Keolis/Amey to take over Wales and Borders

[allaction]

Regarding the Manchester - Bangor (Gwynedd), could this be extended to a reopened Caernarfon?

This would then leave Mold being the sole remaining county town (Clwyd) that does not have a railway. Carmarthen (Dyfed), Swansea/Abertawe (West Glamorgan), Cardiff (both Mid Glamorgan and South Glamorgan), Newport (Gwent), and Llandrindod Wells (Powys) are county towns of Wales that are presently connected to the railway network.

Dyfed was replaced by Carmarthenshire, Pembrokeshire and Cardiganshire decades ago. Haverfordwest is the county town of Pembrokeshire and has a train service.

 

[adrock1976]

Clwyd hasn't existed for 22 years!

I've seen plenty of items addressed to Wrexham, Clwyd.

When I was at primary school many moons ago, the eight counties of Wales were Gwynedd, Clwyd, Powys, Gwent, Mid Glamorgan, South Glamorgan, West Glamorgan, and Dyfed. I believe they are still in existence, but do not perform county council wide functions anymore meaning that there is no co-ordination between the districts within the counties?

 

[sw1ller]

I've seen plenty of items addressed to Wrexham, Clwyd.

When I was at primary school many moons ago, the eight counties of Wales were Gwynedd, Clwyd, Powys, Gwent, Mid Glamorgan, South Glamorgan, West Glamorgan, and Dyfed. I believe they are still in existence, but do not perform county council wide functions anymore meaning that there is no co-ordination between the districts within the counties?

I get many letters with Clwyd on. I never use it though. It depends what system the company sending the letter uses I suppose.

 

[Robertj21a]

They aren't allowed on either, so wherever you have seen that, the people were breaking the rules and were running the risk of being kicked off at the next stop.



In future years serving other places - yes. Right now, serving places already served by HR but via a much longer, more time consuming and congested route (which is what some people, including some suggestions from the WG have suggested) - madness.

Fair enough, if bikes aren't allowed. Seems odd that it happens then, as Sheffield has on-board conductors and Nottingham has very frequent revenue checks.
At least you can see that future light rail development, to serve other places, is a realistic possibility. That's all I've been trying to say and it's a shame that some just can't/won't understand it.

 

[Dai Corner]

I've seen plenty of items addressed to Wrexham, Clwyd.

When I was at primary school many moons ago, the eight counties of Wales were Gwynedd, Clwyd, Powys, Gwent, Mid Glamorgan, South Glamorgan, West Glamorgan, and Dyfed. I believe they are still in existence, but do not perform county council wide functions anymore meaning that there is no co-ordination between the districts within the counties?

These counties were replaced with 22 Unitary Authorities which combine the County and District functions. The names live on for some purposes , eg Gwent Police.

I think it's only the DVLA who still insist on including Newport, Gwent in my address.

We're getting off topic so I better shut up!

 

[PR1Berske]

You've not answered the question that was put in the previous post, rather having answered the one that you would have liked to have been asked.

It was a very straightforward "yes" or "no" answer.

Okay, then. "No."

I pointed out that there is a fairly extensive ammount of documents published that so not point to any chance of a reopening under the new franchise. A chance could only appear imo if the new franchise arrangement considered it amongst their aspirations for the future.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why raise the issue of carrying bikes when you have no knowledge of what the arrangements will be ?

It's a valid concern, because no UK trams currently carry bikes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've seen plenty of items addressed to Wrexham, Clwyd.

The Post Office can work from house number and postcode alone, so other than as a checksum the rest gets ignored.

 

[transmanche]

I've seen plenty of items addressed to Wrexham, Clwyd.

And some people still use Ashford, Middlesex - even though the county was 'abolished' 53 years ago.

Postal addresses are not the same as geographical addresses. And the Royal Mail says you can use old or new counties when addressing post (or no county at all) as they simply ignore it anyway!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Clwyd was divided (back) into Denbighshire, Flintshire and Wrexham (with a bit going to Conwy) in 1996, though there's still Clwyd Theatr Cymru at Mold which is supported buy all the former districts.
Neither Mold nor Ruthin have rail services.
In any case a further reorganisation with fewer authorities is very likely in the near future, but predictably the current unitary authorities aren't rushing to volunteer to merge.
Personally I preferred the Clwyd setup, especially when the Mold recycling depot insists it's "Flintshire residents only" (I live a mile across the border in Denbighshire).
But there's surely no connection between "county town", whatever that means, and having a railway station.
Anglesey's "capital" is Llangefni, and that hasn't got a rail service either.
Boundaries are very blurred up here with a significant chunk of "Clwyd" having a Chester STD code and a CH postcode.
I think we established in another thread that extending back to Caernarfon from Bangor was just about feasible. but not on the old alignment all the way, or at Caernarfon itself.

