Late platform changes.

[Oxfordblues]

It would often happen when I worked at Preston Power Signalbox. A down train would be waiting a driver on Platform 3 when an up train occupying Platform 4, so the next down train would be diverted to Platform 5. But this was only announced as the train was coming-in, even though this move was obvious to the signallers and platform staff well in advance.

 

[Falcon1200]

I remember a couple of years ago one Sunday evening waiting for the 19:35 Bristol Temple Meads to Leeds on platform 5. It wss only announced as it arrived that it was going to alternatively use platform 15(!).

When it comes to, trains are run for passengers, not the other way round, and passengers feel that 'on time' (or not) means for them, not the train.

A late platform change could perhaps be caused by a points failure which only becomes apparent when the Signaller tries to set the route, leaving no real option but to replatform to avoid a heavy delay. But, as pointed out here, by myself and others, that is not always the case!

 

[Tester]

A late platform change could perhaps be caused by a points failure which only becomes apparent when the Signaller tries to set the route, leaving no real option but to replatform to avoid a heavy delay. But, as pointed out here, by myself and others, that is not always the case!

This is a legitimate and sensible reason for a platform change - minimising delay.

The joined up railway would ensure that all affected passengers were able to board the train, with the ensuing delay (by definition less than it would have been otherwise) attributed to the point failure.

 

[Parallel]

A few months ago I was waiting for the train to Gatwick at Reading which was advertised as departing platform 4, then around 2 minutes before departure, a platform alteration was announced to platform 15! This caused everyone to run with suitcases and actually created a bit of a safety risk. The train did wait for everyone and eventually departed 8 minutes late.

Apparently the service was being provided by a train fresh off the depot, so was unable to use any of the East facing bays, but a platform alteration that close to departure time seemed ridiculous!

 

[Bill57p9]

Would you be entitled to delay repay if your journey were delayed (to the appropriate extent) by missing a very late notice platform change?

 

[Class800]

Would you be entitled to delay repay if your journey were delayed (to the appropriate extent) by missing a very late notice platform change?

In theory. Might be a hard one to win

 

[etr221]

A late platform change could perhaps be caused by a points failure which only becomes apparent when the Signaller tries to set the route, leaving no real option but to replatform to avoid a heavy delay.

Yes, fully accept that may be the case. In which case the lesser delay while passengers transfer to the new platform HAS to be accepted.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

What I don’t get is how an information system can persistently display information that is not only incorrect but impossible. For the last two mornings, the 06.55 departure from Bath, which comes in ecs from Bristol has been a few minutes late (expected 07.02). The platform indicators have displayed “First train 07.05 Bristol TM - on time. 2nd train 06.55 Bristol TM -expected 07.02”. This is of course a physical impossibility - which has been resolved on both occasions by a last minute platform change and a further delay to the 06.55 - but an information system ought not to be abbey to display the impossible!

Not presenting the impossible in a single display or announcement would be a good start. I may have mentioned this before but I recall an XC service being replatformed from 9 to 8 at Birmingham New Street - not a major problem as it's the other face of the same island, and it was announced in good time. But the announcements, and the display on platform 8, continued to say "first class accommodation at platform 9b" !

It's unlikely that anyone missed the train as a result - though anyone catching just the bit of an announcement about first class would have been confused. More concerning at a level of "if the system can't get the platform number consistently correct, what else is incorrect?"

 

[Chris M]

Would you be entitled to delay repay if your journey were delayed (to the appropriate extent) by missing a very late notice platform change?

I've received delay repay because a train was not replatformed.
Northern train ex Skipton connecting at Leeds with the last direct service to London was running very late, such that a connection was going to be about 1-2 minutes. The guard on the Northern service moved all of us who were wanting to make that connection to the front of the train, saying control had arranged for us to arrive into the bay (platform 6) that would give us a cross-platform interchange with the London train on platform 8, which would be held for up to a minute so we could make it. However we actually arrived into platform 1 and despite running as best we could with large bags (we'd been staying with my parents for 3 or 4 days) the London train pulled out when we were only by the platform 5 buffers. I don't remember whether it was held for a minute or not, but it wouldn't have made any difference.

