Last call for the Charing Cross to Gillingham via Woolwich semi fasts

[ComUtoR]

I think we have a Thameslink apologist in our midst.....

Nope and if you checked my posting history and took off your tinfoil hat you would know that. But when you resort to name calling your argument has failed.

 

[ComUtoR]

Not so superior as soon as you sit on those rock hard seats though, and not to mention the seat reduction.

Yep the seats are awful and the interior very clinical but they are a much better train. The 700 thread has debated much of the units flaws and issues.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Nope and if you checked my posting history and took off your tinfoil hat you would know that. But when you resort to name calling your argument has failed.

Who says I was referring to you? Though if the tinfoil hat fits wear it with pride I say. And people have a right to be angry with what's going on, services have become slower, the 700s despite your constant praises are a disgrace, some people have back issues and these trains don't help

 

[GMT]

Yes so superior are the 700s that the seats are made of hard plastic! At least the 465’s were comfortable.

And yes believe it or not no one in Medway wants Thameslink, you keep going about alternatives, but Medway is too far outside London for a train that calls at nearly every stop barring three stations! Why should we have an increase in commute time just because minor stations think 6tph is beneath them, tell me the benefits Thameslink brings to Medway?

Even commuters in Woolwich and Abbey Wood are unhappy they lost the fasts.

As for a single choice of train, most of the North Kent line has both Cannon Street and Charing Cross trains so I don’t know what point your trying to make here

I tend to agree with you. I take the 700 from Elephant when going back home changing train at Bromley and I can confirm those seats make by backside becomes square in a matter of minutes.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-claim-uncomfortable-ironing-board-seats-due/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nk-trains-tells-customers-bring-cushions.html

Let's not forget also that Charles Horton some time ago said that passengers should stand rather than sit, or something similar:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...p-rail-firm-boss-tells-commuters-9772106.html

I also understand your point about commuting from Medway, although I don't feel it because I take the 5.40 service to Cannon Street, which now has 375 class trains (so far always dirty because I think they come from Rochester where thera are no cleaners so the conductors go through the train with a bag to pick up litter). However, if I didn't take the train at the crack of dawn it would be a different tune; I do it because I want to travel in a comfortable way, and that is the only way. Let alone the fact that Cannon Street services from Gillingham runs only at rush hours, so if I wanted to go to London Bridge outside those hours I would have to take the Thameslink service.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I tend to agree with you. I take the 700 from Elephant when going back home changing train at Bromley and I can confirm those seats make by backside becomes square in a matter of minutes.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-claim-uncomfortable-ironing-board-seats-due/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nk-trains-tells-customers-bring-cushions.html

Let's not forget also that Charles Horton some time ago said that passengers should stand rather than sit, or something similar:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...p-rail-firm-boss-tells-commuters-9772106.html

I also understand your point about commuting from Medway, although I don't feel it because I take the 5.40 service to Cannon Street, which now has 375 class trains (so far always dirty because I think they come from Rochester where thera are no cleaners so the conductors go through the train with a bag to pick up litter). However, if I didn't take the train at the crack of dawn it would be a different tune; I do it because I want to travel in a comfortable way, and that is the only way. Let alone the fact that Cannon Street services from Gillingham runs only at rush hours, so if I wanted to go to London Bridge outside those hours I would have to take the Thameslink service.

Great points.

That's what pro Thameslink folk fail to understand about the Medway's gripe with Thameslink, and also the alternative Rochester fast to London Bridge is indeed only peak, no use to anyone at all outside of peak like myself.

I really feel that we as paying customers are expendable since the mess has started.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Interesting data point:
On National Rail Enquiries, if you look up a Strood to London Bridge journey for mid week, mid-June, middle of the day, the timings on offer are e.g.:
1h09 on the 1202 Javelin to StP (1236) then underground arr LBr 1311
1h05 on the 1215 Thameslink as far as Gravesend and a 7-minute change (1228-35) onto an SE semifast service via Sidcup, arr LBr 1320
1h12 on the 1215 Thameslink direct arr LBr 1327

 

[NorthKent1989]

The best case scenario for the Thameslink to survive in the Medway/SE London area is if they do one of these options

1: Cut the current service to a reasonable size, and have services run from Dartford to Kentish Town and restore the Woolwich semi fasts to South Eastern, this option only works if nothing major occurs with the conflict moves at North Kent East.

