Letter received for fare evasion

[babayaga]

My situation is similar to :

been 3 weeks, when will I hear back from penalty fine?

hello, I won't lie about dodging fares, I did it to save money and realised it was stupid and wrong and no longer do it anymore. I was stopped by a ticket inspector three weeks ago now for travelling beyond the destination of my ticket. The inspector asked if I'd done this before and I was fully...

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Waiting for a settlement from fare dodging

Hi everyone. My situation is similar to this https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/been-3-weeks-when-will-i-hear-back-from-penalty-fine.230193/#post-5609264 Firstly I want to say I have learnt my lesson. I was in bits this morning and really won’t do it again. Part fare dodging is just not worth...

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I was caught travelling with a Railcard when I did not have one. I was travelling with someone else, and had booked the tickets for this person as well. I said that choosing the fare reduction was an honest mistake, and that I accepted the consequences. I therefore was asked to pay a 75 pounds fee for the person (which I did), but don't recall being asked to pay myself (this person was not a UK resident while I am). I have received a letter stating the offence and that they have found I have avoided the correct fare on other occasions (which is true – I had avoided it once a month before). I have also received a form to write down when I avoided fares prior to this occasion. I'll quote the letter:

"...has revealed you may have avoided your correct rail fare on other occasions...

The purpose of this letter is to advise you of the report, and of any action that may follow from it, and to provide you with the opportunity to inform us of any mitigation that you may wish to be considered. This can be sent to the address shown above. We will also accept a scanned copy of a letter through our email address. Please also complete and return the enclosed form.

The report of this incident indicates that in the absence of a satisfactory explanation, evidence does exist to warrant a prosecution in accordance with current legislation. These considerations may include whether any charge should allege an offence against Railway Byelaws (2005), or the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

If we do not receive any representation from you within 21 days of the date of this letter, further action will be taken."

I do not want a criminal record. I am a student from abroad and intend to work here so that would be disastrous. I have bought tickets correctly before, including railcards, and have bought tickets correctly after the incident as well.

My questions are:
- Should I admit I also used the railway discount on that previous occasion?
- How should I go about responding to the letter in order to try and settle it with the Railway company and not have it escalate to a criminal offence? – I understand I'll have to pay and accept it, but don't want it to go further than that.
- Will buying a railcard now and stating I have done so help alleviate the outcome?

 

[WesternLancer]

My questions are:
- Should I admit I also used the railway discount on that previous occasion, or could/should I say that I bought the ticket for someone else?
- How should I go about responding to the letter in order to try and settle it with the Railway company and not have it escalate to a criminal offence? – I understand I'll have to pay and accept it, but don't want it to go further than that.
- Will buying a railcard now and stating I have done so help alleviate the outcome?

Which train company have contacted you?

a) - Should I admit I also used the railway discount on that previous occasion, or could/should I say that I bought the ticket for someone else?

Not if that is a lie. There is too much risk of that lie unravelling and making things much worse - ie dramatically reducing the chances of the outcome you want - which is an offer to settle it out of court. In fact I would say they migth actually be more likely to settle if you are honest and clear about past errors.

b) - How should I go about responding to the letter in order to try and settle it with the Railway company and not have it escalate to a criminal offence?

See other threads with guidance on that - posts by Hadders often set down the tone to take and can be seen in many different recent threads - so have a look.

c) - Will buying a railcard now and stating I have done so help alleviate the outcome?

Yes, it will help you to show you have learned from your error and taken steps to prevent it happening again, important things to ask in the letter you need to write to them requesting that they consider settling out of court instead of taking you to court and prosecuting. So it is worth mentioning it in that context.

Finally - if you are an over seas student you need to go and seek advice from your university/college overseas student team and / or Student Union advice service - they will ahev resources to help you with this.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Can you upload a copy of all the documentation you've been sent, with personal details redacted, so that we are able to offer you the best advice.

Where was your journey from and to?
Which train company were you travelling with?
Were you stopped onboard or at a station?
WHen you paid the £75 for your companion was this onboard the train? To the ticket inspector?

 

[babayaga]

Welcome to the forum!

Can you upload a copy of all the documentation you've been sent, with personal details redacted, so that we are able to offer you the best advice.

Where was your journey from and to?
Which train company were you travelling with?
Were you stopped onboard or at a station?
WHen you paid the £75 for your companion was this onboard the train? To the ticket inspector?

Company is Chiltern.
I have received a letter from Transport Investigations Limited (this letter is where the quotes are from) informing me of what the situation is, as well as a sheet where to write in on which other occasions I might have committed the same mistake, and another document explaining the different railway legislations.
Was onboard the train when I was approached – it was inspectors as well as some sort of railway fraud security.
I paid onboard the train directly to the ticket inspector.

