Less than 50% of delay repay being claimed

[trainophile]

Please delete if there's another thread about this...

Minority of affected passengers seeking delay repay compensation, union says

Fewer than half of eligible rail passengers who are entitled to compensation under the delay repay scheme are putting in a claim, a new report claims. Research by the Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT) suggested that only 47% of passengers are putting in claims with rail companies when...

nation.cymru

Fewer than half of eligible rail passengers who are entitled to compensation under the delay repay scheme are putting in a claim, a new report claims.

Research by the Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT) suggested that only 47% of passengers are putting in claims with rail companies when their train is delayed.

The union said it was “highly likely” that around £100 million has not been claimed in the past year.

Caught this on the radio news briefs in the small hours of this morning. Was quite surprised that it's the RMT who have flagged this up (how would they know?), and wondered what their point was.

My theory is that the TOCs make it far too fiddly to claim, so a lot of people simply can't be bothered, which is all wrong. I always claim out of principle, and also because "every little helps", but it is a faff sometimes.

 

[AlterEgo]

Caught this on the radio news briefs in the small hours of this morning. Was quite surprised that it's the RMT who have flagged this up (how would they know?), and wondered what their point was.

From the article, it's an excuse to say this:

Mick Lynch, RMT general secretary said: “This scandalous situation where private rail companies are effectively profiting from running a poor service could be ended with a single integrated ticket system alongside a nationalised rail operator."

Transport Focus have the 47% figure: https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/blog/make-delay-pay-more-passengers-claiming-compensation/

Of course what the RMT don't say is that a smart, automatically-administered, robo-refund national ticketing scheme would put some of their members out of work. The unproductive and Byzantine ticket scheme we have is partly why we have ticket offices - because so many people need a dedicated member of staff to sell thema. ticket.

 

[Horizon22]

Isn't 47% a reasonable increase on the last time this was reported? Anyway the RMT rhetoric is generally around 'evil private rail companies' so anything that fits that narrative they'll report on either if it might actually have longer-term staff consequences.

Obviously it's a shame for those who are eligible and don't claim and perhaps it could be less complex, but its unlikely to be 80%+ for a range of reasons.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Last successful Delay Repay claim I made was for the princely sum of 63p. I routinely claim whenever delayed but a lot of folk wouldn't bother for such a small amount.

 

[Horizon22]

Last successful Delay Repay claim I made was for the princely sum of 63p. I routinely claim whenever delayed but a lot of folk wouldn't bother for such a small amount.

Yes it would be interesting to know what % of the unpaid claims were for less than £1 / £5.

 

[Essex Express]

Having put claims in to Avanti West Coast and took them 3 months to finally provide me with a full refund for my journey my explain why most do not claim.
So i travelled from north Essex to London, London to Birmingham New street and Birmingham Snow Hill to Kidderminster all separate tickets the train from London to Birmingham was canceled so 30 minutes in Euston then next train terminated at Birmingham international. So had to get on a local train to New Street so was 1 hour late in New Street. First reply was need to put claim to Abellio Greater Anglia as they were the start station. So did try and call them waiting time of 1 hour 15 minutes average time to answer my call. Finally after speaking to the customer services manager they sorted it and a full refund for the journey.

 

[Merseysider]

I don’t bother most of the time - it isn’t worth my time for small sums going into town and back.

I maybe put in 2-3 per year, generally only if the amount would be useful or the company’s handling of the delay has pi$$ed me off.

Last one I can remember doing was CrossCountry in summer which netted around £10… which was promptly spent on beer.

 

[6Gman]

I don’t bother most of the time - it isn’t worth my time for small sums going into town and back.

I maybe put in 2-3 per year, generally only if the amount would be useful or the company’s handling of the delay has pi$$ed me off.

Last one I can remember doing was CrossCountry in summer which netted around £10… which was promptly spent on beer.

This.

I think I've claimed twice, ever.

On both occasions the delay was badly handled.

 

[NorthWestRover]

Yes it would be interesting to know what % of the unpaid claims were for less than £1 / £5.

Yeah, my train Wigan to Man Vic was 25 minutes late on Saturday. So 1/8 refund of £7.50, even less for people on intermediate stops. Who's going to bother?

 

[Kite159]

Yes it would be interesting to know what % of the unpaid claims were for less than £1 / £5.

