Lewes Bonfire 04/11/2017

[Antman]

Really? Southern don’t even employ RPIs anymore...

It all just seems a bit excessive. I understand them closing Lewes but was it really necessary to close all the stations I bet it cause chaos for the regular commuters who are commuting to Brighton the main employment hub on the Sussex Coast. All sounds a bit NIMBY on the part of the local council either that or the police can’t be bothered to police and crowd control properly... Did they shut all the roads leading to Lewes or just the railway

Yes roads are closed as well, not ideal but it's difficult to see what else could be done.

 

[Class 170101]

Surely the organisers could have drafted in local tv provider Latest TV to cover the event (and network it to others such as Made, Estury and Notts TV to show it in their areas so that thoses planning on going to see it can see it in their own home. They could even get Southern to sponsor the event) and no that is not a wind up either.

For those sceptical about TV coverage of fireworks what does the BBC do every year on New Years Eve into New Years Day - oh they show fireworks going off in London from the River Thames so why not put it on TV in the region?

On a more serious note why is Lewes firework display so popular? whats special about this one compared to any other display in the county? There must be other displays going on around the surrounding area why does this one draw such large crowds?

 

[dctraindriver]

For those sceptical about TV coverage of fireworks what does the BBC do every year on New Years Eve into New Years Day - oh they show fireworks going off in London from the River Thames so why not put it on TV in the region?

On a more serious note why is Lewes firework display so popular? whats special about this one compared to any other display in the county? There must be other displays going on around the surrounding area why does this one draw such large crowds?

Yep they also show firework displays welcoming the new year all over the world, however it’s not really the thing to watch a bonfire display on local tele......... Think about it.

 

[6Gman]

For those sceptical about TV coverage of fireworks what does the BBC do every year on New Years Eve into New Years Day - oh they show fireworks going off in London from the River Thames so why not put it on TV in the region?

On a more serious note why is Lewes firework display so popular? whats special about this one compared to any other display in the county? There must be other displays going on around the surrounding area why does this one draw such large crowds?

I think it is basically streets ahead of most firework displays, indeed I think "firework display" doesn't really cover it. If I understand it it's a carnival, street procession, bonfire and firework display rolled into one.

Bit like asking why does Manchester United v Chelsea draw 60,000 people when Caersws v Aberystwyth only draws 200? They're both football matches ...

 

[tsr]

It’s basically one of the rare cases of almost complete anarchy which is actually permitted by the authorities, and it just so happens to be at the same time as Guy Fawkes celebrations. The whole thing is largely comprised of rivalry between local societies, which results in a big explosive showdown, and is really aimed solely at local residents. Unfortunately for them (and the NHS...) a lot of non-local people try to visit because it’s fun to watch, and gets the adrenaline going.

The rival event for family-friendly stuff (ie. not throwing chunks of burning material at strangers...) is Brockham Bonfire in Surrey, which usually attracts 18-20,000 people just in the Village Green and is much safer (with infinitely better fireworks, in fact the largest annual UK display) and there are also other big ones in a lot of villages in Surrey and Sussex - I’ve attended several over the years. They don’t tend to crop up on here as they don’t impact railways, but they do have extremely major road impacts, to the point that if you live in the Weald, you may as well add half an hour to any journey time during the evenings of the applicable weekend.

There are also the Battersea Fireworks, which do affect trains, but there are several stations in the vicinity which help spread the load, with lots of extra staff, and many more trains than the Lewes area routes. Even so, part of Battersea Park station can’t cope, so it is partly closed for the event - with passengers redirected to Clapham Junction and Queenstown Road.

(All this sounds like I don’t like fireworks and bonfires - I do - but I understand local sensitivities!)

 

[Antman]

Yep they also show firework displays welcoming the new year all over the world, however it’s not really the thing to watch a bonfire display on local tele......... Think about it.

Lewes is a bit more than just a firework display.

 

[dctraindriver]

Lewes is a bit more than just a firework display.

Well at least they didn't 'black up' this year......

You're right, its a large firework display............

 

[Bromley boy]

Well at least they didn't 'black up' this year......

You're right, its a large firework display............

That’s a bit harsh.

Agreed on the “blacking up” aspect - I’m glad they’ve abaondoned that - but the festival itself is a tradition that’s been carried on for hundreds of years.

 

[3141]

It’s basically one of the rare cases of almost complete anarchy which is actually permitted by the authorities, and it just so happens to be at the same time as Guy Fawkes celebrations.

