Lack of Advanced 1st Tickets Scotrail

[Butts]

Why is it that there seems to be a paucity of the above on internal Scottish Journeys on 1st Scotrail.

I fancied a day out and have booked a trip on 29th December to Durham from Falkirk Grahamston 1st Class £13.85 each way with a Railcard.(East Coast)

Checked Inverness and Aberdeen on the same date from FKG both in the Fifties each way 1st Class. Similar journey times.

When you book an English destination from Falkirk 1st Class the fare is often the same as from Edinburgh where you normally connect.

It seems its a lot cheaper to go South than North and receive a far better service into the bargain.

 

[ainsworth74]

I guess Scotrail have two things to consider, firstly that they think they can fill their first class sufficiently using open tickets and secondly because there is so much less first class seating on one of their trains (one compartment vs 3 carriages on EC trains) they are more likely to fill it with open tickets than EC who will rarely (if ever) fill one of their trains with open tickets.

Still I'm sure there are some services which would never get any passengers in first class (or very few) during the middle of the day that could have 1st Advance fares introduced successfully.

 

[jetice]

fsr do not offer 1st class advance.....as suggested there is not much capacity ...often not enough for those paying full fare...You can get 1st plus connections on east coast though.

 

[Eng274]

A 170 has 18 first class seats, given that the Edinburgh/Glasgow-Aberdeen/Inverness services are very well used as it is, I think it would be risky to sell advances, there would be a chance that passengers with 1st class tickets bought on-the-day (at a much higher price) are unable to get a 1st class seat due to the advance ticket holders occupying them all.

Advance tickets on off-peak services as Ainsworth74 suggests might be possible, but I've never known 1st class on Edinburgh/Glasgow-Aberdeen services to be empty!

 

[Greenback]

It's supply and demand again. EC have longer trains and therefore more capacity to fill - they can offer cheaper tickets on the less busier northern section of the ECML than FSR with their limited accommodation

 

[Butts]

A 170 has 18 first class seats, given that the Edinburgh/Glasgow-Aberdeen/Inverness services are very well used as it is, I think it would be risky to sell advances, there would be a chance that passengers with 1st class tickets bought on-the-day (at a much higher price) are unable to get a 1st class seat due to the advance ticket holders occupying them all.

Advance tickets on off-peak services as Ainsworth74 suggests might be possible, but I've never known 1st class on Edinburgh/Glasgow-Aberdeen services to be empty!

Why don'y they add a proper carriage instead of a "little bit" on each end.
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It's supply and demand again. EC have longer trains and therefore more capacity to fill - they can offer cheaper tickets on the less busier northern section of the ECML than FSR with their limited accommodation

Why don't FSR use Voyagers or something more substantial on longer runs..they don't seem to have any "proper trains" for domestic use.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Why don'y they add a proper carriage instead of a "little bit" on each end.
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Why don't FSR use Voyagers or something more substantial on longer runs..they don't seem to have any "proper trains" for domestic use.

Is there the demand? Further, I would have thought 170s were perfect for the jobs they do, GLQ / EDB-INV may be a bit too far, but surely a double set covers demand?

 

[yorkie]

Why don't FSR use Voyagers or something more substantial on longer runs..they don't seem to have any "proper trains" for domestic use.

Because their subsidy & franchise agreement doesn't cover longer trains. However if enough people in Scotland contacted their MPs about these issues, then it's quite possible that could change.

 

[scotsman]

Is there the demand? Further, I would have thought 170s were perfect for the jobs they do, GLQ / EDB-INV may be a bit too far, but surely a double set covers demand?

It's rarely a double set...3 coaches most of the time, bar the odd 4 or 5 coach (2x158 and 158+170 respectively)

Because their subsidy & franchise agreement doesn't cover longer trains. However if enough people in Scotland contacted their MPs about these issues, then it's quite possible that could change.

It wouldn't change a thing! However, if enough people in Scotland contacted their MSPs...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It's rarely a double set...3 coaches most of the time, bar the odd 4 or 5 coach (2x158 and 158+170 respectively)

TBF I did use the wrong tense, should have used 'will cover demand'...

 

[scotsman]

TBF I did use the wrong tense, should have used 'will cover demand'...

Stock shortage FTW

 

[jetice]

Why don'y they add a proper carriage instead of a "little bit" on each end.
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Why don't FSR use Voyagers or something more substantial on longer runs..they don't seem to have any "proper trains" for domestic use.

Seems a bit if a crazy argument.....get more 1st class capacity so that you can get a 1st class advance!!!!!! The whole point about Advance tickets is to fill empty seats....why would any train company want to get bigger trains in order to offer seats at a huge loss....totally mad business plan!

 

[MCR247]

^Thats probably the most sense i've heard a 'newish' member speak in a long time!

Welcome to the forum

 

[Eng274]

Why don'y they add a proper carriage instead of a "little bit" on each end.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Why don't FSR use Voyagers or something more substantial on longer runs..they don't seem to have any "proper trains" for domestic use.

Voyagers are much more powerful (and thirsty) than turbostars, hence are more costly/less profitable to operate. Not to mention 125mph stock is wasted on trips to inverness/aberdeen anyway. Longer trains will be called for in the future, but strengthening with 170s from the present fleet is MUCH easier than sourcing some already heavily in-demand voyagers. 1st class accommodation is well balanced with demand at the moment, and extending it on the 170s is a hefty job, bear in mind some are being retrofitted with 1st class from standard-only to enable better availability of 1st class on long distance services.

 

[Butts]

Seems a bit if a crazy argument.....get more 1st class capacity so that you can get a 1st class advance!!!!!! The whole point about Advance tickets is to fill empty seats....why would any train company want to get bigger trains in order to offer seats at a huge loss....totally mad business plan!

Since when was sense and The railways uttered in the same sentence.

You are quite correct it was a rhetorical question, I am just a freeloading 1st Class Advance railcard holding type of guy
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Can anyone answer my query why fortunately (for me) fares from Falkirk to English destinations via Edinburgh are often the same or little more than if originating in Edinburgh.

Are Falkirk and Edinburgh part of the "magic circle" as they are both served by East Coast (albeit limited in Falkirks case)

 

[jetice]

^Thats probably the most sense i've heard a 'newish' member speak in a long time!

Welcome to the forum

Did you mean my post? If so thanks.