Last stations to have a passenger loco to run around it's train

[InkyScrolls]

Last steam loco for British Rail to run around a train was in 1999 on the Vale of Rheidol.

Do you possibly mean 1989?

 

[172007]

Do you possibly mean 1989?

Yes, double checked just now, re-logged in and you had beaten me to it.

Last steam loco for British Rail to run around a train was in 1999 on the Vale of Rheidol.

1989 as corrected by @InkyScrolls

 

[Western 52]

There were loco hauled trains on the Rhymney valley line in the late 90s and maybe a bit later. They ran round at Rhymney, but maybe in the sidings?

 

[Merthyr Imp]

Possibly 'run - rounds' were a recent method of working.
I suggest that because, on the Midland Main Line when it was a trunk route, St Pancras - Scotland services (and the Euston - Glasgow sleeper that went MML from Mkt Harborough) reversed twice, at Nottingham and Leeds, and my recollection was that the change was by slip working, i.e., another loco backed on to what had been the back of the train, and the incoming loco was left behind, then being used to take over the next working.

That certainly is what happened at Nottingham on services from St Pancras to Sheffield and beyond.

Travelling from York to Swansea on the direct Cross Country between 1991 and 1994, the loco ran round at Gloucester (I think}. I guess that carried on until the withdrawal of that service. When did that happen?

Surely they carried straight on at Gloucester to Cardiff? My recollection is of travelling that way a good few times - but may possibly have been earlier than 1991. Or were there perhaps some that had to call at Bristol Parkway?

 

[Iskra]

Where were the last locations where electric locos ran round their trains? Presumably the running round at Birmingham New Steet and Oxley (Wolverhampton) finished with the introduction of DVTs.

Virgin 86’s ran round their trains of Cross Country Mk2’s at Edinburgh Waverley. These also changed loco’s to 47’s at Birmingham. This was well after the introduction of DVT’s.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There were some loco hauled cross country trains which reversed at Reading well into 1990s, although as HSTs gradually took over many XC services, the running round died out. Before the station rebuild there was centre tracks which allowed the run round.

I cannot remember now if some survived as loco hauled until voyagers arrived.

I did a lot of bashing Reading - Oxford in the loco haulage days, and I'm pretty some some 47s did last until the Voyagers came in on that axis.

Incidentally, much of the time earlier when everything there was loco hauled, the usual practice was the loco coming off at one end of the train was not the one that came on at the other end - that would instead have been the one detached from the previous train.

 

[Scotrail84]

Theres 2 booked cl92 run round moves in Waverley each day. 1C11 at night, and 1B26 in the morning. There can be other unscheduled adhoc run round moves during the small hours depending what sleeper moves are taking place to form the services.

 

[LittleRedTrain]

Not a loco as such, but it appears that one XC Voyager 'ran around' another at Oxford this morning.

Realtime Trains | 1O08 0725 Manchester Piccadilly to Winchester | 12/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 1O08 0725 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Winchester on 12/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Presumably this was to deal with a cab defect or similar on the front unit. It's not an RTT glitch as I saw it happening in real time on Traksy (while I was stuck on the train behind!).

XC 47s definitely did run around at Reading up to the early 2000s. I remember travelling on a 47-hauled train from Reading to Birmingham International in November 2000 (for Warley).

 

[Western Sunset]

If I recall correctly, the 20s that worked the summer Burton - Skeggy train well into into the 80s, ran round the coaches at Derby, rather than another pair being attached at t'other end.

 

[Merle Haggard]

That certainly is what happened at Nottingham on services from St Pancras to Sheffield and beyond.

Thanks for the confirmation, I wasn't sure of my memory.

 

[Magdalia]

That presumably wouldn’t have been a run round as it would have come in as an electric.

Was it a propel out to run round at Yarmouth?

The diesel had to run round at Yarmouth. Run rounds could be done in platform 2, but arrivals in other platforms had to propel to the sidings.

 

[xotGD]

I think we need to differentiate between locos running round the ecs after terminating (or before departure) and running round mid-service.

The first was much more common than the second.

Gloucester and Reading are the obvious places that come to mind, but I've also experienced a run round at Sheffield when diverted on a Sunday.

 

[yorksrob]

I did a lot of bashing Reading - Oxford in the loco haulage days, and I'm pretty some some 47s did last until the Voyagers came in on that axis.

Incidentally, much of the time earlier when everything there was loco hauled, the usual practice was the loco coming off at one end of the train was not the one that came on at the other end - that would instead have been the one detached from the previous train.

You are correct. 47's and mk 2's lasted until the Voyagers arrived.

I was doing a lot of travelling between Reading and Leeds at the time.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Where were the last locations where electric locos ran round their trains? Presumably the running round at Birmingham New Steet and Oxley (Wolverhampton) finished with the introduction of DVTs.

Even in the DVT era there were occasions when if the DVT had a fault which meant it could not be lead vehicle the electric loco would run round at Manchester Piccadilly - pre DVT run round was the exception rather than the rule as turnover locos were usually in use meaning the inward loco would step back to the subsequent departure.

 

[Bikeman78]

The Cardiff Valleys were a relatively late survivor with run rounds at Rhymney and, once per weekday, at Radyr. Radyr finished in December 2005 and Rhymney a year later.

The class 47s definitely ran to Reading almost to the end in August 2002. By then, they were frequently standing in for HSTs or Voyagers and were often top and tailed. There was a summer Saturday class 47 working to Paignton with a West Coast DVT set which ran for a few weeks after they finished on all other XC workings.

 

[Bradford PA]

The Cardiff Valleys were a relatively late survivor with run rounds at Rhymney and, once per weekday, at Radyr. Radyr finished in December 2005 and Rhymney a year later.

