Letter from Chiltern Railways

[Eco]

Hi all,

I have recently received a letter from Chiltern Railways about being found travelling without a valid train ticket.

Full disclosure I short fared on three occasions which I am aware is wrong and am deeply regretful of.

I travelled between warwick and birmingham and only paid from solihull to birmingham.

I also bought a weekly pass from warwick to birmingham but starting on the wrong day (genuinely) which I then refunded.

In the letter I received they asked me to voluntarily attend an interview with a senior investigator to answer questions about my rail journeys and refunds submitted on the trainline app.

Has anyone heard about these interviews before?

I want to be honest and comply and think it is best to attend the interview but I am anxious about whether this is a good idea with out a solicitor.

I have attached the letter.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I am happy to give more details and answer questions.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Essentially you have a choice here.

1. Co-operate with Chiltern, reading the letter they have sent you they are willing to settle out of court. They believe there are several occasions where you have avoided paying the correct fare and if they do decide to settle out of court they will want these cases to be included in the settlement amount.

2. Don't co-operate. Chiltern would prosecute you in the Magistrates Court for the one cases of fare evasion they can prove (ie the one where you were caught). You would be founf guilty and have to pay a fine, surcharge, court costs and compensation for the fare avoided. You would also have a crininal record.

There is always a possibility that by attending a voluntary interview you could incrininate yourself and Chiltern could use this against you in court. Personally I think this is unlikely - their letter says they want to settle and we have seen similar cases on here in the past where they have settled. You could consider asking a solicitor to attend the interview with you, although this would clearly cost.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

You could consider asking a solicitor to attend the interview with you, although this would clearly cost.

If you do decide to go to an interview but not to take a solicitor with you, it’s a good idea to take a reliable friend or relation instead. They probably won’t be able to talk on your behalf (you will know the facts in a way that they won’t) but they can listen and take notes for you, and be someone for you to discuss how things went.

Also, work out exactly how many times you’ve fare dodged: even better, also try to work out every time you travelled and paid the right fare. I think that the railway will have done the same, and it’s good to be able to tell them what your figures are- and if they think you fare dodged on a day when you didn’t, put yourself in a position to argue back.

 

[Brissle Girl]

To avoid the stress and uncertainty of an interview I would respond stating that you have short fared and giving the dates, explain the situation re the weekly ticket, and say that to the best of your knowledge that’s it, but to let you know if any other cases that they are suspicious about.

Obviously be apologetic etc too and make it clear that you won’t do it again.

 

[SussexMan]

...and say that to the best of your knowledge that’s it....

I travel by train and know 100% that I have paid the correct fare. If the OP knows that they have also paid the correct fare, other than the three cases they have mentioned, then I would suggest that they clearly state that - and presumably their buying history will back that up from a short faring aspect. To say that they haven't "to the best of their knowledge" fare dodged at other times comes across as a strange way to phrase it.

They will also need to explain the circumstances of the refunded ticket.

 

[ikcdab]

To be honest, if you go to the interview, what's the worst that can happen? If what you have said is the only times you have short fared and if you are open and truthful the cost is not dramatic. An anytime single from Warwick to Birmingham is £8.90. A weekly season is £47. So probably less than £100 for the fares and then £150 to £200 for their admin fee, the out of court settlement is likely to be around £300.
For that you get complete closure and no further action. The alternative of going to court or engaging a solicitor is likely you cost far more and a criminal conviction.
This all on the assumption that its only those few cases where you have evaded fares.
If you do go to the interview and you suddenly get loads of additional instances presented, then you can always say nothing and adjourn things.
I think approach of @Brissle Girl is good because you can consider what you say rather than speaking "off the cuff". And I don't think they will pay you expenses for the trip to see them!

 

[Eco]

Thank you all for your responses!

I have decided to contact a solicitor who specializes in this type of case. They are called Samir and work for Manak Solicitors if anyone is interested. They seem confident that chiltern will want to settle out of court and will help to communicate with them.

This will cost me more money obviously but I was keen to play it safe and get professional help rather than going it alone.

I have a consultation with the solicitor tomorrow so hopefully all will go well.

 

[30907]

Just to clarify Re the weekly pass: if you did not use it, you should make that clear to them (via your solicitor, as you are engaging one).

 

[Haywain]

I have a consultation with the solicitor tomorrow so hopefully all will go well.

