid would get their heads knocked off and they would stick their heads in a meat mincer anyway.

When earlier in this thread I criticised someone for having a go at at platform staff for telling them to get their arm in, I deliberately didn't say what I wanted to, it felt like it wasn't needed. Seems it is though.

Don't ever hang out of a window of a train on the national network. If you really want to, go to perhaps the Snowdon Railway or the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch. But still be careful. The speed is irrelevant for whether it's safe or not. Make the most of an HST vestibule (inside) at 125mph if you haven't while you can though!

Why do I care about this? Because I remember in the 80s when an enthusiast was killed by looking the wrong way going into the Conwy tubular bridge (I'm from Conwy). We were horrified by it. I can't find anything on the internet about it, but it did happen (the internet often doesn't know anything about before it existed!)

Be careful and be safe, I know some of that might have sounded a bit patronising, but it's completely not meant to.

 

[TBirdFrank]

I will be 68 in a few weeks. I have been window hanging since I was in primary school

So

Am I borderine suicidal??

I am still alive and have all my faculties, head and limbs. So No.

Do I know exactly what I am doing - even if it does drive today's politically correct generation wild??

As above I would appear to have sufficient capacity and forethought to enjoy my hobby without any provable level of risk.

I don't see the point of flailing, sticking my torso out, or trying to see how close tunnel walls are - so I do not see why I should need to be told so.

Over to the Elf n Sapheteigh brigade.

 

[Steptoe]

Much of my volunteer time (when I was younger and fitter!) was spent clearing lineside vegetation and we were very conscious that part of the reason was to avoid injury to any of our passengers (at that time our carriages was exclusively MK1 & 2) as well as damage to freshly painted stock.

Nowadays as well as using some MK3 stock we have summer steam and the emphasis has shifted to avoiding damage to the steam crew (who are not slow in coming forward in mentioning any errant branches!)

There has rightly been condemnation of the practice of leaning out at mainline speeds but presumably steam crews on the national network also have to put their heads out to get signal visibility on bends etc; I would therefore suggest that if the practice is permissible for professional crews a sensible enthusiast should not be 'slapped down' for looking out at their engine (obviously steam will not be running at 125mph which is when the real danger exists)

 

[Ianno87]

There has rightly been condemnation of the practice of leaning out at mainline speeds but presumably steam crews on the national network also have to put their heads out to get signal visibility on bends etc; I would therefore suggest that if the practice is permissible for professional crews a sensible enthusiast should not be 'slapped down' for looking out at their engine (obviously steam will not be running at 125mph which is when the real danger exists)

Professional crews who are required to have, and sign as competent with, route knowledge of the route and its hazards. Which enthusiasts do not have.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Youre entirely feeling for the handle without being able to see anything outside?

Indeed all that achieves is prolonged exposure of your skin to the residue of the "Brown mist" of the non-CET toilets!

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed all that achieves is prolonged exposure of your skin to the residue of the "Brown mist" of the non-CET toilets!

Although it would be bad form for someone to be flushing when entering the platform !

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although it would be bad form for someone to be flushing when entering the platform !

Thus spake someone who forgets being a kid! Particularly good was putting a load of bog roll down the back most bog in a European train (the kind where you can see the track through the bog) and flushing just as you pass a level crossing, watching it out of the back like a load of streamers...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Although it would be bad form for someone to be flushing when entering the platform !

I was referring to the residue that's already there, rather than anything "fresh 'n' hot"!

 

[yorksrob]

Thus spake someone who forgets being a kid! Particularly good was putting a load of bog roll down the back most bog in a European train (the kind where you can see the track through the bog) and flushing just as you pass a level crossing, watching it out of the back like a load of streamers...

I only caught one of those once !