Labour MP murdered in shooting/stabbing incident

[Railops]

Because, as with the term 'loony' it is a general perjorative term for anyone with a Mental Health issue...and also a number of forum members have indicated that they have problems with their Mental Health, it is not a word I would have used in my professional career etc etc.
I am not sparing his feelings, I just feel that appropriate terminology, rather than deprecatory terms should be used. This has been mentioned on other threads.

Really ? PC nonsense, I don't really care if you wouldn't have used the perfectly acceptable word there are far worse.
I see it and worse on here every day but I expect when certain posters use it that's fine by you.

 

[EM2]

Really ? PC nonsense, I don't really care if you wouldn't have used the perfectly acceptable word there are far worse.
I see it and worse on here every day but I expect when certain posters use it that's fine by you.

So if the accused had been black, you would think it OK to use the N-word? Or if he had been physically disabled, to call him a spaz or a flid, or worse?
If you 'see it and worse on here every day', why don't you report it?

 

[TheKnightWho]

Means nothing, until he's charged with terrorism he's just a nut case with a grudge.

Even if he was he still has to be convicted although I see he already has been on here.

Conveniently something that can't happen until after the referendum.

Funny how this has never stopped you with any Muslims killings, though! You're a hypocrite, and nothing more. It says a lot that it's only the real Brexit fanatics that seem so obsessed with this, when even Farage described it as terrorism.

 

[Johnuk123]

Watching Corbyn live just now he did quite a good job of sitting on the fence and not really pushing the EU at all.
It was the first leaders EU debate where the speaker gave the impression he wasn't that bothered either way.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You're a hypocrite, and nothing more.

Thank you that is one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me.

 

[lejog]

Means nothing, until he's charged with terrorism he's just a nut case with a grudge.

Even if he was he still has to be convicted although I see he already has been on here.

Complete and utter rubbish. He's been charged with murder. "Terrorism offences" are lesser offences which are brought when terrorists are caught before committing a violent attack.

The killers of Lee Rigby were charged with murder, not "terrorist" offences. Are you going to argue they were just nut cases with a grudge, not terrorists?

Terrorism "protocols" means that the case will be dealt with more quickly and trials subject to enhanced security.

 

[Zoidberg]

Because, as with the term 'loony' it is a general perjorative term for anyone with a Mental Health issue...and also a number of forum members have indicated that they have problems with their Mental Health, it is not a word I would have used in my professional career etc etc.
I am not sparing his feelings, I just feel that appropriate terminology, rather than deprecatory terms should be used. This has been mentioned on other threads.

(a) because people are human beings, and remain so, no matter what crimes they have committed.

... etc ...

Don't get me wrong, what the guy who killed Jo Cox did was absolutely horrendous, and I hope he gets the kind of sentence that will seriously make other people think twice about committing the same kind of violence. But to my mind, dehumanizing *anyone* by using terms such as 'loony' to describe them is wrong.

I don't subscribe to this PC nonsense. But thanks for your observations.

 

[EM2]

I don't subscribe to this PC nonesense. But thanks for your observations.

So it's OK to call anyone anything that you like?

 

[Zoidberg]

So it's OK to call anyone anything that you like?

Not so much what I like, as what they are. In this case, is he not a "nut case", "a loony", or is he in a balanced mental state?

 

[Harbornite]

Not so much what I like, as what they are. In this case, is he not a "nut case", "a loony", or is he in a balanced mental state?

I can see what you and the more "PC" people here are trying to say,
the issue is that by referring to his mental problems with such terms, it could be interpreted as also being an insult to others with the same mental problems. However, personally I don't see any issues with calling the murderer a nutcase or loony.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Not so much what I like, as what they are. In this case, is he not a "nut case", "a loony", or is he in a balanced mental state?

Have you got any actual response? There is empirical evidence that using slurs does actually breed hate - it's not just "PC nonsense" because it's something you hadn't thought about before.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I can see what you and the more "PC" people here are trying to say,
the issue is that by referring to his mental problems with such terms, it could be interpreted as also being an insult to others with the same mental problems. However, personally I don't see any issues with calling the murderer a nutcase or loony.

The issue is not so much that it associates him with others who also have mental problems, but that it encourages us to dehumanise them. It encourages to think of them as part of the out-group - Other to us, instead of being people that we can empathise with and understand. Using adjectives as nouns is a really common way to do this: calling someone "a black" is reeeeally offensive, whereas calling them "a black person" is absolutely fine - mostly because the former dehumanises them, and places them in the Out group.

It's also the same reason people love coming up with stupid terms for their opponents: everything from "the Huns" to "Brexiters" comes under this category, and people do it because it makes it easy to think of them as this homogeneous group that has nothing to do with us. I'm guilty of it myself with the minor stuff, but I do try to stop myself when I remember; however, more major slurs are right out.

 

[Zoidberg]

Have you got any actual response? ...

Has anyone said "yes" or "no"? Not yet.

I can wait.

Oh, and I have no desire to empathise with the likes of that!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Not so much what I like, as what they are. In this case, is he not a "nut case", "a loony", or is he in a balanced mental state?

*sigh*

 

[EM2]

Not so much what I like, as what they are. In this case, is he not a "nut case", "a loony", or is he in a balanced mental state?

He is mentally ill. That is what he is.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Has anyone said "yes" or "no"? Not yet.

I can wait.

Oh, and I have no desire to empathise with the likes of that!

No desire to empathise with mentally ill people? Charming.

If you think this objection is just about him then you're missing the point.

 

[lejog]

Complete and utter rubbish. He's been charged with murder. "Terrorism offences" are lesser offences which are brought when terrorists are caught before committing a violent attack.

