King's Cross-York non stop

[Harlesden]

Is this the longest (by distance) stretch of non stop running on the network?
If a driver was (somehow) able to maintain maximum line speed throughout and seemed set to arrive at York 10 minutes early, would that be a problem in a rule book context, or would he begin taking his foot off the gas after Doncaster to avoid an early arrival at York?
If a confused passenger boarded this train at King's Cross, believing it would be stopping at Doncaster, how would an on-train ticket inspector handle this?

 

[junglejames]

Newcastle to KGX is further!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for how the guard would deal with passengers who wanted to get off at Donny. They would tell them to get off at York and head back. Not many guards are harsh enough to charge you extra, but I suppose they could do if they felt so inclined.

 

[HSTEd]

Its either Newcastle-London or Preston-London methinks, or possibly Watford Junction to Edinburgh depending on whether or not the sleeper is stopping at Carlisle.

 

[Schnellzug]

Do Virgin still do glasgow-Euston non-stop? They did once, didn't they, I think.


If it was running that early, i'm pretty sure it'd run into signal checks, so it'd be unlikely to stay that early right through to York.

 

[GNERman]

Is this the longest (by distance) stretch of non stop running on the network?

Nope, 0703 from Newcastle to Kings Cross is non stop...

Or what about the Glasgow sleeper...

 

[dk1]

Do Virgin still do glasgow-Euston non-stop? They did once, didn't they, I think.


If it was running that early, i'm pretty sure it'd run into signal checks, so it'd be unlikely to stay that early right through to York.

Virgin only did it as the 'Angels' to raise money for clic Seargent i believe & to highlight the WCML upgrade. It did it in 3h55m. They do have one down train daily at 16.30 SX which calls Preston only.

East coast one run up train daily at 05.40 SX from Edinburgh & that is fast from Newcastle to the Cross.

 

[HSTEd]

Glasgow sleeper is probably shorter than the Edinburgh sleeper because Carstairs is quite far west I think and both components run up the West Coast Main Line.

 

[DarloRich]

Do Virgin still do glasgow-Euston non-stop? They did once, didn't they, I think.


If it was running that early, i'm pretty sure it'd run into signal checks, so it'd be unlikely to stay that early right through to York.

Not always - i have been on the 1648 GC off the Cross and that train often flys along.

The best trip was earlier this year. I think it was the quickest time i have done Kings Cross - York. It was RA, power on and full bore all the way into York at before 1830 (It then stood for ages at York) I dont think the driver lifted off until after Colton Junction.

Although the acceleration felt better last night being an HST + 4!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I should think the Scotrail sleepers when on divert via the ECML (ie Edinburgh-Euston) could be candidates - no intermediate stops.
However I expect they wil be remanned somewhere en route.

I think VT actually ran extra trains non-stop Glasgow-Euston (and maybe Edinburgh-Euston) during the ash-cloud period and Heathrow snow trouble.
Again they probably remanned somewhere (Preston).

 

[driver9000]

Is this the longest (by distance) stretch of non stop running on the network?
If a driver was (somehow) able to maintain maximum line speed throughout and seemed set to arrive at York 10 minutes early, would that be a problem in a rule book context, or would he begin taking his foot off the gas after Doncaster to avoid an early arrival at York?
If a confused passenger boarded this train at King's Cross, believing it would be stopping at Doncaster, how would an on-train ticket inspector handle this?

If the train is given the road by the signalman then there is nothing wrong with arriving early. I'd run at linespeed if possible and its certainly not against any rules.

 

[Geezertronic]

I think VT actually ran extra trains non-stop Glasgow-Euston (and maybe Edinburgh-Euston) during the ash-cloud period and Heathrow snow trouble.
Again they probably remanned somewhere (Preston).

A stop for a crew change wouldn't qualify as a non stop run though would it?

 

[Schnellzug]

A stop for a crew change wouldn't qualify as a non stop run though would it?

Can they hand over on the move, like the LNER used to with the Flying Scotsman, or isn't that allowed nowadays?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A stop for a crew change wouldn't qualify as a non stop run though would it?

