Leeds Bradford Airport - Alternative rail access proposals?

[Nomad8459]

Forgive my scrappy drawing of the line - but outlines the idea - the southbound junction may need to be further south of the tunnel - i was just browsing maps the other day wondering if a rail link ever could exist and if so best way to do it.

 

[Spartacus]

Only either with and outrageously steep line or equally expensive tunnel. I've walked the track between Dean Grange and Moseley Farm and it's pretty steep, far too steep for a normal railway. What's always overlooked is the height difference, about 250ft in about a mile. Over the whole thing the gradient would at best be about 1 in 20, the Lickey is 1 in 37.7. But that doesn't allow for the size of the junction which would be flat, or the station which would be also, or that the steepest gradient is closest to the current line where the junction would have to be flat. Even with a big long cutting to average it out you'd still end up with a line only rack railways could probably handle, or at least something comparable to the steepest bits of the Cromford & High Peak.

 

[Nomad8459]

Thought I did see some kind of height to the railway sides there.. seems a shame if it's totally a no go as it's pretty near to a railway which hasn't always been the case and a well linked railway at that.. sure modern civil engineering could solve most things these days tbh.. look at what Denmark and Sweden are doing with their stuff .. not done much research on this just saw the close proximity and as I say.. amazed it actually was close to a line already.. thanks for the info..

 

[Spartacus]

You might just about get away with a tram/train line, but I reckon that would still be marginal for practicality, regardless of cost. The biggest problem wouldn't really be getting up (though that would be a big enough issue for must current stock), but getting back down again in safety, being able to stop at the bottom if needed.

 

[Harpers Tate]

We used to be able to build tunnels, of course. And underground stations, too. They still can in (for example) Hong Kong. Yeah, I know..... £££££ . But £££££ is only, ultimately, a matter of the will to do it; the willingness to spend those £££££. As is, seemingly, the case in the South East.

 

[Ianno87]

We used to be able to build tunnels, of course. And underground stations, too. They still can in (for example) Hong Kong. Yeah, I know..... £££££ . But £££££ is only, ultimately, a matter of the will to do it; the willingness to spend those £££££. As is, seemingly, the case in the South East.

The only airports in Britain that have tunnelled rail infrastructure are Heathrow and Stansted. Even Stansted's 26 million annual passengers dwarfs Leeds Bradfords 4 million. You could probably do some simple maths to demonstrate what proportion of LBA's passengers would benefit from a tunnel (probably not many, as passengers will come from all directions across Yorkshire), and attribute the cost per passenger to provide it.

Meanwhile, Stansted's core catchments are Central London, and Cambridge to a lesser extent, and as such has the highest public transport modal share of any airport in the UK.

 

[Nomad8459]

The only airports in Britain that have tunnelled rail infrastructure are Heathrow and Stansted. Even Stansted's 26 million annual passengers dwarfs Leeds Bradfords 4 million. You could probably do some simple maths to demonstrate what proportion of LBA's passengers would benefit from a tunnel (probably not many, as passengers will come from all directions across Yorkshire), and attribute the cost per passenger to provide it.

Meanwhile, Stansted's core catchments are Central London, and Cambridge to a lesser extent, and as such has the highest public transport modal share of any airport in the UK.

Its all true - but for 30 years now we have dealt with current capacities and not ever thought about future capacities - the M62 corridor has got very busy of late

 

[Spartacus]

Its all true - but for 30 years now we have dealt with current capacities and not ever thought about future capacities - the M62 corridor has got very busy of late

Leeds/Bradford probably needs downgrading with money spent on Church Fenton then.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Leeds Bradford Airport has always been problematical being situated on top of a wind exposed moor. Although it has been able to grow passenger numbers, especially since Jet2 started, it will never attract long-haul operations precisely because of its "risky" weather patterns. Manchester being so close (in aviation terms) also undermines LBA's case for serious expansion. To justify the cost of a rail connection requires a critical mass of air passengers. If a line could be built cheaply then that number of passengers could be relatively small (see Newcastle and T&W Metro) but in this case its just not going to happen. Too bad that Leeds does not have a tram system: an extension to Yeadon might be more feasible.

 

[superkev]

Its a pity that rather than extend the existing terminal piecemeal over the years creating the current rabbit Warren then didnt build a new building at the Leeds and of the runway with funincular type rail link.
K

 

[Iskra]

Leeds/Bradford probably needs downgrading with money spent on Church Fenton then.