I believe it's not very many years since they stopped throwing sacks containing live cats into Lewes bonfires.

 

[Bromley boy]

I believe it's not very many years since they stopped throwing sacks containing live cats into Lewes bonfires.

I believe you’ve just made that up.

 

[3141]

No. They did do that, I think well into the twentieth century, though I'm not sure when the practice ceased. My mother spent her childhood in Lewes 1912-1928, and I've read elsewhere about it being done. As tsr said, it's a case of almost complete anarchy. Before I made that post I looked on Google to see if I could find some mention of it, but the bonfire societies in Lewes don't mention the former practice on their websites, not surprisingly. There's no reason to suppose that the locals 100 years or more ago were particularly kind towards animals, nor that some people wouldn't do such a thing today, given half a chance..

 

[yorkie]

No. They did do that, I think well into the twentieth century, though I'm not sure when the practice ceased. ..

You said it was "not very many years" ago; can you provide a source? This source says "in the 17th century"

 

[3141]

I haven't so far found a source referring specifically to Lewes. The reference you gave makes a more general reference that "In the 17th century, effigies of Guy Fawkes were filled with live cats in order to make them scream when burned". My understanding is that the practice continued in Lewes till much later. It probably became more a vandalistic type of thing than an official feature of the proceedings.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The rival event for family-friendly stuff (ie. not throwing chunks of burning material at strangers...) is Brockham Bonfire in Surrey, which usually attracts 18-20,000 people just in the Village Green and is much safer (with infinitely better fireworks, in fact the largest annual UK display)

Interesting that you mention that one - I was there this weekend (and last year) and it was excellent. It appears buses were being laid on as well as car travel. An excellent event - though I must admit the H&S is refreshingly 1970s at times!

 

[tsr]

Interesting that you mention that one - I was there this weekend (and last year) and it was excellent. It appears buses were being laid on as well as car travel. An excellent event - though I must admit the H&S is refreshingly 1970s at times!

It's basically a turn-up-and-go bus service, and has been for a number of years - operated by Excetera and others as an express version of route 32, a pre-existing local route, using high-capacity buses such as double-deckers and 3+2 seated coaches. Much better than getting your car stuck in a muddy field!

As for the event, given my local connections, I would probably be deemed an outcast if I didn't mention it at least once a year on a big internet forum...

 

[Joe Paxton]

There are also the Battersea Fireworks, which do affect trains, but there are several stations in the vicinity which help spread the load, with lots of extra staff, and many more trains than the Lewes area routes. [...]

Another big one in London is the Blackheath Fireworks display, which remains free, non-ticketed and is very popular - and also affects the trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's basically a turn-up-and-go bus service, and has been for a number of years - operated by Excetera and others as an express version of route 32, a pre-existing local route, using high-capacity buses such as double-deckers and 3+2 seated coaches.

Interesting, as the buses I saw all said "Brockham Bonfire - ticket holders only" on the front (with a nice little fire icon where the number goes). Yet the website doesn't seem to show where to pre-purchase. I guess they must have "conductors" selling at the kerbside like the Oxford Tube etc.

 

[tsr]

Interesting, as the buses I saw all said "Brockham Bonfire - ticket holders only" on the front (with a nice little fire icon where the number goes). Yet the website doesn't seem to show where to pre-purchase. I guess they must have "conductors" selling at the kerbside like the Oxford Tube etc.

Correct on all points. Tickets can't be sold onboard as there would be too many people. Pre-purchase is at the kerbside, and payment is by cash only to the stewards (who work in groups). In previous years the website has been much more informative, but they have refreshed the graphics for this year (and very good they look, too) but without including all the old information - some of this was posted on the Facebook group in the few days beforehand. The route number is 32X but some buses don't show it.

 

[Antman]

I believe it's not very many years since they stopped throwing sacks containing live cats into Lewes bonfires.

First I've heard of that.

 

[Bishopstone]

We'll overlook the persecution of Roman Catholics, so long as the cats are okay.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Are you for real? Local TV? LMAO

I can't imagine the BBC or ITV covering it, so why not use a resource that will be able to cover it as it (Made In Bristol covered the Balloon Fiesta one year and that was networked). Southern could sponsor it so that you don't end up with hoards of of people decending onto a small market town and jamming everything up. I think the rail staff at Lewes will be relived at not having to shawshank everyone out of the station safely.

