List of preservation railway's expansion plans in future

[Brush 4]

So, the rly don't want to go to Pittville, but the cycle path can't go to the racecourse either and it stays semi-derelict. Lack of joined up thinking I fear

 

[swt class 450]

Extending the GWSR to Cheltenham Spa (National Rail station) looks like a fairly easy extension compared to some others. There is a footpath or cycle path along the entire length complete with bridges to go under and over the roads. There looks like enough room to keep the footpath or cycle path alongside a single track railway line if they don't want to get rid of it. The line can just go along edge of the park and stadium rather than going through the middle of it. There is enough room at Cheltenham Spa to build two platforms for the GWSR (although it might mean that the car park would have to be reduced a bit so there would be less parking spaces but there is other parking in the area). Certainly from looking on Google Satellite there doesn't appear to be many obstacles (especially compared to some other future extensions).

It would certainly be much more convenient for visitors who don't have a car to be able to simply change trains at Cheltenham Spa from National Rail to the GWSR trains rather than having to change for a bus to the outskirts at the racecourse.

Also if this extension happened then they could use the trains to provide shuttle services between Cheltenham Spa and Cheltenham Racecourse on race days. They would make a huge amount of money from that to support their operations. They could provide a much quicker service than the current shuttle buses which take a while and get stuck in traffic and their trains would have far more capacity than the current shuttle buses do. I think this is one of the reasons that would definitely make such an extension worth it.

Hopefully one day we could see them operating the full length from Cheltenham Spa to Honeybourne at some point. This area gets a large amount of tourism. The entire Cotswolds area is very well known for it's tourism so i imagine they could get a very large increase in visitors by extending it to Honeybourne as well.

The extension to Honeybourne is mainly just through fields and countryside so there are not really many obstacles there. There are no busy or residential areas to worry about. Purchasing the land would probably be a lot easier here as well. It seems that this would be a fairly easy extension to do as well.

With the right amount of money i believe that expending to both Cheltenham Spa and to Honeybourne is definitely possible. Obviously they have just completed their recent Broadway extension so they don't need to rush to do these new extensions but it would be good if they happened at some point in the near future. Perhaps within ten years from now it could be extended. I can certainly see it being a success if it extended.

On another note does anyone know why it is called the Gloucestershire & Warwickshire Steam Railway instead of the Gloucestershire & Worcestershire Steam Railway considering that it doesn't serve Warwickshire at all but does serve Worcestershire now? Any particular reason they chose this name?

 

[Cowley]

Extending the GWSR to Cheltenham Spa (National Rail station) looks like a fairly easy extension compared to some others. There is a footpath or cycle path along the entire length complete with bridges to go under and over the roads. There looks like enough room to keep the footpath or cycle path alongside a single track railway line if they don't want to get rid of it. The line can just go along edge of the park and stadium rather than going through the middle of it. There is enough room at Cheltenham Spa to build two platforms for the GWSR (although it might mean that the car park would have to be reduced a bit so there would be less parking spaces but there is other parking in the area). Certainly from looking on Google Satellite there doesn't appear to be many obstacles (especially compared to some other future extensions).

It would certainly be much more convenient for visitors who don't have a car to be able to simply change trains at Cheltenham Spa from National Rail to the GWSR trains rather than having to change for a bus to the outskirts at the racecourse.

Also if this extension happened then they could use the trains to provide shuttle services between Cheltenham Spa and Cheltenham Racecourse on race days. They would make a huge amount of money from that to support their operations. They could provide a much quicker service than the current shuttle buses which take a while and get stuck in traffic and their trains would have far more capacity than the current shuttle buses do. I think this is one of the reasons that would definitely make such an extension worth it.

Hopefully one day we could see them operating the full length from Cheltenham Spa to Honeybourne at some point. This area gets a large amount of tourism. The entire Cotswolds area is very well known for it's tourism so i imagine they could get a very large increase in visitors by extending it to Honeybourne as well.