They've just announced a £20m expansion.

I'd love an underground railway station to solve the problem, but it's not going to happen.

Sadly it's easier to get to Manchester airport than it is Leeds, even from parts of West Yorkshire. When I lived just West of Leeds, it was easier to get to Manchester. But I guess it's a problem not worth solving as long as Manchester has spare capacity.

 

[snowball]

As far as I know Leeds City Council still wants a new station north of Horsforth with a road to the airport, and may be able to afford it with the money previously earmarked for the trolleybus.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As far as I know Leeds City Council still wants a new station north of Horsforth with a road to the airport, and may be able to afford it with the money previously earmarked for the trolleybus.

Hopefully it'll go way over budget and mean Leeds council will have to cancel the ridiculous White Rose Centre station idea.

 

[MarkyT]

Its a pity that rather than extend the existing terminal piecemeal over the years creating the current rabbit Warren then didnt build a new building at the Leeds and of the runway with funincular type rail link.
K

Some kind of people mover could link the existing terminal and any proposed new station site on the Harrogate line. Maybe some kind of automated pod system on a largely dedicated road.

 

[Clip]

Some kind of people mover could link the existing terminal and any proposed new station site on the Harrogate line. Maybe some kind of automated pod system on a largely dedicated road.

Indeed as where the OP has put the station looks like its still a fair bit away from the terminal so something would be needed to get there too. Have the station at the bottom of the hill then a delightful water counter balancing furnicular railway to take them to the top

 

[Iskra]

Some kind of people mover could link the existing terminal and any proposed new station site on the Harrogate line. Maybe some kind of automated pod system on a largely dedicated road.

Leeds City Council do love a guided busway...

 

[Bantamzen]

Leeds/Bradford probably needs downgrading with money spent on Church Fenton then.

Absolutely never going to happen, even just getting CF to anywhere near something like LBA would cost hundreds of millions, and that's before you even get to the infrastructure to get passengers there.

In all honesty I don't see a rail link ever being considered save a parkway station on the current alignment. Far more like is a road upgrade or new road to increase capacity to LBA.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the reference to Church Fenton, is that the airfield at Sherburn-in-Elmet, or is that a different location?

 

[Spartacus]

Nah, it's former RAF Chirch Fenton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Church_Fenton

BTW, I was never being all that serious abour Leeds/Bradford being downgraded in favour of Chirch Fenton, precisely due to cost grounds, though if there was the option to start again it's the one I'd go for. It would likely take less money to get Church Fenton from it's current state to the level of a dedicated station being viable than to do the same for Leeds/Bradford (save the Parkway idea, which is more or less what already exists at Church Fenton.)

 

[MarkyT]

A rail alignment might be possible by diverging at Horsforth and climbing the hill slowly over about three km at a gradient of about 1 in 38 (2.632%). The branch could form a useful terminating point for enhanced local stopping services from Leeds, increasing frequency at Burley Park, Headingly and Horsforth. Absolutely no point whatsoever in trying to run it as a dedicated premium airport express. the same alignment might be used for a peoplemover shuttle or private transit road, connecting with trains at Horsforth.

I don't see much point in an additional station north of Horsforth on the Harrogate line (whether designated 'parkway' or not) as it could only be a maximum of about 1.4km from Horsforth (due to the tunnel) and it wouldn't really serve anywhere new apart from the airport, which it wouldn't do particularly well either. It would add to journey time for any service that stopped there. There's room to expand parking at Horsforth if desired and that station is well connected by road including local bus feeder services.

 

[plarailfan]

There was a bit of a story that Leeds Bradford airport, might be replaced by a new one near the M1 motorway, at Stourton / Hunslet, but that seems to have gone quiet now.
Manchester airport has grown significantly in recent years and I suppose it seems reasonable to suppose that Leeds Bradford could expand their customer base.
I like the plan (by MarkyT) and hope that some kind of rail link from the Harrogate line does go ahead, as the area could do with an economic boost. Many local people are struggling along, with a limited range of job opportunities and many firms paying no more than the nat min wage even for Sunday and bank holiday working !
With the Yorkshire Dales only being half an hour from the airport, employers might consider relocating if transport links were good for potential customers. The roads around Yeadon and the airport can become badly congested during the "rush hour" and over the summer weekends !

 

[snowball]

The proposed station and road link that I mentioned in #12 featured on BBC Look North (Leeds) tonight. I'm not clear what triggered the item but I think the BBC revealed the plans to the people who currently farm the land.