2: Thameslink itself restores the Woolwich semi fasts, but via Lewisham instead so to avoid the conflicting moves at NKE, Thameslink have already changed their minds regarding running services deep into the territory of South East Main Line for its upcoming Maidstone service which was originally going to be peak only and run via
Bromley South to enter the core via
Elephant and Castle, worst case scenario is that Charing Cross trains are lost along the
North Kent line

3: If Thameslink insist they need Gillingham depot then run the Rainham service via
E&C, Herne Hill & Bromley South, replacing the current Vic-Med stopper

4: This one is a long shot so shoot it down if its impractical, but if London Bridge, rather than E&C is insisted upon then perhaps run this fast Down the SEML, switching over to the CML at Chislehurst for Swanley then down to Rainham.

Its clear the majority of people are not happy with the new timetable, even if the drivers are trained very soon, some aspects of the timetable is too impractical for it to work fully, they will inevitably have to go back to the drawing board very soon as I can't see this situation improving for some weeks or months ahead.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

The Maidstone East to Cambridge service will be far more useful, apparently it will only call at West Malling, Borough Green, Otford, Swanley and then fast to London Bridge.

Except the pathing is such that it goes 'down' the Down Slow and 'up' the Up Fast, meaning that two pairs of trains (e.g. a Charing Cross pair on the Main Line and a Cannon Street pair on the Metro) aren't possible in order to facilitate one pair of Thameslink trains. A waste of capacity!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

The best case scenario for the Thameslink to survive in the Medway/SE London area is if they do one of these options

1: Cut the current service to a reasonable size, and have services run from Dartford to Kentish Town and restore the Woolwich semi fasts to South Eastern, this option only works if nothing major occurs with the conflict moves at North Kent East.

2: Thameslink itself restores the Woolwich semi fasts, but via Lewisham instead so to avoid the conflicting moves at NKE, Thameslink have already changed their minds regarding running services deep into the territory of South East Main Line for its upcoming Maidstone service which was originally going to be peak only and run via
Bromley South to enter the core via
Elephant and Castle, worst case scenario is that Charing Cross trains are lost along the
North Kent line

3: If Thameslink insist they need Gillingham depot then run the Rainham service via
E&C, Herne Hill & Bromley South, replacing the current Vic-Med stopper

4: This one is a long shot so shoot it down if its impractical, but if London Bridge, rather than E&C is insisted upon then perhaps run this fast Down the SEML, switching over to the CML at Chislehurst for Swanley then down to Rainham.

Its clear the majority of people are not happy with the new timetable, even if the drivers are trained very soon, some aspects of the timetable is too impractical for it to work fully, they will inevitably have to go back to the drawing board very soon as I can't see this situation improving for some weeks or months ahead.

Now the drivers are based in Medway, that isn't possible. In order to maintain a reasonably reliable railway that won't fall apart each time a Thameslink train is 3 minutes late at North Kent East Junction, the services should run via Sole Street. I would suggest one of two things:
1) Run the service via and call at Denmark Hill, enabling connections to Victoria, the London Overground and also the hospitals; potentially also including a Peckham Rye stop so as to allow yet further connectivity including rather good connectivity to London Bridge and East London from areas such as Longfield.
2) Run the service via and call at Herne Hill, whereby it follows the fast service out but runs still in front of the stopper and thus provides fast journeys with the added benefit of connectivity at Herne Hill.

There are no acceptable reasons, realistically, for the service to continue to run via London Bridge given the damage it will cause when running late. Thameslink's late trains running to Croydon are fine thanks to the entirely separate infrastructure but when you then have conflicting moves abound at North Kent East / Surrey Canal, a Great Northern fatality can then destroy the Southeastern evening peak. No thanks...

Also, in the new Southeastern franchise the terrible situation will arise whereby the stopping service to Gillingham, currently hourly, becomes half-hourly but also goes to East Kent / Kent Coast via Faversham. No more fast trains from Bromley and London Victoria to Medway, Faversham etc; all the more reason for Thameslink to pick up the stops and for Southeastern's Medway / Chatham Main trains to go fast.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Now the drivers are based in Medway, that isn't possible. In order to maintain a reasonably reliable railway that won't fall apart each time a Thameslink train is 3 minutes late at North Kent East Junction, the services should run via Sole Street. I would suggest one of two things:
1) Run the service via and call at Denmark Hill, enabling connections to Victoria, the London Overground and also the hospitals; potentially also including a Peckham Rye stop so as to allow yet further connectivity including rather good connectivity to London Bridge and East London from areas such as Longfield.
2) Run the service via and call at Herne Hill, whereby it follows the fast service out but runs still in front of the stopper and thus provides fast journeys with the added benefit of connectivity at Herne Hill.