The extension to Honeybourne is mainly just through fields and countryside so there are not really many obstacles there. There are no busy or residential areas to worry about. Purchasing the land would probably be a lot easier here as well. It seems that this would be a fairly easy extension to do as well.

With the right amount of money i believe that expending to both Cheltenham Spa and to Honeybourne is definitely possible. Obviously they have just completed their recent Broadway extension so they don't need to rush to do these new extensions but it would be good if they happened at some point in the near future. Perhaps within ten years from now it could be extended. I can certainly see it being a success if it extended.

On another note does anyone know why it is called the Gloucestershire & Warwickshire Steam Railway instead of the Gloucestershire & Worcestershire Steam Railway considering that it doesn't serve Warwickshire at all but does serve Worcestershire now? Any particular reason they chose this name?

User1234 - It sounds so easy when you put it like that, but in reality I think it would be a huge undertaking to reconstruct the railway to join the mainline at the Cheltenham Spa end.
Some parts of it look there for the taking, but other parts look way beyond the finances of a preserved railway unfortunately.
The only way I could ever see something like this happen is if Network Rail became involved (extremely unlikely).
I'm a naturally optimistic person, but even I can see that extending in the opposite direction towards Honeybourne bit by bit If (and I mean IF), that's what they decide to do in the future, is probably the best option if they decide it's worth the financial risk to reconnect to the network.

 

[cav1975]

Don't worry about contrary opinions, because that's all they are in the end, mostly from the IOW. .

Other opinions are available from the Isle of Wight, just they are not always expressed on this forum.

 

[bramling]

As a resident of Cheltenham, I have to say that a station of any size near the stadium would in no way be any better than the Racecourse. It's almost surrounded by housing these days, road access is far worse from any direction, the bus service is hourly IIRC, as opposed to every ten minutes in daytime at Racecourse...and all that for a gain of only a few hundred yards? Sorry, it's a no from me...

I can’t see any benefit in extending towards Cheltenham just to secure a physical mainline connection. I think there *would* be a benefit in reaching the mainline station in order to bring in visitors - but it does look a tough and expensive job to get there.

From a personal point of view even if they could get a bit further towards Cheltenham - even to a very basic halt with no major facilities or parking - it would make access easier as a couple of times I’ve taken the train to Cheltenham and then walked the long distance to the Racecourse station - but I realise this probably applies to only a very small proportion of visitors so perhaps wouldn’t be worthwhile.

 

[Cowley]

Other opinions are available from the Isle of Wight, just they are not always expressed on this forum.

Just a couple of things to add:

A person/group of people have a dream - be it now or in the 1950s/60s/70s/80s or whenever...
They manage to claw together the amount of money needed to buy or lease the particular item of rolling stock or 1 mile of disused branch line that they hold dear to their hearts.
Everyone says "you're living in a fantasy land!" But they carry on anyway because at the time they're completely unsullied by the negativity levelled at them on various (and I've been guilty of this too at times ) Internet forums...
A few years down the line they hit a junction between doing what to most of us is good business, or slackening off and just doing what they feel like doing...
Unfortunately most preserved (or tourist if you prefer) lines are blighted with sidings full of detritus that started off with good intentions but had no long term business plan to make the dream actually come true.
These vehicles are supposedly unscrappable due to their 'heritage' value, but make an otherwise idyllic scene embarrassing.

However.
There are countless items of preserved rolling stock and lines that we are All able to enjoy that purely owe their existence to professional and well organised groups that have made their dreams come to life (by sheer hard work and the ability to move with the times).

I see it like this:

Dream + Decent financial planning = rewards.
Dream + No plan whatsoever = mouldy aircon mk2 sitting in a grassy siding in the middle of nowhere rotting away slowly.

It's incredible what's been achieved so far, but we're at a crossroads:
Do we stay still? Is this the limit of nostalgia (i.e. have we reached peak nostalgia?)
Do we carry on with pushing forward? There must be a limit...
And bearing in mind that the generation that remembers working steam is disappearing rapidly (I'm sorry if reading this that that includes yourselves
You are much appreciated).