Yes that would disqualify these nominally "non-stop" runs.
In which case you are left with the rules on drivers' hours (whatever they are) as the limiting factor.

Another candidate might be the class 325 postal trains Willesden-Shieldmuir (if they don't call at Warrington, and are not remanned en route).

 

[Max]

Certainly not the longest, but I had a brilliant non-stop run between Doncaster and King's Cross a couple of weeks back. 1 hour and 28 minutes, could have been even quicker if we hadn't had a little slow running around Huntingdon!

 

[driver9000]

Can they hand over on the move, like the LNER used to with the Flying Scotsman, or isn't that allowed nowadays?

Not allowed. It wouldn't be easy to do either in a modern driving cab with a DSD that only gives a few seconds before timing out and the brakes are applied. Picture a Driver trying to get out of the seat while keeping his foot on the DSD while another Driver tries to get into the seat also trying to get his foot on the DSD so the other Driver can take his off, and keeping watch of the road for signals, signage, p/way men etc - at 125mph!

 

[Geezertronic]

Anybody know if the CLIC Sargent run by VT was non stop or had a crew change midway?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Anybody know if the CLIC Sargent run by VT was non stop or had a crew change midway?

Non-stop all the way. They could easily shave another 7 or so minutes off if they were to repeat it now.

 

[Minilad]

Not allowed. It wouldn't be easy to do either in a modern driving cab with a DSD that only gives a few seconds before timing out and the brakes are applied. Picture a Driver trying to get out of the seat while keeping his foot on the DSD while another Driver tries to get into the seat also trying to get his foot on the DSD so the other Driver can take his off, and keeping watch of the road for signals, signage, p/way men etc - at 125mph!

They had better be very good friends. If they are not at the start of the manoeuvre they will be by the end of it !

 

[northrob]

Anybody know if the CLIC Sargent run by VT was non stop or had a crew change midway?

If I remember correctly there were two drivers on the service and they were going to changeover en route. However, just before departure the first driver said that he would work it throughout.

 

[driver9000]

Anybody know if the CLIC Sargent run by VT was non stop or had a crew change midway?

Same Driver (a Preston man) throughout too - Railway Magazine filmed it.

 

[142094]

Before EC brought in the Newcastle - KGX non-stop we were commenting on how well we thought it would be used - anyone been on recently to see how it is fairing since it was introduced?

 

[Lampshade]

Same Driver (a Preston man) throughout too - Railway Magazine filmed it.

I think only Preston crews sign north of Lancaster, which is why there's no crew change on Lancaster terminators, what's the point in that? hock:

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think only Preston crews sign north of Lancaster, which is why there's no crew change on Lancaster terminators, what's the point in that? hock:

Polmadie (Glasgow) and Edinburgh men sign Preston-Scotland too

 

[driver9000]

I think only Preston crews sign north of Lancaster, which is why there's no crew change on Lancaster terminators, what's the point in that? hock:

Glasgow and Edinburgh crews obviously do too

Preston is the only VT depot to sign both ends of the WCML though. I'll have to check but I think the Lancaster terminating services change crew on the way back south.

 

[Barrett M95]

Not allowed. It wouldn't be easy to do either in a modern driving cab with a DSD that only gives a few seconds before timing out and the brakes are applied. Picture a Driver trying to get out of the seat while keeping his foot on the DSD while another Driver tries to get into the seat also trying to get his foot on the DSD so the other Driver can take his off, and keeping watch of the road for signals, signage, p/way men etc - at 125mph!

I have seen it done - no joke. But not in the UK.

 

[Lampshade]

They could have dual controls like in light aircraft so a driver could 'take over'

 

[A-driver]

You can swap on the move by using a DSD holdover button. Not sure if all stock has this but 377s and 456s do. Have done it a few times when in training with a DI for various reasons. Probably not strictly allowed but can't see any problem doing it.

Think the issue is more that the relieving driver needs to be on the train anyway so you are basically double manning the service the whole way which is less economical than putting a stop in en route as both drivers can then go on to do something else rather than spend the rest of the trip travelling pass.

And something like non stop London-Glasgow etc...they then need to get home again afterwards.