I am going to write a letter back tomorrow. In it I will apologise, briefly explain that it was an honest mistake and that I have used the service correctly many times before as well as after this incident, and accept any penalty in the form of payment, as well as asking them not to take the matter to court. Does that sound more or less right? Do I need to send it by post?

 

[Hadders]

Which railcard did you say you had?

You might want to mention the following when replying to the letter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before.

I have received a letter stating the offence and that they have found I have avoided the correct fare on other occasions (which is true – I had avoided it once a month before)

It is more seriousl if you have done this before. Be aware that Chiltern and Transport Investigations Limited will be able to search your online ticketing account and find out how many times you have purchased a ticket without a railcard.

I paid onboard the train directly to the ticket inspector.

Have you got any paperwork for this? If so we need to see a copy. I am assuming that your companion was charged a Panalty Fare that you paid on theor behalf but I would like definite confirmation of that. This is becuase if the Penalty Fare was issued to you then you have no case to answer.

I am going to write a letter back tomorrow. In it I will apologise, briefly explain that it was an honest mistake and that I have used the service correctly many times before

Be careful - it wasn't an honest mistake because you've done it before.

Do I need to send it by post?

The letter will tell you how to send it to them. Normally it is by post.

 

[AlterEgo]

It’s going to be very important to the company if you’ve done this before. They’ll audit your online accounts and find out and it looks like they have found evidence you have been repeatedly claiming a discount you had no entitlement to. If you’ve done it before then don’t lie and say it was an honest mistake.

Chiltern/TIL do settle sometimes but if you’re a habitual fare evader they do usually take you to court and seek a conviction under the law.

 

[babayaga]

It’s going to be very important to the company if you’ve done this before. They’ll audit your online accounts and find out and it looks like they have found evidence you have been repeatedly claiming a discount you had no entitlement to. If you’ve done it before then don’t lie and say it was an honest mistake.

Chiltern/TIL do settle sometimes but if you’re a habitual fare evader they do usually take you to court and seek a conviction under the law.

They already did audit my accounts, hence the letter giving me the opportunity to state when I did so. I did it on that time I was caught, as well as about a week before on one other journey. All the previous times I have used the service (which are many) I've done it correctly, and I have also taken the correct steps on journeys after the incident.

Which railcard did you say you had?

You might want to mention the following when replying to the letter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before.


It is more seriousl if you have done this before. Be aware that Chiltern and Transport Investigations Limited will be able to search your online ticketing account and find out how many times you have purchased a ticket without a railcard.


Have you got any paperwork for this? If so we need to see a copy. I am assuming that your companion was charged a Panalty Fare that you paid on theor behalf but I would like definite confirmation of that. This is becuase if the Penalty Fare was issued to you then you have no case to answer.


Be careful - it wasn't an honest mistake because you've done it before.


The letter will tell you how to send it to them. Normally it is by post.

The only other time I did this was about a week before this incident.

I do not have paperwork for that, but it was on behalf of my companion. Just paid contactless and it finished there. Should I state this in the letter as well to show I was completely willing to pay? Something along the lines of me having bought my companion's ticket so I made the mistake and therefore immediately paid the price for it when asked to by the inspectors.

 

[30907]

Could you please confirm the journey that you paid £75 for?

I presume they did not have a railcard?

 

[AlterEgo]

I do not have paperwork for that, but it was on behalf of my companion. Just paid contactless and it finished there. Should I state this in the letter as well to show I was completely willing to pay? Something along the lines of me having bought my companion's ticket so I made the mistake and therefore immediately paid the price for it when asked to by the inspectors.

That isn't your offence, it's your companion's and it wasn't your responsibility in the eyes of the law to pay anyway. I'd still mention it but be aware of the fact it doesn't really change anything in relation to your case.

Was it a Penalty Fare or were they sold a new ticket?

 

[island]

That isn't your offence, it's your companion's

This is (potentially) incorrect, see Section 22 of the Railway Byelaws.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is (potentially) incorrect, see Section 22 of the Railway Byelaws.

I don't think there is any allegation of intent on the part of the OP with this one though?

 

[babayaga]

Could you please confirm the journey that you paid £75 for?

I presume they did not have a railcard?

They did not have a railcard. Since the person was visiting and did not reside in the UK, I was told they had to pay that amount or the police would get involved and the person would basically be arrested.