There are no acceptable reasons, realistically, for the service to continue to run via London Bridge given the damage it will cause when running late. Thameslink's late trains running to Croydon are fine thanks to the entirely separate infrastructure but when you then have conflicting moves abound at North Kent East / Surrey Canal, a Great Northern fatality can then destroy the Southeastern evening peak. No thanks...

Also, in the new Southeastern franchise the terrible situation will arise whereby the stopping service to Gillingham, currently hourly, becomes half-hourly but also goes to East Kent / Kent Coast via Faversham. No more fast trains from Bromley and London Victoria to Medway, Faversham etc; all the more reason for Thameslink to pick up the stops and for Southeastern's Medway / Chatham Main trains to go fast.

Hard to disagree with this.

To be honest most of the issues have been on the routes heading into London Bridge south of the river, a normal service appears to have been running on the Sutton Loop & the Orpington/Sevenoaks services all of which run into Elephant & Castle, I’ve not heard any issues there, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Your right though any Thameslink South Eastern route that head into London Bridge will cause a lot of issues for the network long term.

Running this via Catford Loop might be a bit tight especially since it joins the Bexleyheath route at Nunhead, from 2022 this section will gain an extra 2tph, so it may best for it to run via Herne Hill, you can still get to the Denmark Hill hospitals via the 68/468 buses which is only five mins by bus from Herne Hill, you could include a stop at Beckenham Junction for the tram to Croydon and local Southern trains to Peckham Rye.

 

[nom de guerre]

I also understand your point about commuting from Medway, although I don't feel it because I take the 5.40 service to Cannon Street, which now has 375 class trains (so far always dirty because I think they come from Rochester where thera are no cleaners so the conductors go through the train with a bag to pick up litter).

The ECS to form the 0540 usually comes from Gillingham depot, but ran from Victoria for most of last week (due to a T3 possession on successive nights which included parts of Gillingham depot).

 

[NorthKent1989]

Great points.

That's what pro Thameslink folk fail to understand about the Medway's gripe with Thameslink, and also the alternative Rochester fast to London Bridge is indeed only peak, no use to anyone at all outside of peak like myself.

I really feel that we as paying customers are expendable since the mess has started.

I think your the one who fails to understand the Rainham Thameslink service, it’s linking two busy metro routes together and improving services along the Woolwich line, you need to make sacrifices for stations in the inner suburbs that will rely on this in the future, I think Medway commuters are being very selfish and unreasonable about this

Also give Thameslink a chance it’s only just started and people are already killing off the scheme, it’s like you all want it to fail and it’s sad as it will improve travelling in London loads.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Now the drivers are based in Medway, that isn't possible. In order to maintain a reasonably reliable railway that won't fall apart each time a Thameslink train is 3 minutes late at North Kent East Junction, the services should run via Sole Street. I would suggest one of two things:
1) Run the service via and call at Denmark Hill, enabling connections to Victoria, the London Overground and also the hospitals; potentially also including a Peckham Rye stop so as to allow yet further connectivity including rather good connectivity to London Bridge and East London from areas such as Longfield.
2) Run the service via and call at Herne Hill, whereby it follows the fast service out but runs still in front of the stopper and thus provides fast journeys with the added benefit of connectivity at Herne Hill.

There are no acceptable reasons, realistically, for the service to continue to run via London Bridge given the damage it will cause when running late. Thameslink's late trains running to Croydon are fine thanks to the entirely separate infrastructure but when you then have conflicting moves abound at North Kent East / Surrey Canal, a Great Northern fatality can then destroy the Southeastern evening peak. No thanks...

Also, in the new Southeastern franchise the terrible situation will arise whereby the stopping service to Gillingham, currently hourly, becomes half-hourly but also goes to East Kent / Kent Coast via Faversham. No more fast trains from Bromley and London Victoria to Medway, Faversham etc; all the more reason for Thameslink to pick up the stops and for Southeastern's Medway / Chatham Main trains to go fast.

No I don’t agree with this, the Greenwich route is the best route clearly, I think people should buck up and expect that things will fail at the first hurdle, we’re only human give it time and Medway will be extremely grateful for this service, imagine going from Chatham all the way to the new shopping centre at Brent Cross in 2021 it’s going to be useful.

 

[Class465fan]

I don't think this new Thameslink service will last once Crossrail opens. Just don't see it happening as more people will probably choose Crossrail over shameslink. I could be wrong though...

