Lewisham station potential improvement proposed

[ScotGG]

I've just seen this which suggests some modest changes to Lewisham station.

Is it enough? Doesn't look it to me with all the towers going up around it.

Lewisham station may see changes according to Southeastern - Murky Depths

Lewisham station may see some changes according to Southeastern given mass development of homes, shops and employment

www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk

 

[PGAT]

I'm surprised the crossovers aren't even mentioned in the article.

 

[ScotGG]

Funny thing is didn't Southeastern cut services using the crossovers as soon as Network Rail spent millions upgrading them?

That meant more people would be changing at Lewisham, though I know the plan is people would do it at London Bridge. For me, I often change at Lewisham instead to avoid the longer concourse walks at London Bridge and long escalators which seems to me to be slower and worse as an interchange. Probably not what those in charge want and certainly not great if many more people will be using the station soon when those skyscrapers are full up. Maybe I will go back to London Bridge. See how it goes.

 

[PGAT]

Funny thing is didn't Southeastern cut services using the crossovers as soon as Network Rail spent millions upgrading them?

That meant more people would be changing at Lewisham, though I know the plan is people would do it at London Bridge. For me, I often change at Lewisham instead to avoid the longer concourse walks at London Bridge and long escalators which seems to me to be slower and worse as an interchange. Probably not what those in charge want and certainly not great if many more people will be using the station soon when those skyscrapers are full up. Maybe I will go back to London Bridge. See how it goes.

Wasn't there massive overcrowding reports at London Bridge when the new timetable came out?

 

[ScotGG]

More forced to change as services rationalized and so two options are London Bridge and Lewisham. I go for Lewisham. I guess most go for London Bridge? Though even if 20 per cent go for Lewisham that will cause issues given the changes around the station.

 

[PGAT]

More forced to change as services rationalized and so two options are London Bridge and Lewisham. I go for Lewisham. I guess most go for London Bridge? Though even if 20 per cent go for Lewisham that will cause issues given the changes around the station.

Yeah I think the station is relatively small for its usage and the platforms are quite narrow there

 

[30907]

I'm surprised the crossovers aren't even mentioned in the article.

Perhaps because they've already been renewed?

 

[PGAT]

Perhaps because they've already been renewed?

They’re still problematic

 

[Islineclear3_1]

They’re still problematic

In what way?

 

[PGAT]

In what way?

It goes against the interests of everyone. Southeastern/DfT want more resilient services that don’t conflict with each other, and the passengers (eg Bexleyheath and Woolwich line passengers) want direct Charing Cross services

 

[cle]

If the Bakerloo line comes, it will need a serious bit of work. The bottleneck at the London-end of trains will get pretty hairy. And organic usage (through mass development) has made it busier than ever.

 

[NorthKent1989]

It goes against the interests of everyone. Southeastern/DfT want more resilient services that don’t conflict with each other, and the passengers (eg Bexleyheath and Woolwich line passengers) want direct Charing Cross services

Then Southeastern/DfT have failed in delivering a “more resilient service” it’s been an absolute mess since the timetable change in December.

Don’t recall so many disruptions when Lewisham Junction was used more.

London Bridge is also a terrible interchange, especially for someone with bad knees like I have, with only one lift and one escalator it’s not inconceivable that one has to wait a fair few minutes before either can be used hassle free and crowd free.

 

[jhy44]

Lewisham station was awfully and unpleasantly overcrowded back in 2015 when I lived there and commuted daily, and that was pre any big towers.
I dread to think how bad it is now.

I always felt like they kind of f***ed it when they let all the bits of land around the station - which would have been needed for a substantial station rebuild - be developed, seriously tying their hands.

The population is only going to keep exploding in this corner of London as Zone 3 becomes more and more high rise; what Lewisham station needs is a Stratford-scale redevelopment. It is effectively the Clapham Junction / Stratford of South East London after all.

 

[Bald Rick]

Then Southeastern/DfT have failed in delivering a “more resilient service” it’s been an absolute mess since the timetable change in December.

Don’t recall so many disruptions when Lewisham Junction was used more.

And yet the official statistics show, unequivocally, a significant improvement in performance since the timetable change. Even with it being very difficult over Christmas due to the strikes and bad weather. southeatern had their lowest rate of cancellations in years in April and May (and were second best of all TOCs in the country in that period). This is not consistent with being “an absolute mess”.

London Bridge is also a terrible interchange, especially for someone with bad knees like I have, with only one lift and one escalator it’s not inconceivable that one has to wait a fair few minutes before either can be used hassle free and crowd free.

Respectfully, I disagree. it is a superb interchange, and far, far better than it was before the rebuild.

All but one of the southeastern platforms has two escalators each way; the one that doesn’t is solely for trains arriving from Cannon St. I have never, ever seen a queue for them. No doubt there can be a wait for the lifts at busy times, but that’s the same almost anywhere with lifts (try Heathrow Terminal 3!)

 

[Geogregor]

And yet the official statistics show, unequivocally, a significant improvement in performance since the timetable change. Even with it being very difficult over Christmas due to the strikes and bad weather. southeatern had their lowest rate of cancellations in years in April and May (and were second best of all TOCs in the country in that period). This is not consistent with being “an absolute mess”.




