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Landslip at Hatfield Colliery (near Doncaster) line to Hull/Scunthorpe now reopened.

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Xenophon PCDGS

Xenophon PCDGS

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dysonsphere said:
Looking on Network rails site there is an aerial shot posted on 16/02/13 which appears to show purpose made lagoons on the top of the tip near the slip location. I was wondering if these would have assisted in the waterlogging of the tip.

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/Gallery/6725/Aerial-photos-16-2-13
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Unless heavy duty waterproof lining material was used for these in that position, it would be the height of irresponsibility to place water lagoons on top of the colliery waste spoil heap, but I fail to see the logic of establishing them in such a position, when the object is to eventually remove the spoil heap. Drainage lagoons are normally installed at ground level, away from areas with instability.
 
Peter Mugridge

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The water level in those two areas at the lower left of the picture looks to me to be well below the surrounding ground level rather than on top of the heap; I would imagine that these are possibly exhausted opencast pits?

On the other hand, the long thin bit of water further up by the landslip looks to be simply precipitation filling the space left by the slip itself starting? Remembering the weather in the preceeding months.....
 
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snowball

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This closure was described on today's lunchtime Look North as being on the East Coast Main Line!
 
brompton rail

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Peter Mugridge said:
The water level in those two areas at the lower left of the picture looks to me to be well below the surrounding ground level rather than on top of the heap; I would imagine that these are possibly exhausted opencast pits?

On the other hand, the long thin bit of water further up by the landslip looks to be simply precipitation filling the space left by the slip itself starting? Remembering the weather in the preceeding months.....
Click to expand...

I doubt that there are any "open cast" pits at Hatfield Colliery. Ground level is around 7m above sea level, the area was known for flooding before the 17th Century drainage work by Cornelius Vermuyden, a Dutchman engaged by the King to drain the area. The main coal seams at the Hatfield deep mine (as all pits east of Doncaster) are some 900yards below ground level.
 
Crossover

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snowball said:
This closure was described on today's lunchtime Look North as being on the East Coast Main Line!
Click to expand...

Watched Look North this evening...I'm glad I'm not the only you heard that, as I was beginning to think I'd gone mad! (evidently it is they who have...)
 
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unlevel42

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The photograph shows 4 distinct area of water.

1 TOP LEFT water that has accumulated in the top part of the slip because of pressure changes and rainfall.
2 TOP RIGHT natural ground and flood water which cannot move away due to saturation of low lying land (well below 7m at high tide).
3 BOTTOM RIGHT Lagoons which is part of a separate reclamation/recycling project.
4 BOTTOM LEFT Lagoons which contain toxic water from mining activity

Although not opencast, the original spoil heap has been reworked therefore previous drainage routes lost/changed.
The spoil heap is also being moved as part of the projected carbon capture power station.

Not been there this month, are the conveyor belts on site yet?
 
Zoidberg

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sheff'd victoria said:
MP's to debate landslide

http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk...ster-landslide-1-5507675#.UUl7Gxt2v0I.twitter
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Ta for the info - and to assist those unable to make use of links:

Published on Wednesday 20 March 2013 08:45

MPs to debate the rail disruption caused to North Lincolnshire by Doncaster landslide

THE rail disruption caused by a landslip at Hatfield Colliery will be debated by MPs today.

Ministers are to discuss extra measures to limit the impact of the rail disruption which has been caused by the blockage, which is set to keep the tracks closed between Doncaster and Scunthorpe until the summer.

It has also affected the stations in the Isle of Axholme villages of Crowle and Althorpe.

Ministers are to be pressed for more action over the continued disruption to North Lincolnshire’s train services.

Cleethorpes MP Martin Vickers has secured the debate with the Transport Minister because of his concerns over the effect the disruption is having on the economy of North Lincolnshire.

At present, bus replacement services are taking passengers between Doncaster and Scunthorpe.
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bradders1983

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Is this going to be a case of yet more MPs demanding all passenger trains be diverted via Brigg with no regard whatsoever for existing trains that use that line, nor the fact it would require a Doncaster reversal?
 
Cliveblackpool

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Anything is possible if the MP's throw a huge pot of money at NR!!
More double track, passing loops etc!!! (There are several rail routes requiring reversals)
Pigs might fly first!
That is the problem having pruned the railway to the bone - curves, track etc removed, and makes diversions difficult or impossible.
The reinstatement times are most probably the shortest time assuming they do not hit any problems.
 