 

[Clip]

I dont know the area at all but from seeing MarkyT's post isnt there anyway you could make it a through line rather than just a terminal station?
You dont want a similar situation that you have at other airports if they are looking to expand flights from there as people will need to come from both directions - though this would add to the bill it seems better to do it now then in the future

 

[MarkyT]

I dont know the area at all but from seeing MarkyT's post isnt there anyway you could make it a through line rather than just a terminal station?
You dont want a similar situation that you have at other airports if they are looking to expand flights from there as people will need to come from both directions - though this would add to the bill it seems better to do it now then in the future

A big advantage of this simple spur alignment is that it gets the buffer stop end of the airport station very close to the terminal without requiring any demolition or significant alterations to any buildings, only affecting car parking space and access roads. It would be very much more difficult to take an alignment through or around the north side of the airport to link back to the Ilkeley line for a service towards Bradford. The station might have to be further away from the air terminal too to avoid impractical alterations and disruption, which then might require a people mover or travelator link in addition. If a Bradford service is ever justified it might be better to create a triangular junction from Aire valley west towards the Harrogate line to access the same spur line. Hawkesworth Woods (yellow) might be a plausible route, avoiding significant demolition: 2.3km at average gradient 1:37 (2.7%). There would be justified local environmental objections I'm sure though, and some big structures required to cross the valleys. It's also a long route into central Bradford via Shipley, although depending on where the mooted Bradford tunnel came out at the Leeds end, NPR infrastructure might offer a potential shorter, faster route (see orange)

 

[Clip]

Okey dokey thanks for that.

 

[MarkyT]

Something I missed before was that there is a turnback siding at Horsforth already, fairly recently relaid by the looks of it, on the west side of the layout. This would be perfect to provide the junction for an airport spur which could be an extension of the current siding. Thus track and signalling changes could be significantly minimised if a simple single track branch layout and terminus was adopted that should be adequate able to deliver up to a 15 minute interval service.

 

[MarkyT]

Here's an alternative with the road and airport bus link going to Horsforth instead of a new station further north.

The longer link road (light blue) could approach Horsforth from the north and the bus turnback (orange) and rail parking (blue) connected solely to it and not linked through to existing local roads in Horsforth near the bridge. The approach road alignment might be planned for conversion or widening to accomodate a railway track alongside in the future. The station, bus terminal and local road network would be linked up by improved pedestrian/cycle routes (pink), which might link into further active travel pathways going north if additional areas were opened up for housing development.

 

[bluenoxid]

Thank you @MarkyT. That is what I was thinking. I would cut the link road towards Scotland Lane and upgrade that road until what I expect will be the bypass is built.

 

[30907]

Here's an alternative with the road and airport bus link going to Horsforth instead of a new station further north.
View attachment 53085

An ingenious solution - to make it more customer friendly you could flatten the industrial buildings by the station (are they on the old goods yard?) and move the bus terminal there.
I don't know the area well, but guess that said businesses have no overwhelming reason to be exactly where they are?

 

[MarkyT]

An ingenious solution - to make it more customer friendly you could flatten the industrial buildings by the station (are they on the old goods yard?) and move the bus terminal there.
I don't know the area well, but guess that said businesses have no overwhelming reason to be exactly where they are?

It appears to be an independent DIY superstore called "Woodlands". I would have thought they would be amenable to move somewhere else suitable nearby given the right offer of a new site with better road access than the current tight turn into a narrow lane.
https://www.woodlandsdiy.com/our-location/

WOODLANDS DIY STORE - HORSFORTH, LEEDS
The Woodlands DIY Store has served customers in Leeds for over 105 years. We began in 1913 under the trading name Hurst and Woodhead – the first timber merchant in Leeds. In 1980 the Horsforth store was born under the name Woodlands with a modest selection of timber and DIY materials.

The Woodlands DIY Store is situated next to Horsforth train station and is open 7 days a week, serving customers in Horsforth, Cookridge, Rawdon, Yeadon, Guiseley and more. We offer both local Yorkshire delivery and national delivery for many products.

At our Woodlands DIY Store you can shop for all your building, timber and joinery, decorating, gardening and diy-ing supplies. Whether you are just shopping for nails or need timber for a project our friendly team can help you find all you are looking for. If you are a tradesman or DIY-er we are here to help, so don’t hesitate to ask.