Respectfully, I disagree. it is a superb interchange, and far, far better than it was before the rebuild.

All but one of the southeastern platforms has two escalators each way; the one that doesn’t is solely for trains arriving from Cannon St. I have never, ever seen a queue for them. No doubt there can be a wait for the lifts at busy times, but that’s the same almost anywhere with lifts (try Heathrow Terminal 3!)

I largely agree.

My biggest problem with LBG is that the lifts are single point of failure on each platform. If they fail, even briefly, it can strand passengers upstairs. They should have provided two lifts for each platform.

 

[NorthKent1989]

And yet the official statistics show, unequivocally, a significant improvement in performance since the timetable change. Even with it being very difficult over Christmas due to the strikes and bad weather. southeatern had their lowest rate of cancellations in years in April and May (and were second best of all TOCs in the country in that period). This is not consistent with being “an absolute mess”.




Respectfully, I disagree. it is a superb interchange, and far, far better than it was before the rebuild.

All but one of the southeastern platforms has two escalators each way; the one that doesn’t is solely for trains arriving from Cannon St. I have never, ever seen a queue for them. No doubt there can be a wait for the lifts at busy times, but that’s the same almost anywhere with lifts (try Heathrow Terminal 3!)

There are still issues, and the fact that some stations in the metro area are only getting 2tph or have uneven gaps still isn’t a good enough service.

Passengers are abandoning SE because of the timetable in favour of the Elizabeth line and DLR both have increased their timetable, (the EL is basically armpit room in rush hour) stations on the Woolwich and Bexleyheath line are often lighter loaded than in past years.

The queues at London Bridge have reduced but they still happen to the point they have to crowd manage the station, again I don’t see this as being good.

 

[Bald Rick]

Passengers are abandoning SE because of the timetable in favour of the Elizabeth line and DLR both have increased their timetable, (the EL is basically armpit room in rush hour) stations on the Woolwich and Bexleyheath line are often lighter loaded than in past years.

Looking at it from another point of view, passengers swapping to the EL because it is better / easier / quicker for them, and thus it is the right decision to reduce the southeastern services…

 

[PGAT]

Looking at it from another point of view, passengers swapping to the EL because it is better / easier / quicker for them, and thus it is the right decision to reduce the southeastern services…

Only if you live at Abbey Wood or Woolwich. If you are from another station (eg Belvedere) and want to get the Elizabeth Line you are still reliant on SouthEastern but only for a smaller portion of the journey

 

[FOH]

The LBG positivity is stretching it a bit. Try the Southern platforms which only have a single escalator in one direction, and only 1 lift for 6 platforms

 

[NorthKent1989]

Looking at it from another point of view, passengers swapping to the EL because it is better / easier / quicker for them, and thus it is the right decision to reduce the southeastern services…

The EL opened last spring and was running concurrently with Southeastern’s previous timetable, SE trains were still loaded, especially the Charing Cross trains, the Cannon Street trains were always the lightly loaded trains.

Passengers have switched since December because SE decided to give up on running a decent service in the metro area.

The EL is only useful if you’re in Abbey Wood or Woolwich, Plumstead is in between both stops and still relies heavily on SE and there is no EL west of Woolwich, not to mention the Bexleyheath line customers abandoning SE, they’re too far away to get any real EL benefits.

The Elizabeth line was meant to be an additional service not a replacement, and with the growth in population from Lewisham & Deptford right down to Gravesend it was extremely short sighted

The LBG positivity is stretching it a bit. Try the Southern platforms which only have a single escalator in one direction, and only 1 lift for 6 platforms

LBG also now separates passengers between what destination they’re trying to reach, pretty sure this was never the intention during the rebuild of the station.

 

[PGAT]

LBG also now separates passengers between what destination they’re trying to reach, pretty sure this was never the intention during the rebuild of the station.

How is this done, especially with the ThamesLink platforms directly between the Cannon Street and Charing Cross platforms?

 

[NorthKent1989]

How is this done, especially with the ThamesLink platforms directly between the Cannon Street and Charing Cross platforms?

Until recently they had placard signposts, it was to reduce the sheer overcrowding at the concourse level.

I think they’ve stopped this now as it was impractical, as you said Thameslink is in the middle of CST platforms and CHX platforms.

 

[LLivery]

Looking at it from another point of view, passengers swapping to the EL because it is better / easier / quicker for them, and thus it is the right decision to reduce the southeastern services…

They've made Southeastern less attractive to use and more people have switched/stopped using trains than ever needed to. I even use Penge East less because of the reduction to half hourly. They've left SE London out to dry - we're the worst served part of London for transport and it's been made even worse. The government's/Southeastern's excuses and reasonings aren't washing.

The EL opened last spring and was running concurrently with Southeastern’s previous timetable, SE trains were still loaded, especially the Charing Cross trains, the Cannon Street trains were always the lightly loaded trains.

Passengers have switched since December because SE decided to give up on running a decent service in the metro area.

