KeyGo not charging the cheapest option

[Iggy12a]

According to the Southern website, KeyGo is meant to look at the journeys you make for a day, and then work out the cheapest price for tickets which would have covered your routing.

KeyGo | Southern Railway

Make your key smartcard even smarter with keyGo automatic ticketing and payment.

www.southernrailway.com

Got a Key Smartcard already? Once registered for keyGo, just tap in and out as you travel, and we’ll calculate the best fare for you at the end of the day!

In my case it has worked out the most expensive!

I needed to travel off peak from Bognor Regis to Gatwick and back again, the same day. Whilst I was at Gatwick I found out that the person who was picking me up at the station wanted to pick me up from Chichester, so I travelled back to Chichester and tapped out there.

The system has charged me £10.35 single from Bognor to Gatwick and £11.90 single from Gatwick to Chichester (with Senior Railcard). Had I bought paper tickets I would have bought a Bognor to Gatwick off peak day return for £10.40 and then on the way back, purchased a Barnham to Chichester single for £3.

I contacted Customer Services pointing out their claim that the KeyGo should calculate the cheapest option and received the following reply:

On checking your journey, I can see the full journey you made on this date was between Bognor Regis and Chichester via Gatwick Airport. Because the ticket price you have quoted between Bognor Regis and Chichester is not valid for travel via Gatwick Airport, KeyGo calculates your fare individually between Bognor Regis and Gatwick Airport and then Gatwick Airport to Chichester.

KeyGo calculates your fare based on the time and stations you tap in and out of on your journey, and uses the cheapest fare which is also valid for each journey you made. Becuase this has been the case above, I will not be able to offer you a refund on any difference in fare quoted.

Once again, thank you for getting in touch and I hope my email clarifies our position.

How do I escalate this or am I wrong?

 

[Starmill]

The only real option is to reply asking for them to review your complaint on the basis of the statement about the best fare, which you have relied upon but feel wasn't provided.

If they refuse again then you may ask for a so-called deadlock letter to allow you to take the complaint to the Rail Ombudsman.

 

[Hadders]

I'm not confident you'll win this as I doubt KeyGo covers finishing short.

Of course you can do this with a paper ticket but PAYG systems don't do this.

 

[paul1609]

Technically I think Keygo is charging you the correct fare. To get the cheaper fare you should have tapped out and then back in again at Barnham like you would to buy the paper tickets. If your train stopped at Ford the validators are actually on the platform at the level crossing end.

 

[Starmill]

I'm not confident you'll win this as I doubt KeyGo covers finishing short.

Of course you can do this with a paper ticket but PAYG systems don't do this.

But it says "we'll calculate the best fare" and that's clearly not been done.

For example, it could have charged:

Bognor Regis to Barnham Anytime Day Single £2
Barnham to Gatwick Airport Off Peak Day Return £10.40
Barnham to Chichester Anytime Day Single £3

£15.40 - substantially less than what was charged and in keeping with the claim on the website.

 

[Iggy12a]

Technically I think Keygo is charging you the correct fare. To get the cheaper fare you should have tapped out and then back in again at Barnham like you would to buy the paper tickets. If your train stopped at Ford the validators are actually on the platform at the level crossing end.

I did ask in my query to Customer Services whether I should have tapped out and in again at Barnham, and would it have made any difference if I had, but he never responded to that (probably because he doesn't know)

 

[OscarH]

I'm not confident you'll win this as I doubt KeyGo covers finishing short.

It does actually catch finishing short in the simple cases (eg Barnham to Littlehampton, then Littlehampton to Chichester)

 

[Bletchleyite]

But it says "we'll calculate the best fare" and that's clearly not been done.

For example, it could have charged:

Bognor Regis to Barnham Anytime Day Single £2
Barnham to Gatwick Airport Off Peak Day Return £10.40
Barnham to Chichester Anytime Day Single £3

£15.40 - substantially less than what was charged and in keeping with the claim on the website.

The best fare, not combination thereof.

 

[Starmill]

The best fare, not combination thereof.

The system did include a combination of fares. Just an overpriced one.

 

[paul1609]

The system did include a combination of fares. Just an overpriced one.

Realistically it saw two seperate journeys as the origin/ terminal stations were 6 miles apart. Its PAYG on a point to point fares system rather than a zonal system like oyster or tfl contactless.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The system did include a combination of fares. Just an overpriced one.

No, it saw two separate single journeys, which is not the same as expecting it to act like Trainsplit.

 

[Starmill]

No, it saw two separate single journeys, which is not the same as expecting it to act like Trainsplit.

