Landslip at Hatfield Colliery (near Doncaster) line to Hull/Scunthorpe now reopened.

[sheff'd victoria]

Certainly at least 65 trains per day run via Brigg. Barnetby has always been busy and there are probably 120 freight trains a day at Barnetby.

And most of it single line as well :roll:

 

[David Barrett]

It was certianly a debate of contrast, particularly the contrast between the occupancy of the 17.23 Lincoln to Grimsby Town as quoted by Mr Vickers and the occupancy of the room in which the debate was held. I would not have expected half of the house to turn up but, given the wider issues raised, the Selby Bridge works as mentioned and the Nottingham Works at a similar time (not mentioned) I would have hoped for more East Riding and Lincolnshire M.P.s to have attended and spoken.

 

[eastwestdivide]

120 a day via Brigg?
Today's timetable shows just under 60 paths over 24 hours at Brigg.
Plus via Market Rasen 44 freight paths, 1 ECS and 15 passenger.

Total almost 120 paths (freight plus pass) via both routes.

 

[DeeGee]

Our local news today:

http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/Mini...tory-18491588-detail/story.html#axzz2OGtN8YwA

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It must be very cold weather to be working in by those involved in the colliery waste clearance works, as the prevailing strong wind conditions are those from the European continent, which at this time of the year are bitterly cold.

 

[Mark_H]

http://www.publications.parliament....30320/halltext/130320h0002.htm#13032052000325

The transcript of the debate, in case it is of interest.

I was quite impressed by Vickers, who had clearly tried to research some possible solutions and have some pressure applied (although clearly he should have made an account on here and asked - I'm sure the Lincs rail travel thread would also be of use to him!)

A constituent of his, who rides the same evening train as me, tells me that he met Vickers on the train not too long ago, and buttonholed him about the Clee/Grimsby/Lincoln services. Apparently Vickers seemed genuinely supportive, and told him that he used to regularly go Market Rasen-Lincoln by train.
I also know Vickers has met EMT management about the notorious 1723 Lincoln train, whereas my MP has been much less enthusiastic about helping.

 

[Rich_D3167]

120 a day via Brigg?
Today's timetable shows just under 60 paths over 24 hours at Brigg.
Plus via Market Rasen 44 freight paths, 1 ECS and 15 passenger.

Total almost 120 paths (freight plus pass) via both routes.

Quite. The Brigg line has capacity for 4 freight trains per hour (2 in each direction), the limiting factor being the lengthy single line from Kirton Lime Sidings to just north of Gainsborough Central (with a loop at Northorpe). This means that there is capacity for 96 freight trains in 24 hours. As to how 120 trains a day would happen, i'd believe that when I see it, as it isn't physcially possible (even with a few faster passenger/ECS trains!).

The Market Rasen line has better capacity being double track throughout, but long Absolute Block sections between Wrawby Junction & Holton-le-Moor, and Holton-le-Moor to Wickenby. There's also the passenger trains on that line to contend with, although not being too often, it means you cannot run a freight train any less than 20 minutes in front of a passenger train due to the differential speed limits (50mph max for freight, 75mph max for passengers). There's also the regular booked freight which runs that way to slot in between, so capacity is an issue for both routes.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

I was quite impressed by Vickers, who had clearly tried to research some possible solutions and have some pressure applied (although clearly he should have made an account on here and asked - I'm sure the Lincs rail travel thread would also be of use to him!)

A constituent of his, who rides the same evening train as me, tells me that he met Vickers on the train not too long ago, and buttonholed him about the Clee/Grimsby/Lincoln services. Apparently Vickers seemed genuinely supportive, and told him that he used to regularly go Market Rasen-Lincoln by train.
I also know Vickers has met EMT management about the notorious 1723 Lincoln train, whereas my MP has been much less enthusiastic about helping.

Slightly of the topic but with still on the RT Hon Martin Vickers MP subject, he has been very supportive of working with other MP's, local & parish councils in the North Lincs area to promote a better rail service on all lines.

 

[Sidious]

120 a day via Brigg?
Today's timetable shows just under 60 paths over 24 hours at Brigg.

Quite. The Brigg line has capacity for 4 freight trains per hour (2 in each direction), the limiting factor being the lengthy single line from Kirton Lime Sidings to just north of Gainsborough Central (with a loop at Northorpe). This means that there is capacity for 84 freight trains in 24 hours. As to how 120 trains a day would happen, i'd believe that when I see it, as it isn't physcially possible.

Thanks chaps. I thought that 120 trains per day via Brigg as described by the minister was at best a tall order, and at worst impossible. I suppose that it might be possible to increase the numbers of trains by effectively having a 'tidal flow' of trains operating in the same direction over the single line sections?

Is the Northorpe Loop being used heavily? In normal circumstances it was always very rare for trains to cross there.

