Less than 50% of delay repay being claimed

[Birkonian]

I've received e-mails on two occasions recently from Avanti stating that I was eligible for Delay Repay. On both trips I took an earlier train which Avanti allows so didn't claim. I'm not dishonest. Both journeys will fall in the unclaimed %age.

 

[Travelmonkey]

I've received e-mails on two occasions recently from Avanti stating that I was eligible for Delay Repay. On both trips I took an earlier train which Avanti allows so didn't claim. I'm not dishonest. Both journeys will fall in the unclaimed %age.

I could be the same both my canned trains Saturday noticed on the boards so jumped a earlier train although I did have to sacrifice breakfast to catch a earlier train though ,

Getting back to the issue I think some of it comes from paperwork football if you take more than one TOC they like to pass the buck between themselves,

 

[Hadders]

I've had hundreds back in delay repay claims over the last few years (maybe thousands). 2018 was a bumper year caused by the Thameslink meltdown, for a period of time I was making at least one claim every day!

While those of us on this forum generally know the rules it's too ambigous for normal passengers. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to help friends and family members understand what they are entitled to and who to claim from. Just this weekend I had to help my brother submit two claims to EMR. For one of the legs he didn't think he'd be able to claim but I pointed out that a 6 minute delay into St Pancras meant he missed his onward connection resulting in a 30 minute delay.

Also, the rules when claiming for multiple passengers are too inconsistent. For example if making a claim for an adult and child it's unreasonable to expect a separate claim to be submitted for the child ticket. Taking EMR as an example (from my experience of using their system at the weekend) they have a box to tick to say multiple passengers but then nowhere to upload the additional ticket or give any further details. I just added it all together and uploaded one photo of both tickets but how many would bother to do this?

Or how many people wish to claim but the gateline assistant forces them to put their tickets into the gates which gets captured even after explaining that you were delayed?

I've never had an issue with keeping a ticket to make a delay repay claim.

 

[MrJeeves]

Also, the rules when claiming for multiple passengers are too inconsistent. For example if making a claim for an adult and child it's unreasonable to expect a separate claim to be submitted for the child ticket. Taking EMR as an example (from my experience of using their system at the weekend) they have a box to tick to say multiple passengers but then nowhere to upload the additional ticket or give any further details. I just added it all together and uploaded one photo of both tickets but how many would bother to do this?

Amusingly, GTR doesn't let you create a claim with multiple passengers (you could probably fudge it with ticket number 00000 and combined cost) and then will auto-decline a second claim as you've "already made a claim for this service/another service in this time period"...

Very confusing to the average person and enough to make them just not bother.

 

[Tom B]

Whilst not a NR TOC, I claim for LUL refunds every time they are applicable. They are automatically rejected if you go to another station, take another route or there is absolutely any derivation from a very straighforward example (which makes me think they are automated at that stage). It is not made easy to argue this case, as there's no obvious link to state your case, but if you do so you will get it refunded "as a gesture of goodwill". This contrasts noticeably with the old system, prior to 2014, where an obvious alternative route during disruption would result in a refund first time, if you remained delayed.

 

[zero]

There is a widespread belief that split tickets make you ineligible for delay repay on the full journey, as seen on other UK forums - although the only way TOCs may know these journeys exist would be if delay claims are made, so they may have a 100% claim rate

 

[johntea]

If you're selecting cash rather than complimentary tickets with Northern you're doing it wrong

I think they're one of only a handful of operators that offer them and makes it a no brainer to apply for delays of 30 minutes or more, the icing on the cake is you then get delayed on your journey using your complimentary ticket then you're perfectly entitled to claim using it for another one!

 

[dangie]

I bought a single ticket at Stafford for Stafford to Rugeley. Only one stop.

The next train arrived from Crewe but was terminated. An hour until the next one so I decided to catch the bus instead. Went back into the ticket office and asked for a refund.

’Sorry we can’t do that, we’re Avanti and your train is London North Western so you’ll need to go through them’.

‘But you sold me the ticket 10 minutes ago’

Absolutly bonkers that the station which sells you the ticket can’t refund it when the train doesn’t turn up.

 

[alistairlees]

I bought a single ticket at Stafford for Stafford to Rugeley. Only one stop.