I would have advised against this on costs grounds but if you choose to go with the solicitor you should do everything through them and make them earn the hefty amount of money they will be charging you. However, once the mater is completed it would be good if you could post back here and let us know the outcome as that helps us to advise others in future.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I would have advised against this on costs grounds but if you choose to go with the solicitor you should do everything through them and make them earn the hefty amount of money they will be charging you. However, once the mater is completed it would be good if you could post back here and let us know the outcome as that helps us to advise others in future.

I agree, though I recognise that the legal process is unfamiliar and frightening for many people. It can be worth paying for professional help if that's how they feel. Also, it can be better to rely on a tangible person than an anonymous internet forum.

As @Haywain says, please do share with us the outcome and the costs.

 

[Eco]

The prosecutor had responded to my solicitor reaching out and is claiming that I made other journeys with an invalid ticket and made fraudulent refunds.

All the refunds I made I did so because I was no longer travelling. I’m not sure why they have flagged these up.

The other journeys are back in 2020 and they are wanting proof of the 16-17 railcard I had at the time.

I have proof of the railcard being purchased from a bank statement but apparently this is not good enough evidence.

For some reason I have no email confirmations and after phoning national rail and trainline they just say the railcard disappears from my account once it is expired.

Does anyone know anything about how I might find proof of this railcard? It was purchased back in August 2019.

These other journeys were genuine journeys with valid railcards etc and the refunds made legitimately. The prosecutor is requesting over £400 from me when the actual journeys I evaded the fares comes to just under £30.

Really not sure what to do.

 

[Brissle Girl]

I would just reiterate previous advice that now you are paying for a solicitor you should be asking them for advice - that is what you are paying them for, especially if things get more difficult in terms of negotiation.

 

[AndroidBango]

Without wishing to be flippant: what does your solicitor say you should do? Do exactly that.

 

[Watershed]

@Eco, please do not edit your posts to delete their content. Posters here have taken time and effort to assist you and it is only reasonable that proper context is provided so that anyone reading the thread can understand what has happened.

If you do not want any further advice and would like this thread to be temporarily hidden until the matter is resolved, please report any post and the moderators will look into this.

 

[island]

These other journeys were genuine journeys with valid railcards etc and the refunds made legitimately. The prosecutor is requesting over £400 from me when the actual journeys I evaded the fares comes to just under £30.

If journeys made are found to be without the proper ticket, you will generally be expected to pay the full undiscounted anytime single fare for those journeys as part of settlement.

Really not sure what to do.

Do whatever your solicitor says you ought to do.

 

[Sultan]

Regarding your 2020 tickets, I would argue that it is for them to prove you didn't have a railcard rather than the other way round. Who keeps their old railcard anyway? - it would be so easy to accidentally use it after it expires! Maybe last years, but not 3-4 years ago and especially 16-17 one.

This is perhaps turning the tables on them as to whether there should be a central database (accessible by any Revenue Protection Officer) of railcards. But that may not work in their favour if someone with a valid card is unable to produce it for whatever reason when asked - they still get a penalty fare (that they have to appeal) despite no intention of travelling for less than the required amount.

But unless you are going to not use your solicitor going forward, it is better you get all advice from them rather than us, who won't be in the detail of your case as much.

Good luck

 

[Haywain]

Regarding your 2020 tickets, I would argue that it is for them to prove you didn't have a railcard rather than the other way round.

And I will just point out that the OP isn't the one holding all the cards, but is the one wanting to keep one provable case out of court.

 

[Sultan]

And I will just point out that the OP isn't the one holding all the cards, but is the one wanting to keep one provable case out of court.

Is that literally? As in they aren't holding a 16-17 railcard anymore (because they've binned it)?

 

[Haywain]

Is that literally? As in they aren't holding a 16-17 railcard anymore (because they've binned it)?

No, metaphorically.

 

[spotify95]

And I will just point out that the OP isn't the one holding all the cards, but is the one wanting to keep one provable case out of court.

But asking for proof of a railcard that was purchased prior to the pandemic is a bit unreasonable. Maybe the prior one, but not one from several years ago.
Back when I held a 16-25 railcard, I kept the current one, and possibly the prior one, but none before that, as it didn't make sense to as it wouldn't be relevant.

I'd personally ask (or get the solicitors to ask) what is acceptable proof of purchasing that railcard, and ensure that Chiltern do not try and charge the OP for journeys which they had the correct railcard for. The same regarding the refunded journeys if they knew, and can prove that, they didn't use the train on that day.

Good luck, and I'd be interested to hear the outcome of all this.