 

[Rich_D3167]

Thanks chaps. I thought that 120 trains per day via Brigg as described by the minister was at best a tall order, and at worst impossible. I suppose that it might be possible to increase the numbers of trains by effectively having a 'tidal flow' of trains operating in the same direction over the single line sections?

Is the Northorpe Loop being used heavily? In normal circumstances it was always very rare for trains to cross there.

I don't know about heavily, but it will be seeing regular use. Kirton Lime Sidings to Gainsborough Central is a lengthy section of single line, with it being 60mph between KLS & Northorpe, and 40mph (for freight) Northorpe to Gainsborough Central, dropping to 30mph (for freight) on the approach to the double track section just north of the station. The loop helps break it up, but the signals leading into it are approach controlled (won't clear into the loop until a train is nearly at a stand at the protecting signal), so takes a bit longer for a train to get into it. Can be used in both directions and is capable of fitting even the lengthy Jarrow tanks into it (30 tanks), so it's certainly practical.

 

[Kirk Sandall]

Any Recent update on this landslip? Still opening July?

 

[Boothby97]

Crew Training commences on Monday for TPE on the Brigg line.
Cleethorpes-Sheffield-Barnetby-Gainsborough-Cleethorpes
I'll post times later. Presume tomorrows Sheffield-Cleethorpes ECS move will be two Class 185s as can't find timings for an ECS move to get the crew training unit here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Times
Cleethorpes-Sheffield (Monday to Thursday, this week)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N46844/2013/04/01/advanced

Sheffield-Barnetby (Monday, Wednesday, Thursday this week)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N46843/2013/04/01/advanced

Barnetby-Gainsborough Central (Monday, Wednesday, Thursday this week)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N46845/2013/04/01/advanced

Gainsborough Central-Cleethorpes (Monday, Wednesday, Thursday this week)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N46847/2013/04/01/advanced

Sheffield-Cleethorpes (Tuesday only, this week)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N46843/2013/04/02/advanced

No times in for after Thursday evening. But, although not a 185 or a crew trainer, a Weedkiller is visiting the area on Monday (York Works-Doncaster-Barnetby-Cleethorpes-York Works)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U57748/2013/04/08/advanced

Thanks, Sam

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Crew Training commences on Monday for TPE on the Brigg line.
Cleethorpes-Sheffield-Barnetby-Gainsborough-Cleethorpes
I'll post times later. Presume tomorrows Sheffield-Cleethorpes ECS move will be two Class 185s as can't find timings for an ECS move to get the crew training unit here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Times
Cleethorpes-Sheffield (Monday to Thursday, this week)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N46844/2013/04/01/advanced

Sheffield-Barnetby (Monday, Wednesday, Thursday this week)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N46843/2013/04/01/advanced

Barnetby-Gainsborough Central (Monday, Wednesday, Thursday this week)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N46845/2013/04/01/advanced

Gainsborough Central-Cleethorpes (Monday, Wednesday, Thursday this week)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N46847/2013/04/01/advanced

Sheffield-Cleethorpes (Tuesday only, this week)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N46843/2013/04/02/advanced

No times in for after Thursday evening. But, although not a 185 or a crew trainer, a Weedkiller is visiting the area on Monday (York Works-Doncaster-Barnetby-Cleethorpes-York Works)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U57748/2013/04/08/advanced

Thanks, Sam

It is a shame that the TPE can not pick up at some of the stations on a semi fast service

 

[dysonsphere]

Intresting comment on network rails gallery site with the latest pics.

work continues to deal with 100 cubic metres of material

Me thinks a few "0`s" are missing.

 

[Jordy]

The link to the gallery is http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/Gallery?SubjectID=653 if anyone is interested.

 

[Red Dragon]

The link to the gallery is http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/Gallery?SubjectID=653 if anyone is interested.

Haven't been following this thread for some time, but looked at the photos you put the link to Jordy.
They show excavators at the bottom of some of the pics which appear to be re-claiming coal from the excavations by screening the material.
It looks as if this has been going on for some time, but the excavations have been left open and subsequently filled with water, forming ponds at high level with saturated material below.
As I mentioned in an early post the site should have been re-graded and sealed to prevent the build up of surface water in this way.
This is very reminiscent of the Aberfan slip with a slurry being formed by the introduction of water - fortunately nobody was killed on this occasion.

 

[David Barrett]

5T90 to-day, passing Gainsborough Central.

 

[Kirk Sandall]

with the news that TPE are going via brigg, will they stay on that route when the Scunthorpe line re opens?

 

[David Barrett]

with the news that TPE are going via brigg, will they stay on that route when the Scunthorpe line re opens?