 

[flitwickbeds]

West Hampstead Thameslink northbound used to be really bad for this. Due to the curve before the platform you can't even see the train coming in before it arrives. There was always a mass of people on the footbridge awaiting the "arriving" announcement before committing to standing on a platform.

Would you be entitled to delay repay if your journey were delayed (to the appropriate extent) by missing a very late notice platform change?

Yes, I have been awarded Delay Repay for this reason, and without a fight.

 

[SE%Traveller]

At Denmark Hill there can be very little notice given between a change of platform for the Victoria trains. After one timetable change they were all scheduled to come in on 3 whilst still actually coming in on 1 for the most part. The change announcement would come as the train was emerging from the tunnel, so no time at to make the move, hence a large contingent standing on the bridge awaiting to see which tunnel it emerged from. They did correct it in a bout a week or so but i happens on occasion

at same station during the recent strikes they have a sign that read 1/2" this station is closed there are no trains from this station" then 2/2 "Scheduled Departures from this station are...." with all the info for the 1/2 hourly Overground trains!

 

[daveo]

When it comes to, trains are run for passengers, not the other way round, and passengers feel that 'on time' (or not) means for them, not the train.

What led you to that (mistaken) opinion?

 

[43066]

While that specific case may not recur, there are still possibilities for last moment changes of island at London Bridge - one in particular was discussed here a year or two or three back, when a Thameslink was diverted on to one of the SE platforms.

This hardly ever happens. I use the station many times per week and have never experienced this.

 

[306024]

This hardly ever happens. I use the station many times per week and have never experienced this.

I use the station occasionally, and it happened last week! I was on a Brighton bound Thameslink in platform 4 waiting driver, next train diverted through platform 3. Three of us made it only because I was watching a signalling map on my phone and we were by the escalators. It all happened so quickly, no chance for anyone else.

 

[Benjwri]

This was happening on Friday at Didcot when I was there. Both Reading and Oxford shuttles were running, but also fasts to the Costwolds line were stopping at Didcot. The shuttles were taking up both platforms 3 & 4 for some reason, and so suddenly all the fasts changed to platform 5 (1 to Hereford, 1 Oxford and 1 London), huge amount of passengers all running to the platform, where the screens displayed the order incorrectly.

Admittedly the fact all the trains involved were very delayed didn't help, but the signallers caused a right mess and ended up blocking the access to the avoiding lines, and blocking the reading shuttle in the station, so had to wait for Platform 5 to become unoccupied. There were 7 trains waiting to move at once at one point, just a huge mess.

 

[skyhigh]

This is a legitimate and sensible reason for a platform change - minimising delay.

The joined up railway would ensure that all affected passengers were able to board the train, with the ensuing delay (by definition less than it would have been otherwise) attributed to the point failure.

It really depends on the situation. If it's a train I'm going to be working forward and there is a late notice platform change, I will walk down the platform informing passengers of the change and then follow them to the new platform - therefore I'm fairly certain everyone who wants the train has made it (obviously the train won't go without me, and if anyone asks about the delay I would simply say it was due to the late notice change).

If I'm already on the train and we have a late notice change it can be hard to know what has happened as there's not always an obvious indication that the platform we're going into has changed from the booked one.

 

[43066]

I use the station occasionally, and it happened last week! I was on a Brighton bound Thameslink in platform 4 waiting driver, next train diverted through platform 3. Three of us made it only because I was watching a signalling map on my phone and we were by the escalators. It all happened so quickly, no chance for anyone else.

You were very unlucky!

 

[Dr Hoo]

Announcements need to be as helpful as possible. I happened to be on the footbridge at Sheffield the other day when an East Midlands train was delayed in Platform 2 so a northbound CrossCountry booked and indicated for Platform 2 was switched to Platform 5 - the opposite through face. Not a big deal.

However the automated announcement just said "Platform alteration. The XX.21 to Newcastle will now depart from Platform 5". There was a mass panic as a large number of passengers surged up the four staircases to the bridge, dragging bags, children and buggies. With my Retired Former Station Manager 'ask me' face it was inevitable that they scrummed around me crying out "Where's Platform 5, where's Platform 5..." and I had to direct them back down whence they had come in the face of crowds still trying to ascend. Quite an anxious moment in crowd control safety terms.