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bradders1983

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Cliveblackpool said:
Anything is possible if the MP's throw a huge pot of money at NR!!
More double track, passing loops etc!!! (There are several rail routes requiring reversals)
Pigs might fly first!
That is the problem having pruned the railway to the bone - curves, track etc removed, and makes diversions difficult or impossible.
The reinstatement times are most probably the shortest time assuming they do not hit any problems.
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Very true although this one would require a crossing of the East Coast Main Line at the south end of Doncaster station rather than the normal North end, dont know if this changes anything in regards to punctuality/effects on other services?

Plus I cant see them putting passing loops in for something quite temporary.
 
brompton rail

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bradders1983 said:
Very true although this one would require a crossing of the East Coast Main Line at the south end of Doncaster station rather than the normal North end, dont know if this changes anything in regards to punctuality/effects on other services?

Plus I cant see them putting passing loops in for something quite temporary.
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Trains from the Joint line at Doncaster can cross the East Coast main line by a bridge at Bessacarr and arrive on the west side (Plats 4,5 & 8) without impacting East Coast services. However the time penalty of going Cleethorpes, Wrawby, Brigg, Gainsborough, Doncaster would be huge, requiring more sets, which aren't available. Even Cleethorpes to Sheffield via Retford takes longer than via Normal Doncaster route. Add in crew training, finding paths etc and the current set up is likely to continue.
 
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unlevel42

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Parliament March 20th 2013 debate

Questions and comments from MPs
13-16 weeks before reopening.
TPE driver training for Brigg route to be completed in 3 weeks.
East Coast refuse to allow fares easement.
Who is responsible for monitoring the slag heap?
Hargreaves own 10% other foreign owned.
Hull Selby problems.
Immingham 25% of UK freight by weight via Immingham.
Summary.
use of Brigg
use of Gainsborough
ticketing by EC
extend London KX- Lincoln to Cleethorpes

Ministers response
Natural disaster.
Slippage between 9th February and finished end of February.
March 15th Network Rail Early July if no further slippage/problems.
EMT has increased capacity of trains on Saturday.
Hargreaves responsibility to clear the track.
16-18weeks.
I million cubic metres to be moved.
NR has checked spoil heaps in UK.
Selby work to continue as scheduled.
55 million tonnes of traffic through Immingham.
120 freight trains using Brigg every day.
No passenger slots via Brigg.
Doncaster would not be served via Brigg.
EC and EMT would need to plan changes.
Ticketing by EC- minister will ask EC.
 
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unlevel42

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Zoidberg said:
I'm not sure to what the 1.53 refers, but when I was watching the clip (via Silverlight player), the statement was made just after 16:23:40.
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Yes that is what the minister said at 1.53 into Windows Media Player which my Windows8 PC chooses as a default.
 
Zoidberg

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unlevel42 said:
Yes that is what the minister said at 1.53 into Windows Media Player which my Windows8 PC chooses as a default.
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Ah, thanks. I did try Windows Media Player before I posted to see what it's time reference was but I couldn't get it to play the clip.
 
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David Barrett

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unlevel42 said:
Parliament March 20th 2013 debate



Ministers response
EMT has increased capacity of trains on Saturday.
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This happened some time ago and most certianly not in connection with Hatfield. Most Saturday trains between Grimsby/Lincoln/Newark are two car although there is a less frequent Lincoln/Peterborough service than on Mondays to Fridays. So no help from EMT at all, imagine our elected representatives not picking up on that one.
 
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unlevel42 said:
Yes that is what the minister said at 1.53
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I wasn't doubting the accuracy of what was reported, I was questioning if the 'facts' as stated by the minister are correct.

I was under the impression that the headway between Northorpe and Gainsborough was 10 minutes, giving a maximum of 3tph. To run even 2.5tph, would require every booked train to run to time, which seems implausible. Therefore 120 trains per day seems a little high.
 
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swissrailpassion

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Certainly at least 65 trains per day run via Brigg. Barnetby has always been busy and there are probably 120 freight trains a day at Barnetby.
 
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unlevel42

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Also from the ministers statement:

Immingham handles 55 million tonnes of freight annually.
Including 20 million tonnes of oil and 10 million tonnes of coal -sent by rail-250train movements a week.
Container, forestry products and animal feed (he does not mention automotive or steel traffic).
In 2009 Network Rail rebuilt section of the Brigg line due to its strategic importance as a freight line.
 
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