 

[bramling]

No I don’t agree with this, the Greenwich route is the best route clearly, I think people should buck up and expect that things will fail at the first hurdle, we’re only human give it time and Medway will be extremely grateful for this service, imagine going from Chatham all the way to the new shopping centre at Brent Cross in 2021 it’s going to be useful.

How exciting. Make everyone late for work day after day, but can (sit on a train for 2 hours each way to) go direct to a shopping centre once in a blue moon. No thanks.

In any case, hasn’t Medway got Bluewater right on its doorstep?

 

[bramling]

I think your the one who fails to understand the Rainham Thameslink service, it’s linking two busy metro routes together and improving services along the Woolwich line, you need to make sacrifices for stations in the inner suburbs that will rely on this in the future, I think Medway commuters are being very selfish and unreasonable about this

Also give Thameslink a chance it’s only just started and people are already killing off the scheme, it’s like you all want it to fail and it’s sad as it will improve travelling in London loads.

I’ve not really been following Thameslink’s Rainham flirtation, but why didn’t Thameslink form a service terminating further in, like Gravesend or Dartford? To me that would have made more sense.

Of course whoever got it would be shafted by being stuck with the 8-car reduced length undesiros originally intended for Tattenham Corner. Another Thameslink Programme misjudgement.

 

[Class465fan]

How exciting. Make everyone late for work day after day, but can (sit on a train for 2 hours each way to) go direct to a shopping centre once in a blue moon. No thanks.

In any case, hasn’t Medway got Bluewater right on its doorstep?

Yes it does. If they want to go to a shopping centre then just go to bluewater. Not that far.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I think your the one who fails to understand the Rainham Thameslink service, it’s linking two busy metro routes together and improving services along the Woolwich line, you need to make sacrifices for stations in the inner suburbs that will rely on this in the future, I think Medway commuters are being very selfish and unreasonable about this

Also give Thameslink a chance it’s only just started and people are already killing off the scheme, it’s like you all want it to fail and it’s sad as it will improve travelling in London loads.

No I think it is very safe to say that it is you who fails to understand the Thameslink to Medway issue.

You mean to tell me that If you lived out in Medway you would be happy with losing the semi fasts and having an all stops service instead? Judging by your posts regarding the Sidcup fasts I doubt it.

And no Thameslink should not be given a chance, they've had their chances with and they have had years to prepare for the timetable change, to train drivers, to familiarise routes etc!

No I don’t agree with this, the Greenwich route is the best route clearly, I think people should buck up and expect that things will fail at the first hurdle, we’re only human give it time and Medway will be extremely grateful for this service, imagine going from Chatham all the way to the new shopping centre at Brent Cross in 2021 it’s going to be useful.

How dare you tell people to buck up! People could lose jobs over this! Its causing a lot of anxiety for people! But oh no we should be grateful for a train that'll whisk us up to Brent Cross shopping centre on a two hour train ride on hard plastic seats! Bluewater in the old time table was a 30 minute train ride away! No one from Medway or Even Greenwich will head to Brent Cross shopping centre

 

[NorthKent1989]

No I don’t agree with this, the Greenwich route is the best route clearly, I think people should buck up and expect that things will fail at the first hurdle, we’re only human give it time and Medway will be extremely grateful for this service, imagine going from Chatham all the way to the new shopping centre at Brent Cross in 2021 it’s going to be useful.

They removed CX trains for the fear it would cause conflicting moves over Thameslink routes, yet The Rainham service will make a similar move over the SEML Cannon Street lines in order to join the Thameslink network so no its actually the worse route for such a service.

I don't think this new Thameslink service will last once Crossrail opens. Just don't see it happening as more people will probably choose Crossrail over shameslink. I could be wrong though...

Your not wrong

Thameslink will be effectively redundant east of Woolwich at least, via Crossrail Farringdon will be just six stops, compared to the eleven very slow stops via Thameslink, if Luton is your prime destination and your coming from Strood all one would have to do is board the Thameslink to Abbey Wood, change for Crossrail to Farringdon, board another Thameslink train to Luton, lets say a stopper from Sutton, you'll be zooming toward Mill Hill before the Rainham Thameslink service has entered the core!

Also I seriously doubt rail bosses will allow Crossrail AND Thameslink to coexist in SE London for very long and since Crossrail's infrastructure in this neck of the woods is pretty permanent then its not hard to figure out which service will be gone by the start of the new decade!

I’ve not really been following Thameslink’s Rainham flirtation, but why didn’t Thameslink form a service terminating further in, like Gravesend or Dartford? To me that would have made more sense.