The next train arrived from Crewe but was terminated. An hour until the next one so I decided to catch the bus instead. Went back into the ticket office and asked for a refund.

’Sorry we can’t do that, we’re Avanti and your train is London North Western so you’ll need to go through them’.

‘But you sold me the ticket 10 minutes ago’

Absolutly bonkers that the station which sells you the ticket can’t refund it when the train doesn’t turn up.

They were completely wrong not to refund you in full without any admin fee. It’s irrelevant which TOC they work for - you err entitled to a 100% refund. Even if it was an Advance ticket.

 

[Bantamzen]

I think the only times I've ever claimed Delay Repay is when I've been travelling with work and been late for meetings or events. Most of the rest of the time the value of it has been so low I just haven't bothered, or more likely just never even thought about it.

But I must admit I finding the timing of this a bit odd. I mean regardless of the reasons for it, the strike action of the last couple of years is one of the reasons why people have been getting delayed. So is this really just a bit of a public trust re-building exercise, the start of a new campaign to keep their union in the public eye in case the current pay & TOCs despite comes to an end, or a political swipe at the government? I mean it could also just be me being cynical after a couple of years seeing some of the worst service levels in a long time for my regular journeys, but if this is the case then I am in good company as many other punters feel pretty much as fed up with the rail industry as I do.

Whatever the reason, as I say the timing seems odd. At a time when the railways could do with less revenue loss, highlighting that the public could eat a little more into that seems, well odd. This is not to say people shouldn't claim DR, before anyone gets angry, I just think the union should maybe be concentrating on helping their members deliver a better service before next year's round of pay claims / disputes, that's far more likely to gain traction in public support than this.

 

[156421]

I've never had an issue with keeping a ticket to make a delay repay claim.

I had such difficulty with a Scotrail claim (paper ticket) some weeks back (INV-BIF, delay officially attributed to Scotrail although AWC were contenders also), they were asking for a photo of a defaced ticket (I no longer had the ticket just a photo thereof) presumably to prevent me using it again fraudulently despite it being valid for 1 day only and that day being in the past.

 

[jfollows]

I never found Avanti claim site that much of chore.

The Avanti claim process is fine once you've gone through a rigmarole of "signing up" to it, when they have all the information they need already. Then they make you confirm that the details they have for each delayed trip are "really correct" even though they get to decide ultimately anyway. So these processes gate off a number of otherwise perfectly valid claims. It's called "automatic" but it isn't.
My memory from a friend who used Virgin was that he was paid automatically with no need for any action on his part, but I'm going on second-hand information here.
Avanti are not the only company here to present unnecessary hurdles to claiming Delay Repay, so I can see why the percentage of valid payouts is low.
Once I went through the Avanti process and am now set up, it seems to work OK.

 

[chris_in_salop]

I've never claimed. I know it's irrational, but I can't shake off the idea that claiming Delay Repay is scrounging.

 

[Haywain]

Additionally - I believe Network Rail essentially pay for any DR compensation through fines if the delays were infrastructure related so not necessarily all of the money contained within that figure will actually be money that should be claimed because of poor TOC performance

That is a completely separate matter that is unrelated to Delay Repay.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

It's all survey based so the numbers aren't exact and willingness to take a survey/claim delay repay are possibly linked. The survey data shows the expected difference based on ticket price, 34% under £10, 47% £10 to £50 with 59% over £50 all of these excluding season tickets were claim rates are understandably higher. From page 31 of the full tables

The 'highly likely' from the RMT figure appears to be based on taking the amount paid out and assuming the other 50% not claimed would be worth the same amount.

There's also a potential bias in that the survey respondents were recruited by email invitation from consumer web panels maintained by commercial data-collecting firms - so there is the question of how typical those panel members are in the first place. The weighting of the responses apparently adjusted for age, gender and "territory" (i.e. region/nation) but not for any other characteristics. One bias is that the panels used are presumably made up wholly of GB residents; it would seem pretty certain that non-residents are less likely to claim for eligible delays.