Did the customer make two separate single journeys? And the words in use are "we’ll calculate the best fare for you at the end of the day!" i.e a very similar claim to trainsplit. Of course it's not actually acting like Trainsplit at aoo because that's not the cheapest combination. It's instead offering the price that the ticket office would do, charging you for what you used rather than for two singles.

The opportunity for this sort of overcharging wouldn't have arisen in the first place if they just charged half of the return for each pay as you go journey, in common with everywhere sensible.

Realistically it saw two seperate journeys as the origin/ terminal stations were 6 miles apart. Its PAYG on a point to point fares system rather than a zonal system like oyster or tfl contactless.

The zones aren't what calculates the fares on Oyster and Contactless. They are charged according to the stations you travel between.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The opportunity for this sort of overcharging wouldn't have arisen in the first place if they just charged half of the return for each pay as you go journey, in common with everywhere sensible.

Certainly it's yet another argument for single fare pricing.

 

[pepperpot80]

Fundamentally a day return from Bognor to Gatwick isn't valid via Chichester, and the system isn't telepathic, nor merrily doing a TrainSplit for every keyGo customer (much as that would be A Good Thing).

keyGo won't split a fare for it, but if you had tapped out at Barnham and tapped back in again (appreciate this is thoroughly impractical and counter-intuitive), you probably would have got the outcome you were looking for. The system is designed to act in line with the ticket sales guidance, namely that an agent *shouldn't* sell you a split unless you specifically request it.

I suspect if you appeal the complaint someone further up the chain might be empowered to have a sudden attack of common sense.

Edit: unfortunate spelling error.

 

[kieron]

To be fair, Trainsplit wouldn't find the cheapest combination either. It looks for return tickets if you say you want to go from A to B and back again, but otherwise it just offers singles.

 

[Starmill]

To be fair, Trainsplit wouldn't find the cheapest combination either. It looks for return tickets if you say you want to go from A to B and back again, but otherwise it just offers singles.

Indeed in this example - although it will often offer a return ticket type if the journey in question only uses the outward portion, and discards the return portion.

 

[Iggy12a]

I suspect if you appeal the complaint someone further up the chain might be empowered to have a sudden attack of common sense.

As you suspected, common sense has prevailed and as a one off gesture of goodwill they are refunding me such that I was charged a day return from Bognor to Gatwick plus a single from Barnham to Chichester.

 

[Surreytraveller]

As you suspected, common sense has prevailed and as a one off gesture of goodwill they are refunding me such that I was charged a day return from Bognor to Gatwick plus a single from Barnham to Chichester.

I'd complain about it being a 'gesture of goodwill'. Its obviously a design fault in the system

 

[miklcct]

Its obviously a design fault in the system

The fault is to have return tickets not exactly 2x of the single in the system which allow break of journey.

This is incompatible with PAYG ticketing as the system needs to make up a hidden destination (i.e. hidden city ticketing) for it to work.

 

[Surreytraveller]

The fault is to have return tickets not exactly 2x of the single in the system which allow break of journey.

This is incompatible with PAYG ticketing as the system needs to make up a hidden destination (i.e. hidden city ticketing) for it to work.

Or the system needs to be set up as 'pseudo-zones', so that in a situation like this, both Chichester and Bognor would be in the same zone, and the system would charge based on that

 

[Iggy12a]

keyGo won't split a fare for it, but if you had tapped out at Barnham and tapped back in again (appreciate this is thoroughly impractical and counter-intuitive), you probably would have got the outcome you were looking for.

I sent one further email asking if tapping out and in again at Barnham would have had the desired effect.

They replied that they didn't know, and to avoid be overcharged by KeyGo to stick with paper tickets for an itinerary such as this.

 

[infobleep]

I sent one further email asking if tapping out and in again at Barnham would have had the desired effect.

They replied that they didn't know, and to avoid be overcharged by KeyGo to stick with paper tickets for an itinerary such as this.

Given something might unexpectedly change, best to stick with paper tickets to be on the safe side, if one takes that to it's logical conclusion.

 

[MrJeeves]

I'm not confident you'll win this as I doubt KeyGo covers finishing short.

For future reference, it does! I regularly use keyGo on the Brighton Mainline, and have no issues with either starting my journey late or ending my journey early, and get charged the return appropriate.

For example, Burgess Hill to Gatwick, then Gatwick to Wivelsfield gets charged correctly, as does Wivelsfield to Brighton, then Brighton to Burgess Hill. I used to also do this going to Brighton, then coming back from Preston Park, and varying my home station between Burgess Hill and Wivelsfield randomly, and never was mischarged.

I do appreciate it probably won't pick up more complex start/end late/early's, though, but it does correctly charge me (either that, or undercharge me!) for "adventurous" breaks of journey.