The class 47s definitely ran to Reading almost to the end in August 2002. By then, they were frequently standing in for HSTs or Voyagers and were often top and tailed. There was a summer Saturday class 47 working to Paignton with a West Coast DVT set which ran for a few weeks after they finished on all other XC workings.

Due to the unavailability HST stock, a class 47 was diagrammed for an early evening departure from St Pancras to Sheffield for a few weeks/months in the early 2000's. Presumably it came back with another train after running around ?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Due to the unavailability HST stock, a class 47 was diagrammed for an early evening departure from St Pancras to Sheffield for a few weeks/months in the early 2000's. Presumably it came back with another train after running around ?

Might be the return working of an Up train that arrived at St Pancras just before mid-day. I can recollect catching that train a couple of times in about the same time period.

Possibly the one you remember was the return working of this, and would have probably have got back to Derby E.C.S..

 

[Bikeman78]

Due to the unavailability HST stock, a class 47 was diagrammed for an early evening departure from St Pancras to Sheffield for a few weeks/months in the early 2000's. Presumably it came back with another train after running around ?

Yes, good point. It did something like the 0930 Nottingham to St Pancras and the 1720 St Pancras to Sheffield. I guess it stabled at Cricklewood during the day. Was it passible to run round at St Pancras at that time?

 

[Royston Vasey]

The Jacobite arrives in Mallaig, then once the passengers are disgorged, the loco propels its train clear of the points which sit about two thirds of the way up the platform, until most of the coaches are no longer platformed and the leading (southernmost) coach fouls the throat of platform 2. It uncouples, shunts back north towards the buffers until clear of those points, which are switched by hand using the ground frame, then it reverses down the passing loop past its train to and past the Stop board.

Back onto the coaches and pushes them back into the station for departure tender-first.

The whole manoeuvre is timed to take 26 minutes.

 

[The exile]

Surely they carried straight on at Gloucester to Cardiff? My recollection is of travelling that way a good few times - but may possibly have been earlier than 1991. Or were there perhaps some that had to call at Bristol Parkway?

In its later years it ran via Parkway. Its final incarnation ran (or runs - can’t remember if it’s come off yet) via Tempke Meads as well.

 

[Whistler40145]

When did 37 hauled Holyhead services finish?

 

[Merthyr Imp]

In its later years it ran via Parkway. Its final incarnation ran (or runs - can’t remember if it’s come off yet) via Temple Meads as well.

I think I'm right in saying there have not been any direct York to Swansea services for many years!

I don't believe there were many from 1991 onwards - perhaps just one particular working you're referring to? Generally speaking, Cardiff disappeared from the Cross-Country map in about 1990 when services between Birmingham and Cardiff were replaced by the Nottingham to Cardiff trains which still run today (i.e. direct from Gloucester).

But you're right in saying that prior to this period, in the pre-HST days, it was the practice for trains reversing at Gloucester to have the loco run round there.

 

[Bikeman78]

I think I'm right in saying there have not been any direct York to Swansea services for many years!

I don't believe there were many from 1991 onwards - perhaps just one particular working you're referring to? Generally speaking, Cardiff disappeared from the Cross-Country map in about 1990 when services between Birmingham and Cardiff were replaced by the Nottingham to Cardiff trains which still run today (i.e. direct from Gloucester).

But you're right in saying that prior to this period, in the pre-HST days, it was the practice for trains reversing at Gloucester to have the loco run round there.

By 1997 there was one XC to and from Swansea a day. I think it went up in the morning and down at night in the mid 1990s but I am open to correction. By 2000, it was definitely an out and back from Newcastle. The up train departed from Swansea around 1525. Anyone from Fishguard who wanted to avoid the tedious wait on the Leckwith Loop could get off at Bridgend and take that HST to Cardiff, arriving around 30 minutes earlier.

There was a period in 2000 when class 47s appeared on the Swansea a few times. I cannot recall if the train was booked via Bristol Temple Meads but I assume it ran direct from Newport to Parkway when it was hauled. It was during the post Hatfield meltdown so it was usually 30+ late by Cardiff, so missing Temple Meads would have made up a good chunk of the delay.

 

[Richard Scott]

The Cardiff Valleys were a relatively late survivor with run rounds at Rhymney and, once per weekday, at Radyr. Radyr finished in December 2005 and Rhymney a year later.

Don't forget Rhymney started up again and finished about 2020. Certainly remember going on it early 2020 before dreaded lockdowns!!!

 

[Bikeman78]

Don't forget Rhymney started up again and finished about 2020. Certainly remember going on it early 2020 before dreaded lockdowns!!!

I completely forgot about that! Loads of people turned up for the last run, about two weeks before lockdown and then 37418 failed on Canton.

 

[hilly]

There was a loco hauled service to Fishguard harbour early 2000s - class 37 + 4 mk2

 

[boiledbeans2]

If preserved railways are included, then the Isle of Wight steam trains do this (I last rode them pre-covid though, don't know if it's changed since then).

 

[Sun Chariot]

If preserved railways are included, then the Isle of Wight steam trains do this (I last rode them pre-covid though, don't know if it's changed since then).

I think this thread relates to national rail.
Many standard- and narrow-gauge heritage railways use the run-round operation on their passenger schedules.

 

[Western 52]

There was a loco hauled service to Fishguard harbour early 2000s - class 37 + 4 mk2

No run round loop at Fishguard Harbour any longer.

 

[Richard Scott]

There was a loco hauled service to Fishguard harbour early 2000s - class 37 + 4 mk2

They then used 50s for a while; remember taking 50049 in 2006 there and back.