 

[emoaconr]

Clwyd hasn't existed for 22 years!

Clwyd still exists, along with the other 7, as a 'preserved county', which plays a similar role to the 'ceremonial counties' in England. This is a legal establishment and is in use for a number of purposes such as lieutenancy, fishing and constituency boundary planning. Until a law is passed that these have been abolished, they continue to exist (they were infact modified by a 2003 act which enlarged both Clwyd and Gwent). The 1996 authorites, whilst sometimes styled as "counties", reflect little nature of a historical or ceremonial county, and many more so represent former district councils. They are likely to be abolished and returned to an 8/9/10 "county" system by 2021 anyhow.

Mold always seemed a fairly easy one to reconnect via Penyffordd junction with Wrexham, what is the largest town in North Wales. It does baffle me how this fairly short line closed only in the 1980s and the pointwork at Penyffordd remained intact until as late as 2016. In my opinion, having Mold as a commuter service onto the Wrexham-Bidston line would have benefitted the southern half of the line and perhaps allowed a more varied stopping pattern over the rest of it - alas this was not to be. Mold to Wrexham is only served by the single Arriva 26 bus (there are a couple of infrequent others from other operators) and having commuted between the two some years ago, I know how much of an unreliable yet busy service this an be.

 

[bluegoblin7]

It's a valid concern, because no UK trams currently carry bikes.

Edinburgh explicitly allows non-folding bicycles outside of peak hours, Blackpool allows non-folding bicycles at the conductor's discretion (generally acceptable if the tram isn't busy). All tramways allow folding bicycles at any time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Blackpool don't:

Scooters/Bikes

Please note unfolded bikes and scooters cannot be carried on trams or buses due to the difficulty of stowing them safely on our vehicles.

Fold up bikes and scooters can be carried as long as they are folded, in a case and can be stowed safely. They will then be constituted as an item of luggage.

https://www.blackpooltransport.com/accessibility-information

You're right about Edinburgh though, so it clearly isn't for generalised safety reasons.

Folded bikes in a case or bag are luggage so are carried on any mode of transport allowing a piece of luggage of that size/shape/weight. I believe Metrolink does insist on the case/bag, or at least did.

 

[sw1ller]

The welsh government are rather keen on cycling so I think the trams will have provisions in place. Conjecture of course. But as an example, the Wrexham bidston line stops at hawarden bridge on every journey on a Sunday. This was brought in to encourage people to use their bikes and use the cycle path. I know it’s not comparable, deeside and Cardiff are completely different places but I’d be very surprised if they refused bikes with the increased frequency. I also think, even given their similar size, they’ll be much roomier than a pacer.

 

[Dai Corner]

It looks like the Keolis Amey presentation has been taken down. Did anyone save it?

http://www.keolisamey.cymru/media/1046/ams-wb-overview-presentation.pdf

 

[topydre]

It looks like the Keolis Amey presentation has been taken down. Did anyone save it?

http://www.keolisamey.cymru/media/1046/ams-wb-overview-presentation.pdf

I tried saving it earlier but noticed that the file location no longer existed. I therefore screenshoted each of the 44 pages.

I should probably get a life...

 

[gareth950]

It looks like the Keolis Amey presentation has been taken down. Did anyone save it?

http://www.keolisamey.cymru/media/1046/ams-wb-overview-presentation.pdf

Why on earth was it taken down though? Surely the cloak and dagger secrecy has now ended?

Luckily I saved it, but the file is too large to upload. PM me with your email address if you want a copy.

 

[Dai Corner]

Why on earth was it taken down though? Surely the cloak and dagger secrecy has now ended?

Luckily I saved it, but the file is too large to upload. PM me with your email address if you want a copy.

I'd guess from the file name that it was a presentation given to AMs and no longer required? Glad you had the foresight to save it though. PM sent.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Mold always seemed a fairly easy one to reconnect via Penyffordd junction with Wrexham, what is the largest town in North Wales. It does baffle me how this fairly short line closed only in the 1980s and the pointwork at Penyffordd remained intact until as late as 2016. In my opinion, having Mold as a commuter service onto the Wrexham-Bidston line would have benefitted the southern half of the line and perhaps allowed a more varied stopping pattern over the rest of it - alas this was not to be. Mold to Wrexham is only served by the single Arriva 26 bus (there are a couple of infrequent others from other operators) and having commuted between the two some years ago, I know how much of an unreliable yet busy service this an be.

The old route from Penyffordd to Mold has deteriorated a lot and has been built on at the Mold end (severed by the A494 bypass and industrial/housing estates in the last half mile, plus Tesco now occupy the station site).
While commuting destinations from the Mold area are varied, Chester is till the dominant focus.
But the Mold Jn-Penyffordd route has been even more overbuilt than at the Mold end, with new housing estates/retail parks in the way.
Not to mention the Airbus factory site at Broughton, where the route is part of the staff car park.
The old village stations are in private ownership (Broughton station is now a dental practice).