I wouldn't have thought so. It is not expected that the operation via Brigg when/if it commences will be anything other than limited. The reference point must surely be the Franchised Operation which will have to be restored fully upon completion of the Hatfield work.
An approach to the whole question afterwards might be for T.P. Crews to work some of the regular Brigg Line Services to retain knowledge for future contingencies, a practice observed by the Pre-Nationalisation Companies in some cases where parallel routes existed eg. between Plymouth and Exeter but, because there is barely enough work for Northern's Sheffield Crews to retain their knowledge of the Brigg Line this would be highly unlikely.
The current Franchise Boundaries have done Northern Lincolnshire little good in this respect; going back to the period when Grimsby Docks (and later Immingham after re-location there) D.M.U. Crews worked out of Cleethorpes, all routes were signed; Barton, and Sheffield via Doncaster, Retford and Lincoln and in addition Doncaster to Stainforth via The West Riding Joint so out of course events could be catered for more readily than now.

 

[Boothby97]

5T90 to-day, passing Gainsborough Central.

My uncle text me to say three 185s were in Cleethorpes, and on your photos I can ID 185111 and 185115, was there a third on 5T90.
And did anyone see 5T99, return ECS?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks, Sam

 

[David Barrett]

My uncle text me to say three 185s were in Cleethorpes, and on your photos I can ID 185111 and 185115, was there a third on 5T90.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks, Sam

Just the two.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The recent long dry and cold spell with its associated strong easterly winds will have helped with the stability of the colliery waste and of its clearance.

 

[corin paul]

At 9:00am the 4 units on Cleethorpes were
153315 platform 1
185150 platform 2
185111 & 185115 platform 3
Number 185115 was the 9:26 to Scunthorpe.

 

[Mugby]

Wasn't the Brigg line originally the official Great Central main line between Manchester and Cleethorpes?

 

[Donny Dave]

As there is effectively a 4 month 'free' possession on the route, could these works not be brought forward?

To add to my previous answer to this question, NR are doing some work in the area. Just from a quick drive by earlier while on my way to a friends house, I noticed that Althorpe station appears to be having a full track renewal being done, and that there is also a road/rail crane around Gunthorpe loop (between Scunthorpe and Althorpe).

If I get chance in the next few days, I'll have a wander up and find out what;s happening.

 

[Boothby97]

Wasn't the Brigg line originally the official Great Central main line between Manchester and Cleethorpes?

Yes, Manchester-Woodhead line-Sheffield-Gainsborough-Cleethorpes, until the Crowle route was purchased by the MS&LR.

http://grimsbycleecivic.co.uk/Cleerail.html
This talks a lot about the railways and Cleethorpes (it has an association with my Rail UK signature)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks, Sam

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

http://grimsbycleecivic.co.uk/Cleerail.html
This talks a lot about the railways and Cleethorpes (it has an association with my Rail UK signature)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks, Sam

A most interesting and well-detailed link to read.

 

[David Barrett]

Yes, Manchester-Woodhead line-Sheffield-Gainsborough-Cleethorpes, until the Crowle route was purchased by the MS&LR.

And for many years after. Right up to the 1950s there was a daily Cleethorpes/Manchester Resturant Car Train routed via Gainsborough and it was not until 1968 that the status of this line being the principal route between Grimsby and Sheffield was changed in favour of the Scunthorpe route.

 

[Boothby97]

I wonder if this will finally give the Brigg line a "proper" service.
I've said this before, but BBC Look North looked into the Brigg line and its poor service and the DfT stated that the reason for the poor service is the low passenger numbers and would only improve the services if more people use the existing service. And what made me laugh was that the BBC also interviewed some Brigg residents and some didn't even know there is a train service to Brigg.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks, Sam

 

[unlevel42]

Haven't been following this thread for some time, but looked at the photos you put the link to Jordy.
They show excavators at the bottom of some of the pics which appear to be re-claiming coal from the excavations by screening the material.
It looks as if this has been going on for some time, but the excavations have been left open and subsequently filled with water, forming ponds at high level with saturated material below.
As I mentioned in an early post the site should have been re-graded and sealed to prevent the build up of surface water in this way.
This is very reminiscent of the Aberfan slip with a slurry being formed by the introduction of water - fortunately nobody was killed on this occasion.

There is a new tip being built at Hatfield and the local residents are naturally concerned as it is much closer to their homes.
When very reminiscent ..Aberfan ... killed are linked to the Hatfield event which is so significantly different, I feel I must comment on the inaccuracies in this observation.

Hatfield is a rotational slip that has caused the toe of the slip to push the track up and forward.
There is no slurry covering the vegetation or trackwork.
Hatfield is a recent and active site-part groundwork for the new power station and part spoil from the recently reopened colliery.
Hatfield is just above sea level and very flat.
The event took days not minutes.
The reworking of the old tips happened many years ago.
There are containment ponds to the west of the slip for toxic water.

It is likely that high rainfall and poor drainage resulted in the increase in weight of the top of the tip.
There is some localised slurry due to pressure changes but this occurred after the rotation started.
Very little information is being provided on the actual cause of the slip at present (because the bill will run into tens of millions) but it is evident that the high speed, liquefied mass that fell down the mountain in minutes from tip no.7 onto Pantglas school is of a very different nature to that of Hatfield.