The EL is only useful if you’re in Abbey Wood or Woolwich, Plumstead is in between both stops and still relies heavily on SE and there is no EL west of Woolwich, not to mention the Bexleyheath line customers abandoning SE, they’re too far away to get any real EL benefits.

The Elizabeth line was meant to be an additional service not a replacement, and with the growth in population from Lewisham & Deptford right down to Gravesend it was extremely short sighted



LBG also now separates passengers between what destination they’re trying to reach, pretty sure this was never the intention during the rebuild of the station.

This.

Could you imagine if they had reduced Central Line services from Ealing Broadway because it suddenly got quicker Liz Line services? It's absolute nonsense.

 

[NorthKent1989]

They've made Southeastern less attractive to use and more people have switched/stopped using trains than ever needed to. I even use Penge East less because of the reduction to half hourly. They've left SE London out to dry - we're the worst served part of London for transport and it's been made even worse. The government's/Southeastern's excuses and reasonings aren't washing.



This.

Could you imagine if they had reduced Central Line services from Ealing Broadway because it suddenly got quicker Liz Line services? It's absolute nonsense.

In regards to Ealing, can you just see planners suggesting cutting either the Jubilee or Central line from Stratford to Bond Street just because of the Elizabeth line also serves there?

I absolutely agree it’s nonsense, SE/DfT have used the EL (and the DLR to some extent) as a magic bullet to their long standing problems and issues all of which date back to the mid 2000s, that’s basically two decades ago and there has been little improvement to the metro area in that time and now the EL is there there’ll be even less improvement, SE metro services are in managed decline at this point.

The Penge East line is pretty dire off peak, though I’m glad they got their Blackfriars peaks back, but the line needs to be 4tph again, even if 2tph terminates at Bromley South.

It does seem that SE London has to lose something in order to get something nice and new.

 

[Geogregor]

SE metro services are in managed decline at this point.

The Penge East line is pretty dire off peak, though I’m glad they got their Blackfriars peaks back, but the line needs to be 4tph again, even if 2tph terminates at Bromley South.

It does seem that SE London has to lose something in order to get something nice and new.

To be honest it is not only Southeastern which is in managed decline. Southern is not doing much better either.

Penge not only have reduced off peak frequency from Penge East station (2TPH on suburban line is just plain silly), we also lost Southern services from Penge West. So no longer link to East Croydon or LBG.

The whole rail provision in southeast London is a joke, and not a funny one.

 

[PGAT]

To be honest it is not only Southeastern which is in managed decline. Southern is not doing much better either.

Penge not only have reduced off peak frequency from Penge East station (2TPH on suburban line is just plain silly), we also lost Southern services from Penge West. So no longer link to East Croydon or LBG.

The whole rail provision in southeast London is a joke, and not a funny one.

Yeah but Penge West has good links on the Overground and it’s not too far by bus from Sydenham or Crystal Palace

 

[Taunton]

Back to the starting subject. We use Lewisham regularly, travelling Canary Wharf to Blackheath. It's a disorganised shambles, starting with the Oyster readers for the DLR having been sited in a silly place relative to the passenger flow, and a queue around the nearest one conceals it; they must get many non-tapouts per day. Then to the onward Blackheath train it's up, then down, then up again on the stairs. But now the wait for an onward Blackheath train always seemed so much longer, so we've pretty much given that up, go out of the station and catch a bus instead.

 

[Samzino]

What's funny is with all the service reductions, SE still runs 4 car Dartford to London Victoria trains ffs. Still always a nightmare to board at Lewisham. You'd have thought they'd have a few more rolling stock spare for an 8 or 10 set.

Totally off topic but Elephant and castle station although not as much used is also years over due for improvement. It looks like something from the steam age now compared to all the towers and soon more apartments.

The railway of recent has been pretty poor with planning on a whole thanks to the current Gov.

 

[NorthKent1989]

To be honest it is not only Southeastern which is in managed decline. Southern is not doing much better either.

Penge not only have reduced off peak frequency from Penge East station (2TPH on suburban line is just plain silly), we also lost Southern services from Penge West. So no longer link to East Croydon or LBG.

The whole rail provision in southeast London is a joke, and not a funny one.

I think they’ll eventually do away with all Southern services on the Sydenham line and make it an Overground only service.

No metro station in SE should be 2tph at this point, there is zero justification for it.

Totally off topic but Elephant and castle station although not as much used is also years over due for improvement. It looks like something from the steam age now compared to all the towers and soon more apartments.

Elephant & Castle should have been refurbished during the Thameslink upgrade in the 2010s, as the second core entry point station it pales in comparison to London Bridge.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I think they’ll eventually do away with all Southern services on the Sydenham line and make it an Overground only service.

No metro station in SE should be 2tph at this point, there is zero justification for it.



Elephant & Castle should have been refurbished during the Thameslink upgrade in the 2010s, as the second core entry point station it pales in comparison to London Bridge.

That first part is a load of nonsense, they defintley won't. Only reason that would happen would be if the railways budget was ever destroyed, but then you can bet that Overground services would also be getting cut.