That isn't your offence, it's your companion's and it wasn't your responsibility in the eyes of the law to pay anyway. I'd still mention it but be aware of the fact it doesn't really change anything in relation to your case.

Was it a Penalty Fare or were they sold a new ticket?

Don't recall what exactly it was. I was simply told that since the person was visiting and did not reside in the UK, they had to pay that amount or the police would get involved and the person would basically be arrested, so I did and that was the end of that discussion. As for my part, I don't recall being asked to pay anything. My details were taken and I was told a letter would arrive home.

 

[island]

I don't think there is any allegation of intent on the part of the OP with this one though?

hence why only potential.

 

[30907]

They did not have a railcard.

And your journey was from where to where? £75 is similar to the full Chiltern fare from Birmingham to Marylebone but not quite. We're the then issued with a ticket or other receipt?

 

[babayaga]

And your journey was from where to where? £75 is similar to the full Chiltern fare from Birmingham to Marylebone but not quite. We're the then issued with a ticket or other receipt?

It was basically that journey. No, no receipt.

 

[AlterEgo]

It was basically that journey. No, no receipt.

But was there a ticket issued?

 

[babayaga]

But was there a ticket issued?

To be honest I don't remember at all. I believe they gave me something when I paid, so it was probably a new ticket. This is a bad picture of what I got for that payment.

Anyways, that was just for my companion. I didn't get asked to pay anything and was just told a letter would arrive home.

 

[island]

can you retake a proper photo of that document please?

 

[babayaga]

can you retake a proper photo of that document please?

Cannot, it's a picture from that day. Can't get it any better than that. Why is it so important?

 

[30907]

Cannot, it's a picture from that day. Can't get it any better than that. Why is it so important?

Because it isn't clear what it was, apart from being issued from a portable machine. A ticket, a receipt (you've said you didn't get one), or a request to prove you/your friend had a railcard.

 

[Haywain]

Because it isn't clear what it was, apart from being issued from a portable machine. A ticket, a receipt (you've said you didn't get one), or a request to prove you/your friend had a railcard.

From the very limited amount we can see it doesn't look like a ticket.

 

[babayaga]

Because it isn't clear what it was, apart from being issued from a portable machine. A ticket, a receipt (you've said you didn't get one), or a request to prove you/your friend had a railcard.

But, at the end of the day, that has nothing to do with my part of the issue and the letter I received? We were both asked to show our railcards and said we didn't have a railcard. Then, since my companion was not a resident here, I was told to pay or the police would get involved. I paid, and the issue with my companion ended there. My turn came after that, and after providing my details and proof of residence, I was told I would receive a letter at home – it arrived a few days ago.

 

[Hadders]

The reason we'd like to see that paperwork is because we have discovered cases in the past where the train company has not followed their own rules. Understandably being caught and questioned by a revenue inspector on a train is quite a stressful experience and people are sometimes mistaken about exactly what happened. I'm not saying this is what has happened in your case but it would be good to be able to check it out.

It does seem a little bit strange to me that if you both had railcard discounted tickets but no railcard that one of you was charged a Penalty Fare (if that is what it was) but the other one had details taken for a potential prosecution.

 

[WesternLancer]

It does seem a little bit strange to me that if you both had railcard discounted tickets but no railcard that one of you was charged a Penalty Fare (if that is what it was) but the other one had details taken for a potential prosecution.

It is plausible though. The OP says friend was from overseas, so the inspector may take the view that the best course of action with them would be to issue Penalty Fare and get some money then and there as prosecuting someone who will have left the country is likely to get nowhere. Whereas the OP can be recommended for prosecution or settlement out of court (more money than a penalty fare for the railway) as they have a UK address to pursue - so it's a plausible course of action for the staff member to take. Just my personal take on it of course.

But, at the end of the day, that has nothing to do with my part of the issue and the letter I received? We were both asked to show our railcards and said we didn't have a railcard. Then, since my companion was not a resident here, I was told to pay or the police would get involved. I paid, and the issue with my companion ended there. My turn came after that, and after providing my details and proof of residence, I was told I would receive a letter at home – it arrived a few days ago.

It looks as though this issue happened with Chiltern Trains - so as you are dealing with the company they often appoint to handle these cases - Transport Investigations Ltd (TIL) - it is worth you being aware that they are harder to persuade to offer settlements - and other threads on here - look up some involving Chiltern trains) - often seem to require the passenger to go back 2 or even 3 times in writing to request an out of court settlement before they agree to that, if they are prepared to do so - so you may need to be prepared to do this and come back to the forum for advice during the process.