 

[Markdvdman]

I tend to always book a ticket from Bridgend to Llanelli on the TFW app now. 3 out of the last 4 times I have had auto delay repay. Twice it was 25% and last Friday it was 50% as it was 45 mins late. Irony was they used a 2 car 158, then attached a 153 and 2x150 on at Swansea but this made the delay much worse (as the Pembroke train was cancelled). Irony is that is was so packed nobody even checked any tickets!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Hmmm well, maybe if

1. Claims weren't screamed by an AI bot who either doesn't understand or is specifically programmed to reject perfectly valid claims for spurious reasons


2. If the process was a lot easier and I might add screen reader friendly and no doubt friendly to other people with additional needs

3. If the direct result of 0.1 was not endless appeals and emails and phone calls to customer relations

4. If delay repay was not now being used as a way of prosecuting innocent passengers who might just conceivably make the same journey on a regular basis and as a result of traveling more regularly the ratio of delayed journey versus on time one altered somewhat and so therefore more delay claims were made

5. I could go on but wont

 

[Rail Quest]

That is a completely separate matter that is unrelated to Delay Repay.

Does Network Rail not pay out to the TOCs for infrastructure related issues then? If so then I'd be saying the opposite that the TOCs are having to pay for delay repays for incidents that weren't their fault

 

[LickeyIncliner]

I think the only times I've ever claimed Delay Repay is when I've been travelling with work and been late for meetings or events. Most of the rest of the time the value of it has been so low I just haven't bothered, or more likely just never even thought about it.

But I must admit I finding the timing of this a bit odd. I mean regardless of the reasons for it, the strike action of the last couple of years is one of the reasons why people have been getting delayed. So is this really just a bit of a public trust re-building exercise, the start of a new campaign to keep their union in the public eye in case the current pay & TOCs despite comes to an end, or a political swipe at the government? I mean it could also just be me being cynical after a couple of years seeing some of the worst service levels in a long time for my regular journeys, but if this is the case then I am in good company as many other punters feel pretty much as fed up with the rail industry as I do.

Whatever the reason, as I say the timing seems odd. At a time when the railways could do with less revenue loss, highlighting that the public could eat a little more into that seems, well odd. This is not to say people shouldn't claim DR, before anyone gets angry, I just think the union should maybe be concentrating on helping their members deliver a better service before next year's round of pay claims / disputes, that's far more likely to gain traction in public support than this.

Just from reading the report (https://assets.publishing.service.g...-delays-and-compensation-2023-full-report.pdf):

- the survey is planned to be done every two years, at the same time of year, since the major extension of Delay Repay in 2017, except that the 2022 one was delayed because of Covid (so the surveys have been 2018, 2020 and 2023)

- passengers whose train was removed from the timetable due to industrial action are entitled to refunds, rather than Delay Repay, and passengers affected in that way were excluded from the sample - though it seems inevitable that passengers who didn't know they were affected by industrial action, or who were indirectly affected, will still be in the results. Since the object of the survey is to find out how many people eligible for Delay Repay don't claim it, and why not, I don't think that's a major problem.

So the timing and scope of the DfT/TF survey seem entirely routine and reasonable; I'm not going to comment on RMT's reaction to it.

 

[Haywain]

Does Network Rail not pay out to the TOCs for infrastructure related issues then?

Yes, they do but it is a completely separate and unrelated regime to Delay Repay. And yes, TOCs do have to pay out for incidents that are not their fault.

If so then I'd be saying the opposite that the TOCs are having to pay for delay repays for incidents that weren't their fault

TOCs do have to pay out for incidents that are not their fault.

 

[northwichcat]

I never bother, as I have always found staff to be exceptionally helpful when caught in such a situation. I'm not even sure if I would claim even were that not the case as it is such a faff.

Do note that train operators get compensated if circumstances outside their control cause services to run late e.g. a signalling fault, or a broken down freight train blocking the line.

When I can see which way it's going I usually take a photo of my ticket before arriving. Easy to delete if not required, and the evidence is there if it is retained by a barrier.

I do the same. If I'm able to keep the ticket and need to make a claim, I often take another picture when I get home as it's often clearer than one taken while on a train, or in a waiting area.

 

[Edsmith]

Please delete if there's another thread about this...