Obviously the automated announcement ought to be sophisticated enough to say "Cross to Platform X" where relevant or "Cross via the footbridge to Platform Y" as applicable. A human announcer would use appropriate phrasing without even thinking about it.

 

[150249]

I had one a while ago when I was off to Exmouth. The supposed Exmouth train came in on platform 1 a minute after the Paignton train came in on Platform 3 at Exeter St David's. They then made an announcement that said the Exmouth train was now departing from Platform 3. The train departed just before everyone could get in it since some had started boarding the train on Platform 1.

 

[Tangent]

I use the station occasionally, and it happened last week! I was on a Brighton bound Thameslink in platform 4 waiting driver, next train diverted through platform 3. Three of us made it only because I was watching a signalling map on my phone and we were by the escalators. It all happened so quickly, no chance for anyone else.

Indeed; I was travelling at around the same time.

Very occasionally, Down trains from Cannon Street may be suddenly switched from P1 to P2.

 

[High Dyke]

The Mem sahib gets annoyed with that,when her train control does a set swap at Nottingham. They arrive on P4 and then have to walk to P1 or P3. Not the shortest of walks, but they get little or no notice and are expected to achieve it in a couple of minutes. Totally unreasonable!

 

[westv]

When I travelled from Guildford for six months in 2018 it wasn't unusual for the platform of my train to be changed just a minute or so before it came in. In one unfortunate incident I knocked a cup of coffee out of someone's hand as they turned as I rushed past to get to the new platform.

 

[Class800]

This hardly ever happens. I use the station many times per week and have never experienced this.

Same. Probably only if there's major disruption or a points or signal failure on the station approach

 

[flitwickbeds]

West Hampstead Thameslink northbound used to be really bad for this. Due to the curve before the platform you can't even see the train coming in before it arrives. There was always a mass of people on the footbridge awaiting the "arriving" announcement before committing to standing on a platform.

Just remembered one incident where there was a revenue block at West Hampstead Thameslink and a late notice platform change was made. The staff (kindly) left their positions, one of them went to the drivers cab (presumably to tell the driver to wait a few minutes), one stayed at the bottom of the staircase of the new platform and assisted with luggage etc, and 2 more went to the original platform and ensured everyone was aware and changing platforms. Very helpful.

The one at the bottom of the staircase kept shouting "don't worry, we're here, the train's not leaving until everyone is in board". The temptation to shout "THIS HAPPENS TO ME TWICE A WEEK AND HALF THE PEOPLE NEVER MAKE THE TRAIN!" was so tempting (but I resisted!)

 

[norbitonflyer]

I don't believe the platform staff are aware of the change any sooner than the passengers are, either. It just looks like another case of "operational convenience" trumping passenger convenience and common sense.

No, but they will be aware of the alteration before the train departs and should ensure that people have had adequate time to cross. (and that means the arthritic person with two cases, not Usain Bolt). If it delays the train - tough. They should have thought of that before changing the platform.

 

[william.martin]

So at Havant today there were multiple last minute platform changes and I can tell people were annoyed.

Due to the London Waterloo via Guildford line being closed for engineering works, there’s a bus replacement between Havant and haslemere. Trains from Portsmouth terminate/start at Havant and trains from Waterloo terminate/start from haslemere.

But because of the sudden changes, people were rushing over and a lot of them didn’t make it in time or was told one thing but it was the other platform.

I think signallers need to be clearer and possibly allow 3-4 minutes to give people time to cross.

There are big families with little ones, disabled people, people with luggage and elderly.

What are your opinions please ?

I think that they should give as much notice as possible (when it is possible to do so.)
Though sometimes things can go wrong at the last minute. The once I had a platform alteration at Shrewsbury and it was only announced as the train was pulling into its newly assigned platform however the fabulous station and train staff held the train for an extra minute or two so passengers could get all the way from plat 3 to plat 7.