Agreed, for some passengers claiming for a 15-29 minute delay when the ticket cost is low so the value they would get back would be less than a quid it's not worth the hassle.

 

[Snow1964]

Only ever claimed 3 times,
twice got bounced between two companies (through journeys), had to follow up
other time were they adamant train was 29 minutes late (even though doors weren't released to get off until 30 minutes and few seconds (per station digital clock), so didn't get any money

Such a lot of hassle to successfully claim, can see why people don't bother

 

[Purple Train]

I never bother, as I have always found staff to be exceptionally helpful when caught in such a situation. I'm not even sure if I would claim even were that not the case as it is such a faff.

 

[renegademaster]

I never found Avanti claim site that much of chore.

 

[Kite159]

Or how many people wish to claim but the gateline assistant forces them to put their tickets into the gates which gets captured even after explaining that you were delayed?

 

[YorksLad12]

I always claim, spurred on by the memory of a 100% refund for a train that was 61 minutes down. I was in First, so well worth the effort.

What would be nice would be if we didn't have the delay bands. Mine tonight was officially 29 minutes late. Another 20 seconds and I'd get 50% of my ticket back instead of 12.5% (though at least Northern does that, I don't think CrossCountry does, they'd go bankrupt!). If it was something like 2% for every minute delayed after 10 minutes, you'd still get 100% back for a one-hour delay.

 

[trainophile]

Or how many people wish to claim but the gateline assistant forces them to put their tickets into the gates which gets captured even after explaining that you were delayed?

When I can see which way it's going I usually take a photo of my ticket before arriving. Easy to delete if not required, and the evidence is there if it is retained by a barrier.

 

[zero]

You have 28 days to claim, so even for small amounts there is bound to be a time when you have nothing to do, such as when waiting on another delayed train.

If I'm on a delayed train with a paper ticket to a barriered station, I take a photo of it before getting off. I guess that might be hard if the train is really crowded but this hasn't happened to me in my memory.

 

[yorkie]

Or how many people wish to claim but the gateline assistant forces them to put their tickets into the gates which gets captured even after explaining that you were delayed?

In my area, the vast majority of people are on barcode tickets now, so that's not an issue.

Furthermore, those who know about Delay Repay are generally savvy enough to take a photo before exiting, or to ask staff to be let through manually; the reality isn't that people are denied DR due to gates but most people just won't bother.

There is no way I'd claim for 63p.

I wasn't going to claim for a delay on Thameslink the other day, but as I was charged a premium to avoid the queue of trains between Farringdon and King's Cross, I may put in a claim to get back the premium on principle

 

[Mcr Warrior]

There is no way I'd claim for 63p.

Not sure I would again in the future. Too much faff.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I attended a get-together of retired Railfreight Distribution staff last week. The 16 of us totalled over a thousand years of railway experience. One old boy complained that when his train was delayed he was entitled to zero compensation. I had to patiently explain to him that he was travelling on a free pass!

 

[MrJeeves]

For what it's worth, my smallest claims have been for 70p (x2), 80p (x2) for my commute on a season a while ago, and 89p for a 15m delay on a Swift 1 week nNetwork.

Then again, my largest claim was £76.55 for 100% compo on a RailSail ticket from LNER.

It all balances out in the end, but even though my median delay repay compensation per claim over the last year has been £2.60, I'm not going to stop claiming even when it's a few pence I'm owed. I've got GTR's DR claim form nailed down to about 2 mins per claim now, and given they make up 77% of my claims, it's not that much of a chore.

...except when I have to re-submit a claim 3 times and get in touch on Twitter twice before they accept it.

I'm glad I started tracking all of my DR claims, just because it's interesting to see the statistics that come from it.

 

[Dr Hoo]

From the article, it's an excuse to say this:

Mick Lynch, RMT general secretary said: “This scandalous situation where private rail companies are effectively profiting from running a poor service could be ended with a single integrated ticket system alongside a nationalised rail operator."

Can somebody explain exactly how a private company makes a profit from not paying out Delay Repay? I thought that currently the (non-publicly owned) DfT operators basically got a 'fixed fee/percentage'. If revenue is down or refunded it is the Treasury that takes the hit. The DfT is liable for all of the costs, including those extra ones associated with disruption such as staff overtime, taxis or replacement buses for stuck passengers and hotel costs for anyone stranded overnight.