 

[babayaga]

The reason we'd like to see that paperwork is because we have discovered cases in the past where the train company has not followed their own rules. Understandably being caught and questioned by a revenue inspector on a train is quite a stressful experience and people are sometimes mistaken about exactly what happened. I'm not saying this is what has happened in your case but it would be good to be able to check it out.

It does seem a little bit strange to me that if you both had railcard discounted tickets but no railcard that one of you was charged a Penalty Fare (if that is what it was) but the other one had details taken for a potential prosecution.

It is plausible though. The OP says friend was from overseas, so the inspector may take the view that the best course of action with them would be to issue Penalty Fare and get some money then and there as prosecuting someone who will have left the country is likely to get nowhere. Whereas the OP can be recommended for prosecution or settlement out of court (more money than a penalty fare for the railway) as they have a UK address to pursue - so it's a plausible course of action for the staff member to take. Just my personal take on it of course.


It looks as though this issue happened with Chiltern Trains - so as you are dealing with the company they often appoint to handle these cases - Transport Investigations Ltd (TIL) - it is worth you being aware that they are harder to persuade to offer settlements - and other threads on here - look up some involving Chiltern trains) - often seem to require the passenger to go back 2 or even 3 times in writing to request an out of court settlement before they agree to that, if they are prepared to do so - so you may need to be prepared to do this and come back to the forum for advice during the process.

I have drafted this letter to respond to them:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to respond to your letter.

On the 6th November 2022 I was approached by inspectors on my journey from London to Leamington Spa as I had selected a Railcard discount for my fare when I didn’t have an active Railcard. I normally renew my Railcard at the start of each academic year, but had not done so yet this year yet after spending a year abroad. I still chose the discount despite not having renewed my subscription yet, so it was completely my fault. I understood my mistake, and accepted the consequences, so much so that I paid my companion’s penalty (77,70£) as I had bought their tickets incorrectly as well. This shows I was completely open to collaborate and pay the fine. As for my case, I don’t recall being asked to pay and instead was told a letter would arrive home, but I would have paid if that had been the case.

After receiving your letter about any more possible journeys where I might have done the same thing, I checked my travel history and identified one more journey (to and from) on October 31st/January 1st where the same mistake applies. It is written in the separate letter you have provided for me to fill in. Besides that, I have always purchased tickets and Railcards and used your services correctly both before and after the incident.


I deeply apologise for my mistake, and can assure you nothing like this will ever happen again. I understand how much money the railway companies lose due to fare evasion and that it is unacceptable to commit fare evasion. I have taken the necessary steps for this never to occur again — not only did I purchase train tickets correctly for another trip after this incident, but I have now renewed my Railcard as well.

As a final year student, I understand the serious repercussions my mistake can have on my future career. I am therefore kindly asking you if we can proceed with an administrative settlement without the need for court action. I have learnt from my mistake and am keen to settle this matter by paying any outstanding fees owed and compensating Chiltern for the time and administrative costs incurred by investigating the issue.

Again, I am deeply sorry for my mistake.

I hope you can look favourably on this request, and I look forward to your response.

Is it ok?

 

[WesternLancer]

I have drafted this letter to respond to them:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to respond to your letter.

On the 6th November 2022 I was approached by inspectors on my journey from London to Leamington Spa as I had selected a Railcard discount for my fare when I didn’t have an active Railcard. I normally renew my Railcard at the start of each academic year, but had not done so yet this year yet after spending a year abroad. I still chose the discount despite not having renewed my subscription yet, so it was completely my fault. I understood my mistake, and accepted the consequences, so much so that I paid my companion’s penalty (77,70£) as I had bought their tickets incorrectly as well. This shows I was completely open to collaborate and pay the fine. As for my case, I don’t recall being asked to pay and instead was told a letter would arrive home, but I would have paid if that had been the case.

After receiving your letter about any more possible journeys where I might have done the same thing, I checked my travel history and identified one more journey (to and from) on October 31st/January 1st where the same mistake applies. It is written in the separate letter you have provided for me to fill in. Besides that, I have always purchased tickets and Railcards and used your services correctly both before and after the incident.


I deeply apologise for my mistake, and can assure you nothing like this will ever happen again. I understand how much money the railway companies lose due to fare evasion and that it is unacceptable to commit fare evasion. I have taken the necessary steps for this never to occur again — not only did I purchase train tickets correctly for another trip after this incident, but I have now renewed my Railcard as well.

As a final year student, I understand the serious repercussions my mistake can have on my future career. I am therefore kindly asking you if we can proceed with an administrative settlement without the need for court action. I have learnt from my mistake and am keen to settle this matter by paying any outstanding fees owed and compensating Chiltern for the time and administrative costs incurred by investigating the issue.