This isn't the EU debate. And I'm genuinely interested in everyone's opinion.
All of us hold these lines close to our hearts, so what do you all think?
This isn't Virgin or First.
This is nostalgia vs good 'heritage' (god I hate that word) business.
If it wasn't for a certain amount of dreaming we wouldn't have even ten percent of what we currently have preserved.


I remember the days when the HST group said they wanted to preserve a complete set! I mean really..!? *

Preservation is made up of dreams, otherwise there's no point in bothering.
Those that have a sturdy business plan are more liable to succeed (and I've personally chipped in with various financial support or physical work over the years) than those that are drifting...
We should encourage people's involvement though, even if they're amateurs...
An individuals nudge in the right direction can help move a project on. This is something that (slightly closed off) preserved railways could do with realising at times...


* And I'm so glad they did. It's absolutely brilliant!

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

Other opinions are available from the Isle of Wight, just they are not always expressed on this forum.

Just to emphasize that my thoughts are expressed purely personally. From just about the start of railway preservation, there have been aspirations for pleasure railways to provide some sort of "public transport" service and these have not succeeded. Of course there will be the occasional local user.

 

[reddragon]

Extending the GWSR to Cheltenham Spa (National Rail station) looks like a fairly easy extension compared to some others. There is a footpath or cycle path along the entire length complete with bridges to go under and over the roads. There looks like enough room to keep the footpath or cycle path alongside a single track railway line if they don't want to get rid of it. The line can just go along edge of the park and stadium rather than going through the middle of it. There is enough room at Cheltenham Spa to build two platforms for the GWSR (although it might mean that the car park would have to be reduced a bit so there would be less parking spaces but there is other parking in the area). Certainly from looking on Google Satellite there doesn't appear to be many obstacles (especially compared to some other future extensions).

It would certainly be much more convenient for visitors who don't have a car to be able to simply change trains at Cheltenham Spa from National Rail to the GWSR trains rather than having to change for a bus to the outskirts at the racecourse.

Also if this extension happened then they could use the trains to provide shuttle services between Cheltenham Spa and Cheltenham Racecourse on race days. They would make a huge amount of money from that to support their operations. They could provide a much quicker service than the current shuttle buses which take a while and get stuck in traffic and their trains would have far more capacity than the current shuttle buses do. I think this is one of the reasons that would definitely make such an extension worth it.

Hopefully one day we could see them operating the full length from Cheltenham Spa to Honeybourne at some point. This area gets a large amount of tourism. The entire Cotswolds area is very well known for it's tourism so i imagine they could get a very large increase in visitors by extending it to Honeybourne as well.

The extension to Honeybourne is mainly just through fields and countryside so there are not really many obstacles there. There are no busy or residential areas to worry about. Purchasing the land would probably be a lot easier here as well. It seems that this would be a fairly easy extension to do as well.

With the right amount of money i believe that expending to both Cheltenham Spa and to Honeybourne is definitely possible. Obviously they have just completed their recent Broadway extension so they don't need to rush to do these new extensions but it would be good if they happened at some point in the near future. Perhaps within ten years from now it could be extended. I can certainly see it being a success if it extended.

On another note does anyone know why it is called the Gloucestershire & Warwickshire Steam Railway instead of the Gloucestershire & Worcestershire Steam Railway considering that it doesn't serve Warwickshire at all but does serve Worcestershire now? Any particular reason they chose this name?

From an Engineering & land perspective it is actually a very simple job and the cycle route could be maintained.

The scale and cost of the work puts it into a national funded main contractor arena, not a Heritage railway type project. The level of maintenance and vandalism protection also makes it un-viable for a volunteer led organisation.

 

[reddragon]

Just to emphasize that my thoughts are expressed purely personally. From just about the start of railway preservation, there have been aspirations for pleasure railways to provide some sort of "public transport" service and these have not succeeded. Of course there will be the occasional local user.