Minority of affected passengers seeking delay repay compensation, union says

Fewer than half of eligible rail passengers who are entitled to compensation under the delay repay scheme are putting in a claim, a new report claims. Research by the Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT) suggested that only 47% of passengers are putting in claims with rail companies when...

nation.cymru

Caught this on the radio news briefs in the small hours of this morning. Was quite surprised that it's the RMT who have flagged this up (how would they know?), and wondered what their point was.

My theory is that the TOCs make it far too fiddly to claim, so a lot of people simply can't be bothered, which is all wrong. I always claim out of principle, and also because "every little helps", but it is a faff sometimes.

I think your theory is spot on, I've often not bothered just for a small amount. Somebody suggested that there should be a way of giving your claim to a charity to pursue and obviously they get the payment.

Or how many people wish to claim but the gateline assistant forces them to put their tickets into the gates which gets captured even after explaining that you were delayed?

I was told (by Southeastern staff) that gateline staff cannot force you to do that if you need to keep the ticket for a claim or for some other reason. In my experience most gateline staff are fine about it but there's always the odd awkward one.

 

[Haywain]

Somebody suggested that there should be a way of giving your claim to a charity to pursue and obviously they get the payment.

A lot of TOCs offer the opportunity to have the claim paid to a charity, but a charity cannot make the claim as they have not travelled.

 

[Djgr]

The

A lot of TOCs offer the opportunity to have the claim paid to a charity, but a charity cannot make the claim as they have not travelled.

The TOCs should be required to pay any delay repay not claimed to charity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The TOCs should be required to pay any delay repay not claimed to charity.

It's impossible to know it was due unless it's claimed, because there's no absolute record of what the passenger did anywhere. Even e-ticket scans are ambiguous, as they could either identify a delay/missed connection (where DR is due) or a deliberate break of journey (where it isn't).

For Advances some TOCs do auto-DR on an assumption, I suppose, but for walk-ups it's impossible to automate.

 

[Gaelan]

For Advances some TOCs do auto-DR on an assumption, I suppose, but for walk-ups it's impossible to automate.

Even then at least LNER's is "one-click delay repay" where the customer's one click presumably serves as a confirmation that they were in fact delayed.

(Even on advances, I've managed come out ahead on TPE roulette with some quick thinking and an unofficial connection onto the earlier service! Although the one-click schemes might be limited to direct services, I'm not sure.)

 

[Haywain]

For Advances some TOCs do auto-DR on an assumption, I suppose, but for walk-ups it's impossible to automate.

Even then, buying an Advance isn't evidence of having travelled and being delayed.

 

[Foxhunter]

Do note that train operators get compensated if circumstances outside their control cause services to run late e.g. a signalling fault, or a broken down freight train blocking the line.

Which, presumably, nowadays gets mostly remitted to the Department for Transport / Treasury as revenue so that they can then fund Network Rail's delay compensation budget? Is so, then one has to wonder how much money is being spent to administer an utterly pointless activity.

The TOCs should be required to pay any delay repay not claimed to charity.

This is so RailUKforums. Every company I worked for would have put its effort into providing a service that ran to time, so avoiding the need to ever actually pay any Delay Repay. Providing ever more sophisticated/easy/elaborate ways of paying compensation seems, to me, to be missing the point.

 

[al78]

I always claim, works out at around £3-4 each time. No problem with the claiming process, log into Thameslink website and click on the submit claim link, then upload a photo of my tickets. I get paid within a couple of weeks. The only time I don't claim is if disruption enabled me to get an earlier train I wouldn't have otherwise managed to catch even if one leg of my journey was delayed.

 

[Djgr]

I've never claimed. I know it's irrational, but I can't shake off the idea that claiming Delay Repay is scrounging.

You're wrong. It's recompense for a service paid for not provided because of failure.

Would you be happy if the breakfast cereal packet you bought turned out to be quarter full?

It's impossible to know it was due unless it's claimed, because there's no absolute record of what the passenger did anywhere. Even e-ticket scans are ambiguous, as they could either identify a delay/missed connection (where DR is due) or a deliberate break of journey (where it isn't).

For Advances some TOCs do auto-DR on an assumption, I suppose, but for walk-ups it's impossible to automate.

So where does the 47% figure come from?