The killers of Lee Rigby were charged with murder, not "terrorist" offences. Are you going to argue they were just nut cases with a grudge, not terrorists?

Terrorism "protocols" means that the case will be dealt with more quickly and trials subject to enhanced security.

Replying to my own post I know, but I was too busy last night to find and give sources for my post last night.

If anyone is interested, the "terrorist offences" created by the raft of anti-terrorism legislation in recent years are those in the Terror Act 2006 (listed here) such as Preparation of Terrorist Acts, Training For Terrorism, Disseminating Terrorist Publications etc.

There is no offence of terrorism. However the Terrorism Act 2000 contains a definition of terrorism (in full here) and if a judge decides any crime falls within this definition, then other anti-terrorist provisions such as the extension of the period of detention without charge etc etc come into play.

The fact that hearings for the murder of Jo Cox are to be subject to anti-terrorist protocols means that a judge has decided that the murder falls within the legal definition of terrorism.

 

[Zoidberg]

No desire to empathise with mentally ill people? Charming.

...

Not what I said, nor meant. And I suspect you know that.

 

[Busaholic]

Just come back to this thread after a couple of days and what a depressing read! No mention of the Parliamentary recall for the tributes to Jo Cox and, having watched it on BBC iPlayer Parliament Channel it was very moving. This wasn't a case of going through the motions, with one possible exception amongst the contributors, but a genuinely heartfelt tribute by some who had been touched and moved by contact with Jo Cox both well before and since her election as an MP. Her family, including her two children, were in the public gallery.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Just come back to this thread after a couple of days and what a depressing read! No mention of the Parliamentary recall for the tributes to Jo Cox and, having watched it on BBC iPlayer Parliament Channel it was very moving. This wasn't a case of going through the motions, with one possible exception amongst the contributors, but a genuinely heartfelt tribute by some who had been touched and moved by contact with Jo Cox both well before and since her election as an MP. Her family, including her two children, were in the public gallery.

I absolutely concur with this. It was one of the few times when the Common's seem to come together as one to not only to pay tribute to Jo Cox but also to support each other as it was obvious that many of the MP's were very upset.

I also need to post that I now see Andrew Mitchell in a very different light following on from what he said in the Common's yesterday. And also because of his efforts in Syria, which I must admit I was not aware of.

 

[Busaholic]

I absolutely concur with this. It was one of the few times when the Common's seem to come together as one to not only pay tribute to Jo Cox but also to support each other as it was obvious that many of the MP's were very upset.

I also need to post that I now see Andrew Mitchell in a very different light following on from what he said in the Common's yesterday. And also because of his efforts in Syria, which I must admit I was not aware of.

I was one of those people who, after the Downing Street gates incident, immediately assumed Mitchell was an arrogant, dismissive snob, since when it has become clear that he was targeted by certain policemen for some unknown reason which those in authority wish to keep under wraps. I suspect the experience changed Mitchell and he is a better man for it.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Not what I said, nor meant. And I suspect you know that.

Which is why I wrote the second part of that post, which you've cut out.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If we could leave the p***ing contests and toys being thrown from prams for a moment, it's perhaps worth mentioning that today (22/6) would have been Jo Cox's 42nd birthday.

Google (leaving aside their tax situation for the time being) have included a link on their base search page in the UK to the charitable fund in her honour: https://plus.google.com/+GoogleUK/posts/6LQLX5yng1m

 

[Zoidberg]

Which is why I wrote the second part of that post, which you've cut out.

How does the second part of your post mitigate the castigation aimed at me?

And I did not so much cut it out as omit it since it seemed to have no bearing on your criticism.

 

[TheKnightWho]

How does the second part of your post mitigate the castigation aimed at me?

And I did not so much cut it out as omit it since it seemed to have no bearing on your criticism.

Because, as my point made abundantly clear, the point about not using slurs is not solely because of this particular person.

 

[Zoidberg]

Because, as my point made abundantly clear, the point about not using slurs is not solely because of this particular person.

Had it been abundantly clear, it would not have given rise to the question, which remains unanswered.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Had it been abundantly clear, it would not have given rise to the question, which remains unanswered.

Well when you intentionally cut out the part that makes it clear, it doesn't make me very confident that you're actually taking it into account. I've explained it in detail further up the thread.

 

[Domh245]

Anyway, moving away from this bickering, I see that there has been a minutes silence in a number of vote counts in memory of Jo Cox. Touching tribute.

 

[Harbornite]

Anyway, moving away from this bickering, I see that there has been a minutes silence in a number of vote counts in memory of Jo Cox. Touching tribute.

Indeed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As is often said by both the administrators and the moderators, there is the forum "REPORT" button than can be pressed to report postings that seem to be a cause of unpleasantness. The forum staff do a very good job in dealing with such matters rather then website members being personally involved.

 

[backontrack]

The Batley and Spen by-election was won by the Labour candidate Tracy Brabin by a margin of 85%. There was only a 26% turnout. And all 9 far-right candidates lost their deposits as none got 5% of the vote! However, the candidates themselves heckled Brabin as she delivered her speech. Appalling.

It also turns out that Jo Cox was the first person to suggest to Brabin that she should try to become an MP. Tragically ironic.

 

[Iskra]

The Batley and Spen by-election was won by the Labour candidate Tracy Brabin by a margin of 85%. There was only a 26% turnout. And all 9 far-right candidates lost their deposits as none got 5% of the vote! However, the candidates themselves heckled Brabin as she delivered her speech. Appalling.

It also turns out that Jo Cox was the first person to suggest to Brabin that she should try to become an MP. Tragically ironic.

There weren't 9 far-right candidates at all.

I can both see why she was heckled and the turnout was low- the principle of democracy has been undermined in this vote, with the respectable parties refusing to field candidates.