This is a brilliant idea with huge potential. All those football matches that take place every Saturday, with large numbers of people travelling up and down the country by train or by road, could be shown on TV and then everyone could watch them in the comfort of their home, with a six-pack and takeaway pizza beside their chair. There'd be a huge reduction in police overtime. The same approach could be extended to things like political demonstrations too: that pro-Palestine demo I saw in Parliament Square yesterday afternoon, with large numbers of police present and in reserve, and which delayed bus services through the area, could all have been followed on TV, and the pro-Israel counter-demonstrators who held up the march towards Parliament Square could have registered their views by switching off.

This would solve so many problems, and once it's all in place and Saturday afternoons have become peaceful and relaxed we can all feel proud that "You saw it on RailUKforums first!"

Bingo!

 

[Chris M]

There are also the Battersea Fireworks, which do affect trains, but there are several stations in the vicinity which help spread the load, with lots of extra staff, and many more trains than the Lewes area routes. Even so, part of Battersea Park station can’t cope, so it is partly closed for the event - with passengers redirected to Clapham Junction and Queenstown Road.

Another big one in London is the Blackheath Fireworks display, which remains free, non-ticketed and is very popular - and also affects the trains.

Indeed, I've been to the Blackheath fireworks for the last couple of years. Last year I arrived by train and the station was full to capacity, we were ushered out of all possible exits to clear the platform as quickly as possible, with lots of railway staff and police (I forget whether they were Met or BTP) doing crowd control.
I didn't arrive by train this year, but while Greenwich station on the way home was quiet the city-bound DLR train was full and standing and Cutty Sark was a lot busier than normal and I suspect I was slightly ahead of the bulk of the exodus.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's interesting that Brockham, despite the attendance being up there with a stadium gig or football match, seems to manage with quite low-key policing and no rent-a-thug security whatsoever (the marshals are volunteers and have a much more enlightened attitude than that) - even though alcohol is liberally served and carried in. I hope it stays that way, it really does give it a nice feel, not dissimilar to small gig venues that don't have bouncers. (I always think if a small venue or a pub needs bouncers, that means it has a problem that makes me not want to drink there).

 

[Crossover]

Oh dear.

You say it is "easy". How much experience do you have in this area? I don't claim to be an expert on event management, but I would not have thought it would be "easy" at all!

How do you "force" people onto a train without the risk of committing an assault?

What if a local resident does not have proof of residency? Who carries such proof with them on their daily business anyway?

This is bizarre and unworkable.

I read this as the poster saying they WERE joking!

 

[infobleep]

Bookham is definitely very good and being close to Dorking means you can walk there from Dorking Deepdene or Dorking Main.

Never fully understood why they hold bonfires. I can understand fireworks as that is the gun powder going boom but Guy Flaws and his conspirators were a hanged, drawn and quartered. Shouldn't they be reacting that, even if it means changing the make up of the stuffed guy to make it fit what they did?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Bookham is definitely very good and being close to Dorking means you can walk there from Dorking Deepdene or Dorking Main.

Do you mean Betchworth? Bookham is about a two hour walk from Dorking.

...Guy Flaws and his conspirators...

Autocorrect?

 

[cjp]

A small plug for the Somerset Carnivals which are still going on even though the 5th has now passed.

http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/somerset-carnivals-2017-countys-greatest-505454

Somerset Carnivals are the highlight of the year around here, and one of the most exciting displays of amateur entertainment anywhere in the world.

There are various organised Somerset carnivals every year, some with over a hundred brilliantly lit and decorated carts, and walking entries and exotically dressed performers from the local carnival clubs.

The processions of illuminated floats are part of an ancient tradition, which stretches back as far as the 1600's when many parts of Somerset commemorated the Gunpowder plot. Grand firework displays and street entertainment adds to the sense of fiesta and fun....

Not so much fireworks more of a two hour parade of illuminated floats.
I have been a couple of times now but I have yet to work out good timing for trains down and back from London and have always driven squeaking in before the roads are closed for the evening

 

[Chrisgr31]

A small plug for the Somerset Carnivals which are still going on even though the 5th has now passed.

http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/somerset-carnivals-2017-countys-greatest-505454

Not so much fireworks more of a two hour parade of illuminated floats.
I have been a couple of times now but I have yet to work out good timing for trains down and back from London and have always driven squeaking in before the roads are closed for the evening

Yes the Somerset carnivals are fantastic and well worth a visit, although season nearly over.