Some of these aspirations have become reality on some lines, but most - no.

 

[Calthrop]

On another note does anyone know why it is called the Gloucestershire & Warwickshire Steam Railway instead of the Gloucestershire & Worcestershire Steam Railway considering that it doesn't serve Warwickshire at all but does serve Worcestershire now? Any particular reason they chose this name?

Am coming in here on a small point, peripheral to the overall debate; but I strongly suspect that the reason is as follows. (If I have matters rightly, the undertaking's title has recently become more elaborate; till recently, it called itself just the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway -- no "&", no "steam".) With the line's being part of a former Great Western route, and with the preserved material tending toward an overall Great Western character; some ingenuity -- IMO misplaced: I dislike such gimmickry -- was brought to bear, to contrive a title whose initials were GWR. "Gloucestershire Worcestershire Railway" would have done that job; and as per the above, had the potential to be more geographically accurate: but the two juxtaposed county names with their similar sounds, would have produced something which sounded jangling, "clunky", and a bit ridiculous. "Gloucester Warwickshire Railway" is cleaner and more euphonious; and the line's very-best-possible scenario (however unlikely) has been from the first, ultimately to link Cheltenham in Gloucestershire, with Stratford-on-Avon in Warwickshire.

 

[reddragon]

Am coming in here on a small point, peripheral to the overall debate; but I strongly suspect that the reason is as follows. (If I have matters rightly, the undertaking's title has recently become more elaborate; till recently, it called itself just the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway -- no "&", no "steam".) With the line's being part of a former Great Western route, and with the preserved material tending toward an overall Great Western character; some ingenuity -- IMO misplaced: I dislike such gimmickry -- was brought to bear, to contrive a title whose initials were GWR. "Gloucestershire Worcestershire Railway" would have done that job; and as per the above, had the potential to be more geographically accurate: but the two juxtaposed country names with their similar sounds, would have produced something which sounded jangling, "clunky", and a bit ridiculous. "Gloucester Warwickshire Railway" is cleaner and more euphonious; and the line's very-best-possible scenario (however unlikely) has been from the first, ultimately to link Cheltenham in Gloucestershire, with Stratford-on-Avon in Warwickshire.

The railway society as named attempted to buy the entire track bed from Cheltenham to Stratford and got an agreement to do so (hence the name) but certain county councils objected and blocked this from happening believing it would never succeed.

 

[vlad]

On another note does anyone know why it is called the Gloucestershire & Warwickshire Steam Railway instead of the Gloucestershire & Worcestershire Steam Railway considering that it doesn't serve Warwickshire at all but does serve Worcestershire now? Any particular reason they chose this name?

It's always been called that, or at least something containing the words Gloucestershire, Warwickshire and Railway. I remember when the line only ran from Toddington to Winchcombe - and you couldn't even get on or off at the latter - but that didn't stop them having aspirations towards Warwickshire!

It's a good one for the pub quiz, actually: "The Gloucestershire & Warwickshire Steam Railway serves stations in two English counties. Which?".

 

[Calthrop]

There's plenty of historical precedent -- Manchester & Milford; Potteries, Shrewsbury & North Wales; and the like...

 

[Peter C]

It's always been called that, or at least something containing the words Gloucestershire, Warwickshire and Railway. I remember when the line only ran from Toddington to Winchcombe - and you couldn't even get on or off at the latter - but that didn't stop them having aspirations towards Warwickshire!

It's a good one for the pub quiz, actually: "The Gloucestershire & Warwickshire Steam Railway serves stations in two English counties. Which?".

I never thought about that before; granted, I'm not the best at counties and where they are...!

 

[E759]

Should heritage railways expand? Yes, they should expand their parking, toilet and catering facilities. These three criteria will be top of the list of the majority of visitors.

 

[Llanigraham]

Should heritage railways expand? Yes, they should expand their parking, toilet and catering facilities. These three criteria will be top of the list of the majority of visitors.