Of course whoever got it would be shafted by being stuck with the 8-car reduced length undesiros originally intended for Tattenham Corner. Another Thameslink Programme misjudgement.

Thameslink (or PhlegmsStink rather) needed a depot, Plumstead was out since Crossrail claimed it first, Dartford has no space, Gravesend was considered but Hoo Junction has been safeguarded for Crossrail in the event of an extension in the near future, Rochester was also considered but Rainham was chosen eventually because there was space at Gillingham depot, that's fine and hunky dory and everything but this should have been routed via Herne Hill and Bromley South.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I’ve not really been following Thameslink’s Rainham flirtation, but why didn’t Thameslink form a service terminating further in, like Gravesend or Dartford? To me that would have made more sense.

Pure speculation, but I'm wondering if it's to do with carriage availability. The Thameslink Rainham route must have freed up several SouthEastern trains, of which I understand there is an acute shortage, to beef up routes elsewhere on the SE network. I imagine terminating at Dartford would require fewer units to operate - and that's fewer SouthEastern units freed up.

Of course that could explain why it's the Thameslink service that goes all the way to Rainham. But it doesn't really account for the idiocy of running fast trains only as far as Gravesend while almost-all-stops goes out further

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I think your the one who fails to understand the Rainham Thameslink service, it’s linking two busy metro routes together and improving services along the Woolwich line, you need to make sacrifices for stations in the inner suburbs that will rely on this in the future, I think Medway commuters are being very selfish and unreasonable about this

Also give Thameslink a chance it’s only just started and people are already killing off the scheme, it’s like you all want it to fail and it’s sad as it will improve travelling in London loads.

It's not just the teething problems. It's that fact that Thameslink has given arguably a worse daytime timetable even for the metro area in London, not just for Medway. Aside from the slowing down of services from Medway, many stations in London now see a less regular service: Woolwich Dockyard, Belvedere and Erith all used to have a regular 10-minute frequency to Cannon Street. Now, after the timetable recast, they have gaps of up to 14 minutes because - as far as I can see - mixing in the Thameslink trains with different stopping patterns has forced a less regular timetable. Even Plumstead hasn't massively benefitted - that station used to have a train every 10 minutes. Now it has more trains, but an irregular timetable that kills the turn-up-and-go frequency for some destinations. And realistically, based on passenger usage figures there (about 1/3 of what Abbey Wood gets and comparable to Belvedere and Erith), it's hard to argue that you really need to stop the 'fast' at Plumstead. Especially when Plumstead is so close to Woolwich Arsenal as to share quite a bit of the catchment area.

The only plus for the London stations is a more frequent evening and Sunday service, plus more trains between Slade Green and Dartford. Other than that, I find it really hard to see any significant benefits to the North Kent line from the introduction of the Thameslink route, and there are a lot of big disadvantages.

 

[Antman]

No I don’t agree with this, the Greenwich route is the best route clearly, I think people should buck up and expect that things will fail at the first hurdle, we’re only human give it time and Medway will be extremely grateful for this service, imagine going from Chatham all the way to the new shopping centre at Brent Cross in 2021 it’s going to be useful.

Are you for real? If I want to go to Brent Cross I'll take HS1 and the Northern Line and get there in about half the time.

Thameslink brings no benefits to the Medway towns, it's just too slow.

 

[Class465fan]

Are you for real? If I want to go to Brent Cross I'll take HS1 and the Northern Line and get there in about half the time.

Thameslink brings no benefits to the Medway towns, it's just too slow.

Exactly! If you're in a big hurry to go to Luton or Brent Cross like you said, just take a southeastern highspeed train and change at st pancreas international for a Thameslink (Shambleslink) service to go to Luton or change for anorthern line train for Brent cross.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Are you for real? ...

My suspicion is no, he's not.

 

[Bromley boy]

No I think it is very safe to say that it is you who fails to understand the Thameslink to Medway issue.

You mean to tell me that If you lived out in Medway you would be happy with losing the semi fasts and having an all stops service instead? Judging by your posts regarding the Sidcup fasts I doubt it.

And no Thameslink should not be given a chance, they've had their chances with and they have had years to prepare for the timetable change, to train drivers, to familiarise routes etc!

How dare you tell people to buck up! People could lose jobs over this! Its causing a lot of anxiety for people! But oh no we should be grateful for a train that'll whisk us up to Brent Cross shopping centre on a two hour train ride on hard plastic seats! Bluewater in the old time table was a 30 minute train ride away! No one from Medway or Even Greenwich will head to Brent Cross shopping centre

Yes, I think those of us who are enthusiasts/work on the railway in question need to give a little respect to the views of commuters from Medway, as per the above.

