Large stations - slow speeds. Where fastest?

[Efini92]

Leeds is 25mph all lines.

It’s only 15 if you depart onto the through line.

 

[800301]

Worth noting it’s 15mph out of terminal dead end platforms everywhere.

That is incorrect

 

[Snow1964]

Fastest route through Reading is 95mph on the Up/Down Main, I think.

I would not call Taunton large in the context of what this thread is really asking for. It's very similar size and significance to Stevenage, which has 125mph through the platforms.

Taunton has 9 platforms (3 islands, and 3 bays), although couple of bays no longer have tracks. Didn't think Stevenage was a similar size.

 

[stuu]

Taunton has 9 platforms (3 islands, and 3 bays), although couple of bays no longer have tracks. Didn't think Stevenage was a similar size.

It doesn't. It has 6 platforms and previously had 9 (4 through, 5 bays).

 

[zwk500]

Taunton has 9 platforms (3 islands, and 3 bays), although couple of bays no longer have tracks. Didn't think Stevenage was a similar size.

Taunton effectively has 4 platforms, with the couple of bays being not much more than engineer's sidings. P1 can't be used by passenger trains at all and P6 can't have passenger trains signalled into it. Stevenage has 5 platforms, 4 on the main ECML lines and a bay for the Hertford Loop.

 

[syorksdeano]

What's the speed in and out of Sheffield?

 

[zwk500]

What's the speed in and out of Sheffield?

15mph through the station area, according to OpenRailwayMap.

 

[fishwomp]

What's the speed in and out of Sheffield?

Terrible?

 

[MCSHF007]

Terrible?

To a very tedious extent.

 

[fishwomp]

About four years ago Modern Railways talked about a new set of speeds and rules at New Street.

A driver had to have the whole train cleared of a limit to be able to exceed (15/20mph, I don't recall).

There was a change, and the net result was that whilst incoming services were same as before, outgoing ones got to accelerate out sooner.

Haven't seen this written about anywhere else.

 

[Taunton]

I would not call Taunton large

Indeed I'm not. Sounds like the regular campaign by Mrs Taunton .

Seriously, from the early 1930s rebuilding there was no restriction on the Main lines through the island platform, normally only taken by London trains, it was in the words of the GWR service timetables of the era "speed may be as high as required". Later, probably when the first diesels came along, it was 80mph. The Cornish Riviera when nonstop used to pass at these speeds, and could be seen to visibly rock (certainly the Warships) on the slight curve at the west end of the platforms.

I believe the approach of enforcing "the whole train must be clear before accelerating", which previously had not really mattered, came from a single derailment, at Bethnal Green in the 1960s, of a train turning towards Hackney Downs on the sharp curve and then going over the crossover from the Local to the Fast lines, where the rear of the 9-car train derailed when power was applied after the (20mph?) restricted crossover. There was poor alignment and maintenance of the crossover as well, but it was stuck on having accelerated, and a general policy was circulated that caused some longstanding delays all round.

 

[zwk500]

About four years ago Modern Railways talked about a new set of speeds and rules at New Street.

A driver had to have the whole train cleared of a limit to be able to exceed (15/20mph, I don't recall).

There was a change, and the net result was that whilst incoming services were same as before, outgoing ones got to accelerate out sooner.

Haven't seen this written about anywhere else.

Really, that doesn't appear to be reflected in the appendix (although I haven't looked at the Instructions section closely). I could understand the limit being accelerate on sight when it's slowing for a hazard or braking distance, but I can't imagine that the complex pointwork at New Street can be traversed much faster than the existing PSR, so it would need the rear of the train clear before it could accelerate.

I believe the approach of enforcing "the whole train must be clear before accelerating", which previously had not really mattered, came from a single derailment, at Bethnal Green in the 1960s, of a train turning towards Hackney Downs on the sharp curve and then going over the crossover from the Local to the Fast lines, where the rear of the 9-car train derailed when power was applied after the (20mph?) restricted crossover. There was poor alignment and maintenance of the crossover as well, but it was stuck on having accelerated, and a general policy was circulated that caused some longstanding delays all round.

It may also have come about with the rise of Push/Pull and DMU trains, as the power would now be applied into the crossover, rather than dragging LHCS out behind it once clear.

 

[edwin_m]

Really, that doesn't appear to be reflected in the appendix (although I haven't looked at the Instructions section closely). I could understand the limit being accelerate on sight when it's slowing for a hazard or braking distance, but I can't imagine that the complex pointwork at New Street can be traversed much faster than the existing PSR, so it would need the rear of the train clear before it could accelerate.