Oh so true!!
Good parking allows more passengers, and sorry to say it but the largest majority of the paying public do arrive in that manner, no matter what others think.
Grotty toilets equals disgruntalled passengers, especially of the female variety. And remember often they don't really want to be there, but have been "dragged" there by their partners.
Catering makes money!! It is one of the best profit making elements of any railway, but it needs to be of a decent quality and not the ready-packed paper cups of coffee found at one local station. Even just providing a basic cup in a decent cup goes a long way.

 

[bramling]

Should heritage railways expand? Yes, they should expand their parking, toilet and catering facilities. These three criteria will be top of the list of the majority of visitors.

Can’t help but find this a rather sad verdict on modern Britain. But very true.

 

[Malcmal]

Oh so true!!
Good parking allows more passengers, and sorry to say it but the largest majority of the paying public do arrive in that manner, no matter what others think.
Grotty toilets equals disgruntalled passengers, especially of the female variety. And remember often they don't really want to be there, but have been "dragged" there by their partners.
Catering makes money!! It is one of the best profit making elements of any railway, but it needs to be of a decent quality and not the ready-packed paper cups of coffee found at one local station. Even just providing a basic cup in a decent cup goes a long way.

All of which are beautifully catered for by the new GWSR station at Broadway. Their blog is quite addictive and I really enjoy reading it!

It's quite amusing to see various personality types shining through in this thread. The impossible dreamers, the pragmatists, the pessimists and then the downright misery-guts who like to throw cold water over everything!!! I remember when people were saying that 60163 Tornado was just a stupid pipe-dream and that people should get real. So while there are some downright impossible ideas floating around - "never say never" is worth remembering before reaching for the keyboard

 

[Peter C]

All of which are beautifully catered for by the new GWSR station at Broadway. Their blog is quite addictive and I really enjoy reading it!

It's quite amusing to see various personality types shining through in this thread. The impossible dreamers, the pragmatists, the pessimists and then the downright misery-guts who like to throw cold water over everything!!! I remember when people were saying that 60163 Tornado was just a stupid pipe-dream and that people should get real. So while there are some downright impossible ideas floating around - "never say never" is worth remembering before reaching for the keyboard

That's the best way of describing this, I think!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I know linking the WSR to the mainline is fraught with problems but are they insurmountable? Could a new station (a la Smallbrook Junction) be built at Norton Fitzwarren ?

 

[Calthrop]

Oh so true!!
Good parking allows more passengers, and sorry to say it but the largest majority of the paying public do arrive in that manner, no matter what others think.
Grotty toilets equals disgruntalled passengers, especially of the female variety. And remember often they don't really want to be there, but have been "dragged" there by their partners.
Catering makes money!! It is one of the best profit making elements of any railway, but it needs to be of a decent quality and not the ready-packed paper cups of coffee found at one local station. Even just providing a basic cup in a decent cup goes a long way.

Can’t help but find this a rather sad verdict on modern Britain. But very true.

I have perhaps a rather strange take on the whole preservation thing: can't get to feel truly "over the moon" about most of it -- am pleased that there is preservation; but even at its very best, it is for me only a pale and distorted shadow of the -- perceived by me -- glories of Britain's rail scene sixty-plus years ago. Don't think I could find any of present-day preservation tolerable -- even our very best preserved steam lines -- if they involved nothing but "gricers either playing trains, or enjoying that being done". The one saving thing for me -- making the scene in spirit, a little like what once was -- is that a vital contribution to preserved lines' survival, is fares in one form or another from people who come to ride on them: most of those people not being railway enthusiasts. Occasioning sentiments on my part, pretty much polar-opposite to those voiced here by bramling: I am mostly thankful for the seeming crassness of the customers' top wants -- good parking / toilets / catering (I've heard added to that list, courtesy on the part of railway staff) -- reinforces said customers' predominating lack of delight in the experience for its own sake: of which lack I, in my weirdness, feel glad.

 

[HaggisBotherer]

I've been away, therefore unable to recently contribute to this thread....