 

[krus_aragon]

Regarding the Manchester - Bangor (Gwynedd), could this be extended to a reopened Caernarfon?.

Yes, or to Llangefni. In the meantime, Bangor has plenty of capacity for terminating services and doing so dodges the more expensive issues of the long block section between Gaerwen and Valley and the single track over the Britannia Bridge.

 

[KashmireHawker]

VivaRail formally have announced they will supply the Class 230's: http://vivarail.co.uk/vivarail-announce-new-order-for-wales-and-borders/

 

[mmh]

“Our trains will come into service in summer 2019 and will form the flagship fleet for Wales and Borders and I look forward to taking the first journey in North Wales next year."

Flagship!

 

[berneyarms]

Interesting that it mentions that they will serve the Conwy Valley, Chester-Crewe and Borderlands Line. Given its 5 sets, with one spare, clearly at least two Class 150s must be retained initially on the Borderlands route.

 

[northwichcat]

Interesting that it mentions that they will serve the Conwy Valley, Chester-Crewe and Borderlands Line. Given its 5 sets, with one spare, clearly at least two Class 150s must be retained initially on the Borderlands route.

I'm guessing using D-Trains on Chester-Crewe and Conwy Valley is an interim measure until the Borderlands enhancements start in 2021, so Borderlands will need 2 D-Trains initially and then 4 by 2023 and by 2021 they'll be alternative stock for Chester-Crewe and Conwy Valley.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm guessing using D-Trains on Chester-Crewe and Conwy Valley is an interim measure until the Borderlands enhancements start in 2021, so Borderlands will need 2 D-Trains initially and then 4 by 2023 and by 2021 they'll be alternative stock for Chester-Crewe and Conwy Valley.

That could well be the case - the existing Borderlands service can be operated using 3 units (running time is 61 minutes, so 2 is inadequate), leaving 2 for use elsewhere, and 153s to substitute for a failure.

 

[oglord]

This would then leave Mold being the sole remaining county town (Clwyd) that does not have a railway. Carmarthen (Dyfed), Swansea/Abertawe (West Glamorgan), Cardiff (both Mid Glamorgan and South Glamorgan), Newport (Gwent), and Llandrindod Wells (Powys) are county towns of Wales that are presently connected to the railway network.

MY EYES! Neither so-called "preserved counties", nor local government areas have "county towns", because neither of those things are actually counties.

Here is a list of county towns in Britain and Ireland: https://wikishire.co.uk/wiki/County_town and a handy map: https://wikishire.co.uk/map/

It is left as an exercise for the reader to determine which of the real county towns has a rail service.

 

[krus_aragon]

With an introduction of Summer 2019, they might arrive in the Conwy Valley in time for the National Eisteddfod, which will be visiting Llanrwst.

(I also hope for a bit more than the current 3-hourly service for that week. All ye planners who read this forum, take note that you can run a shuttle service between North Llanrwst and Llandudno Junction/Llandudno while the regular service is heading to/from Blaenau.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

(I also hope for a bit more than the current 3-hourly service for that week. All ye planners who read this forum, take note that you can run a shuttle service between North Llanrwst and Llandudno Junction/Llandudno while the regular service is heading to/from Blaenau.)

If no spare unit was available it'd probably be sensible to operate Llandudno Jn-Betws only as a shuttle, with bustitution for the lower section and something else serving Llandudno.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

With an introduction of Summer 2019, they might arrive in the Conwy Valley in time for the National Eisteddfod, which will be visiting Llanrwst.

(I also hope for a bit more than the current 3-hourly service for that week. All ye planners who read this forum, take note that you can run a shuttle service between North Llanrwst and Llandudno Junction/Llandudno while the regular service is heading to/from Blaenau.)

As a young kid I was at the last Llanrwst Eisteddfod which was when the current Llanrwst station opened and was the reason for it being built. 1989 I reckon or there abouts.
Class 101 I think.....great trip up hanging out of the window on a hot summers day. I remember waiting for the train on the way back he station was so busy we were all sat on the platform with our legs dangling over. (not so dangerous on a single track and the approach at less than 10mph)

 

[krus_aragon]

MY EYES! Neither so-called "preserved counties", nor local government areas have "county towns", because neither of those things are actually counties.

Here is a list of county towns in Britain and Ireland: https://wikishire.co.uk/wiki/County_town and a handy map: https://wikishire.co.uk/map/

It is left as an exercise for the reader to determine which of the real county towns has a rail service.

I'd take that list with a pinch of salt: Beaumaris hasn't been considered the County/Shire Town of Anglesey for at least a century. (viz. the move of the County Court to Llangefni in the Victorian era, and the opening of the new Shire Hall in 1899.)