It may also have come about with the rise of Push/Pull and DMU trains, as the power would now be applied into the crossover, rather than dragging LHCS out behind it once clear.

It may be something to do with short overlaps, which are relevant for arriving trains but not departing ones.

 

[QueensCurve]

Preston is only 30 mph which if higher may have broke the record for the fastest train from London to Glasgow

35 I believe.

 

[43066]

Hmm... May I bring the contents of post #15 above to your attention?

It’s 15mph into and out of every terminal platform I’ve ever signed (lower if PSR or local instructions require).

I had an idea it was a rule book requirement (I can’t access it at the moment) rather than just driving policy, too.

 

[zwk500]

It’s 15mph into and out of every terminal platform I’ve ever signed (lower if PSR or local instructions require).

I had an idea it was a rule book requirement (I can’t access it at the moment) rather than just driving policy, too.

15mph in is usually because of TPWS, I thought. But departure doesn't need a restriction because there's not a solid block at the end of the ramp.

 

[43066]

But departure doesn't need a restriction because there's not a solid block at the end of the ramp.

15mph in across the board is required, then I aim for below 10 for the TPWS, which is generally set at 12mph.

But at all my locations it has also always been 15mph on exit, until the train is clear of the platform, including where you’re going out onto a higher PSR.

 

[zwk500]

15mph in across the board is required, then I aim for below 10 for the TPWS, which is generally set at 12mph.

But at all my locations it has also always been 15mph on exit, until the train is clear of the platform, including where you’re going out onto a higher PSR.

Interesting

 

[43066]

Interesting

It’s bugging me now!

As I say I can’t access the rule book at the moment (a story in itself) - it’s possible it’s driving policies at both TOCs I’ve worked for. @ComUtoR might be able to shed some light.

 

[Dieseldriver]

It’s bugging me now!

As I say I can’t access the rule book at the moment (a story in itself) - it’s possible it’s driving policies at both TOCs I’ve worked for. @ComUtoR might be able to shed some light.

It isn’t a rule book instruction

 

[dk1]

Lowestoft has a 60 limit out of Platform 3...

That's been reduced to 25mph since resignalling.

 

[Efini92]

It’s 15mph into and out of every terminal platform I’ve ever signed (lower if PSR or local instructions require).

I had an idea it was a rule book requirement (I can’t access it at the moment) rather than just driving policy, too.

It’s company policy.
It’s 25 in and out of euston.

 

[43066]

It isn’t a rule book instruction

It’s company policy.
It’s 25 in and out of euston.

Thanks both. I should have known that of course, and apologies for the incorrect info, every day is a school day!

10mph into the London terminal I currently sign (local instruction) which is pretty painful.

 

[D6130]

It’s 15mph into and out of every terminal platform I’ve ever signed (lower if PSR or local instructions require).

When I was driving (ultimately for Northern) it was 15 mph into all bay/terminal platforms - with a company policy of less than 10 at the TPWS - but varying speeds departing, depending on the track geometry and signal spacing. At Leeds, for example, you can depart most of the West end bay platforms at 25....but leaving Bay Platform 1 at Skipton there is a 15 restriction due to the tight turnout to and from the Up Shipley.

 

[Efini92]

Thanks both. I should have known that of course, and apologies for the incorrect info, every day is a school day!

10mph into the London terminal I currently sign (local instruction) which is pretty painful.

When I was at northern I thought it was 15 (or lower) into all bays.
They just drum it into you so it’s easy to think it applies everywhere.

 

[43066]

When I was at northern I thought it was 15 (or lower) into all bays.
They just drum it into you so it’s easy to think it applies everywhere.

That’s true. And of course they aren’t above telling the odd lie. I’m sure we’re all been told: “there’s no such thing as an approach controlled signal”.

What an industry!

 

[hexagon789]

That's been reduced to 25mph since resignalling.

That's a pity

 

[Efini92]

That’s true. And of course they aren’t above telling the odd lie. I’m sure we’re all been told: “there’s no such thing as an approach controlled signal”.

What an industry!

Ha ha yes I think everyone has been told that one.

 

[CAF397]

Manchester Airport is 25mph into the block ends (Sectional Appendix), but then TOC PDPs kick in by stipulating 15mph into bay platforms.

What that does mean though is on departure all platforms are 25mph, and platform 3 is 40mph effectively from the platform ramp.

 

[dk1]

That's a pity

All lines are 25mph to Coke Ovens then 55mph then the new crossover there is 40mph, 35mph through Oulton Broad North station. 60mph from then on.