I.e. it's basically 'the taxpayer' who is worse off and the 'TOC' is very largely insulated.

Or have I got this wrong?

 

[Stephen42]

Yes it would be interesting to know what % of the unpaid claims were for less than £1 / £5.

It's all survey based so the numbers aren't exact and willingness to take a survey/claim delay repay are possibly linked. The survey data shows the expected difference based on ticket price, 34% under £10, 47% £10 to £50 with 59% over £50 all of these excluding season tickets were claim rates are understandably higher. From page 31 of the full tables

The 'highly likely' from the RMT figure appears to be based on taking the amount paid out and assuming the other 50% not claimed would be worth the same amount.

 

[D1537]

Unless the amount is significant, I tend not to bother unless the delay has caused me major inconvenience. Having said that, a lot of my journeys are long-distance, so many of the amounts are worth claiming for (£82 from LNER a few weeks ago). LNER's DR process is very easy, btw.

 

[trainophile]

Are most operators' delay repay systems set to check and pay out entirely automatically, or is there almost always a human involved?

I've put claims in for 98p, had instant acknowledgement, and approval within a couple of hours, and the money in my bank account within a few days. If there was a queueing system for claims to be dealt with I doubt things would be this speedy, so I'm guessing somehow their software identifies a genuine claim, and is set to pay out to the account detailed in the relevant BACS request without any human needing to verity it?

 

[Rail Quest]

Mick Lynch, RMT general secretary said: “This scandalous situation where private rail companies are effectively profiting from running a poor service could be ended with a single integrated ticket system alongside a nationalised rail operator."

Doesn't the RMT's research include non-private TOC's though? I can't find anything to suggest the contrary - this would probably reduce the £100 mil figure for actually profiting private companies.

Additionally - I believe Network Rail essentially pay for any DR compensation through fines if the delays were infrastructure related so not necessarily all of the money contained within that figure will actually be money that should be claimed because of poor TOC performance. The only delays I've had the misfortune of claiming not caused by an infrastructure related issue was thanks to a failed 156 recently. All other major claims I've made are infrastructure related.

I agree with the above sentiments for sure as well - a lot of delays aren't really worth claiming for the majority of people. I generally claim wherever I can but that's only because I can make use of the complimentary Northern passes for most delays I claim on

 

[zero]

Are most operators' delay repay systems set to check and pay out entirely automatically, or is there almost always a human involved?

I've put claims in for 98p, had instant acknowledgement, and approval within a couple of hours, and the money in my bank account within a few days. If there was a queueing system for claims to be dealt with I doubt things would be this speedy, so I'm guessing somehow their software identifies a genuine claim, and is set to pay out to the account detailed in the relevant BACS request without any human needing to verity it?

If the claim is straightforward, such as a journey on one train with no changes which was obviously delayed, and a ticket that can be automatically verified such as an e-ticket or an uncomplicated paper ticket, then I believe most TOCs do it automatically.

 

[hexagon789]

I must admit, having read the trials and tribulations of many members on here with claiming Delay Repay, the first time I did my own claim I was not expecting miracles but the opposite.

It was complicated by the fact I didn't have the tickets anymore, having been swallowed by the barriers on arrival at my destination.

Nevertheless, the online claim form stated that reservation coupons were acceptable, so I uploaded a photo of that.

I expected automatic rejection, instead I got £103 (and a few pence) back in less than 7 days.

So it does work sometimes!

I still feel for all those poor sods tearing their hair out from doing so many loops of the automatic rejection systems...

 

[Mojo]

I think what is more concerning than the fact that under 50% of people are claiming Delay Repay is how many legitimate claims are being rejected by Tocs on the first occasion. I would estimate in my albeit limited sample size that at least a third of my claims have been rejected by the Toc in the first instance.

 

[alistairlees]

Can somebody explain exactly how a private company makes a profit from not paying out Delay Repay? I thought that currently the (non-publicly owned) DfT operators basically got a 'fixed fee/percentage'. If revenue is down or refunded it is the Treasury that takes the hit. The DfT is liable for all of the costs, including those extra ones associated with disruption such as staff overtime, taxis or replacement buses for stuck passengers and hotel costs for anyone stranded overnight.

I.e. it's basically 'the taxpayer' who is worse off and the 'TOC' is very largely insulated.

Or have I got this wrong?

You are completely correct. The claim is just RMT BS.