If I lived there I wouldn’t think a slow all-shacks TL service to Blackfriars would really substitute for the Ch+ (ex Gilly) semi fasts they have lost.

Ok, they have SE mainliners/HS1, but clearly those are not a good alternative for some. That is a change that will remain even after the current timetable beds itself in.

My personal view is that the TL programme was geared around St Albans, Croydon etc. With little thought given to the extremities (aren’t we are hearing similar complaints from Cambridge commuters).

 

[Bromley boy]

It's not just the teething problems. It's that fact that Thameslink has given arguably a worse daytime timetable even for the metro area in London, not just for Medway. Aside from the slowing down of services from Medway, many stations in London now see a less regular service: Woolwich Dockyard, Belvedere and Erith all used to have a regular 10-minute frequency to Cannon Street. Now, after the timetable recast, they have gaps of up to 14 minutes because - as far as I can see - mixing in the Thameslink trains with different stopping patterns has forced a less regular timetable. Even Plumstead hasn't massively benefitted - that station used to have a train every 10 minutes. Now it has more trains, but an irregular timetable that kills the turn-up-and-go frequency for some destinations. And realistically, based on passenger usage figures there (about 1/3 of what Abbey Wood gets and comparable to Belvedere and Erith), it's hard to argue that you really need to stop the 'fast' at Plumstead. Especially when Plumstead is so close to Woolwich Arsenal as to share quite a bit of the catchment area.

The only plus for the London stations is a more frequent evening and Sunday service, plus more trains between Slade Green and Dartford. Other than that, I find it really hard to see any significant benefits to the North Kent line from the introduction of the Thameslink route, and there are a lot of big disadvantages.

You’ve absolutely nailed it in the above posting (nothing unusual there).

The Medway towns/North Kent was simply never a priority in the TL programme.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Sad thing is, is that he probably is real.

There are plenty of people who seemed disregard the worries of those who live in Medway, they say "The Medway has options" or "its unreasonable to live outside London and expect journey times to be faster than those in zone 3/4" then there's the crowd that says "but homes are being built" yeah along a line that has 6tph a train every ten minutes! That's not a poor deal!

 

[Bromley boy]

Sad thing is, is that he probably is real.

There are plenty of people who seemed disregard the worries of those who live in Medway, they say "The Medway has options" or "its unreasonable to live outside London and expect journey times to be faster than those in zone 3/4" then there's the crowd that says "but homes are being built" yeah along a line that has 6tph a train every ten minutes! That's not a poor deal!

Sorry to say it, but don’t expect it to change.

It almost certainly won’t.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Yes, I think those of us who are enthusiasts/work on the railway in question need to give a little respect to the views of commuters from Medway, as per the above.

If I lived there I wouldn’t think a slow all-shacks TL service to Blackfriars would really substitute for the Ch+ (ex Gilly) semi fasts they have lost.

Ok, they have SE mainliners/HS1, but clearly those are not a good alternative for some. That is a change that will remain even after the current timetable beds itself in.

My personal view is that the TL programme was geared around St Albans, Croydon etc. With little thought given to the extremities (aren’t we are hearing similar complaints from Cambridge commuters).

Thanks

Most people have been understanding and it’s appreciated in Medway

You’ve absolutely nailed it in the above posting (nothing unusual there).

The Medway towns/North Kent was simply never a priority in the TL programme.

It does seem that Medway has become the new Redhill, a large urban area with poor rail services (HS1 is a different matter since its premium and not an option for many)

 

[NorthKent1989]

Yes, I think those of us who are enthusiasts/work on the railway in question need to give a little respect to the views of commuters from Medway, as per the above.

If I lived there I wouldn’t think a slow all-shacks TL service to Blackfriars would really substitute for the Ch+ (ex Gilly) semi fasts they have lost.

Ok, they have SE mainliners/HS1, but clearly those are not a good alternative for some. That is a change that will remain even after the current timetable beds itself in.

My personal view is that the TL programme was geared around St Albans, Croydon etc. With little thought given to the extremities (aren’t we are hearing similar complaints from Cambridge commuters).

And from Horsham, it seems several areas have been screwed over by PhlegmStink apparently trains seem to be running well on the Medway route so far, how long for is hard to tell.

My only hope is that Crossrail will kill off Thameslink in this neck of the woods.