Again, I am deeply sorry for my mistake.

I hope you can look favourably on this request, and I look forward to your response.

Is it ok?

It's a bit of a technicality but because you don't have the paperwork relating to what you paid for your companion, and your image posted of it is not fully readable* - I'm not sure you or readers here know what you paid eg if it was a fine, a Penalty Fare or a brand new ticket - which mean that you maybe should amend the section in italics here:

"...so that I paid my companion’s penalty (77,70£) as I had bought their tickets incorrectly as well. This shows I was completely open to collaborate and pay the fine."

to say instead maybe replace the bit in italics with "....this shows that I was open to paying the sum asked of us to correct the situation."

EDIT
above struck through as I agree with point made in posts 27 and 28 that better to avoid discussion of this for the reasons given in those posts.


*I note that £77.70 is the Anytime Day Single (ie undiscounted full price fare) from Leamington Spa to Marylebone - so I suggest that what the ticket inspector on board asked of your companion was for them to buy a completely new ticket, which is what you paid for for them (if so, this is not a 'fine' or a penalty - they just deemed your tickets invalid due to no railcard and required the purchase of a new ticket that was actually valid). So I suspect if you get offered a settlement they will be looking for the same from you plus at least some sort of 'admin fee' of at least about £100. This will all be increased by similar sum for the the occasion(s) when they think you did this.

As stated above Chiltern/TIL may not offer this to you at the first time of requesting so you may need to be prepared to be persistent - ie write again with further apology etc.

 

[30907]

I am inclined to think you should leave out any reference to your companion. We have now, I think, established that they were asked to pay for a new ticket (which you paid), and that now settles the matter from their point of view.

Your problem is that you bought them a railcard-discounted ticket. As the only way to do that is to add a second railcard along with the second person, it might look as though that was deliberate rather than a "mistake."
If you only talk about yourself, you can reasonably state that you had been a railcard holder in the past and claim to have forgotten that you hadn't renewed it.
Hence my suggestion - which I hope is helpful, if not ignore it.

 

[AlterEgo]

I also agree with leaving the companion out. Their issue has been disposed of with a new ticket already.

 

[babayaga]

It's a bit of a technicality but because you don't have the paperwork relating to what you paid for your companion, and your image posted of it is not fully readable* - I'm not sure you or readers here know what you paid eg if it was a fine, a Penalty Fare or a brand new ticket - which mean that you maybe should amend the section in italics here:

"...so that I paid my companion’s penalty (77,70£) as I had bought their tickets incorrectly as well. This shows I was completely open to collaborate and pay the fine."

to say instead maybe replace the bit in italics with "....this shows that I was open to paying the sum asked of us to correct the situation."

EDIT
above struck through as I agree with point made in posts 27 and 28 that better to avoid discussion of this for the reasons given in those posts.


*I note that £77.70 is the Anytime Day Single (ie undiscounted full price fare) from Leamington Spa to Marylebone - so I suggest that what the ticket inspector on board asked of your companion was for them to buy a completely new ticket, which is what you paid for for them (if so, this is not a 'fine' or a penalty - they just deemed your tickets invalid due to no railcard and required the purchase of a new ticket that was actually valid). So I suspect if you get offered a settlement they will be looking for the same from you plus at least some sort of 'admin fee' of at least about £100. This will all be increased by similar sum for the the occasion(s) when they think you did this.

As stated above Chiltern/TIL may not offer this to you at the first time of requesting so you may need to be prepared to be persistent - ie write again with further apology etc.

I am inclined to think you should leave out any reference to your companion. We have now, I think, established that they were asked to pay for a new ticket (which you paid), and that now settles the matter from their point of view.

Your problem is that you bought them a railcard-discounted ticket. As the only way to do that is to add a second railcard along with the second person, it might look as though that was deliberate rather than a "mistake."
If you only talk about yourself, you can reasonably state that you had been a railcard holder in the past and claim to have forgotten that you hadn't renewed it.
Hence my suggestion - which I hope is helpful, if not ignore it.

I also agree with leaving the companion out. Their issue has been disposed of with a new ticket already.

So, should I just leave it out, or instead say that I paid for a colleague's new ticket as he/she didn't have enough money (which was also the case), showing that I was open to correct the situation?

 

[AlterEgo]

So, should I just leave it out, or instead say that I paid for a colleague's new ticket as he/she didn't have enough money (which was also the case), showing that I was open to correct the situation?

If the letter doesn't mention your friend, don't talk about it. It isn't in your interests to do so.