I think that heritage railways, especially in the case of the GWSR*, are more and more becoming ways for people to get from A to B. That was the original intention of these lines; to move people from one place to another.

With respect, Peter C, it appears that you have somehow managed to miss over 100 years of massive social change? Your comment immediately flagged up that old chestnut 'community railway'.

Just to emphasize that my thoughts are expressed purely personally. From just about the start of railway preservation, there have been aspirations for pleasure railways to provide some sort of "public transport" service and these have not succeeded. Of course there will be the occasional local user.

I don't always agree with Paul's various online utterancess, but I agree 100% on this.

Many schemes have mooted the 'community railway' idea, along with words like 'commuter' and 'shopper'. A number have also tried to put the idea into practise, including the Weardale, Wensleydale, the RH&DR's school service and so on. However, the number of those that have actually succeeded with it is a handy round number. Because it's 0.

Like it or not, in the 2000s people are simply not going to recreate the 'good old days' of walking to their local branch line station in all weathers, spend more money than the car costs them getting on a slow train with a bunch of families to another station (a train which, in the majority of cases, probably won't run at a time that is convenient), get off, walk to their destination, walk back to the station and repeat the experience in reverse.

Heritage railways exist for leisure, for days out and holidays, where the 'normal' rules of everyday rail travel simply don't apply. The railway or a ride on a heritage train is a destination in itself for almost every visitor, Joe Public or enthusiast alike. Even for those who use a heritage train to get to Whitby, or to be dropped off at Highley and walk or ride a bike to Bewdley, or indeed for the Hooray Henry and Henrietta brigade to use the GWSR for a tiny part of their journey as they totter along to Cheltenham racecourse smashed out of their minds on gin, Prosecco and cocaine, the heritage train ride is still an integral part of the destination. It is never the sole means to get there.

Ultimately, heritage railways are selling an experience, they are not a transport system. That's the difference. If Peter C is quoting 'the original intention of these lines' and, as noted, has somehow managed to miss over 100 years of massive social change since then, I do rather wonder how rooted in contemporary reality his ideas are.

As Paul says, there will be the occasional local - probably retired, with (unlike most people) time and disposable income on their hands - which can afford the luxury of using the odd heritage train to get from A to B (so it probably doesn't matter that the line doesn;t run in winter). But this is an infitessimally tiny minority, I would suggest in single figures on any railway that it even happens.

I challenge Peter C (or indeed anyone else) to do some proper, quantifiable research - using hard, statistical data with contemporarty, real-world facts and figures - to prove me that any heritage railway can afford to run any kind of service on the basis of 'getting people from A to B'. I'm confident that you won't be able to.

 

[HaggisBotherer]

Ah yes i forgot about the issues with building three new level crossings (which combined with the current National Rail one at Robertsbridge will mean the area will have four level crossings). Although most heritage railways don't run very frequently so i can't see it being too much of a problem (it won't be anything close to being like certain busy level crossings which close every couple of minutes). What is the current rough estimate for the extension to open? Will it likely be in the next five or ten years?

The current rough estimate is that it'll happen when (and if) it happens.

 

[reddragon]

I've been away, therefore unable to recently contribute to this thread....

With respect, Peter C, it appears that you have somehow managed to miss over 100 years of massive social change? Your comment immediately flagged up that old chestnut 'community railway'.

I don't always agree with Paul's various online utterancess, but I agree 100% on this.

Many schemes have mooted the 'community railway' idea, along with words like 'commuter' and 'shopper'. A number have also tried to put the idea into practise, including the Weardale, Wensleydale, the RH&DR's school service and so on. However, the number of those that have actually succeeded with it is a handy round number. Because it's 0.

Like it or not, in the 2000s people are simply not going to recreate the 'good old days' of walking to their local branch line station in all weathers, spend more money than the car costs them getting on a slow train with a bunch of families to another station (a train which, in the majority of cases, probably won't run at a time that is convenient), get off, walk to their destination, walk back to the station and repeat the experience in reverse.

Heritage railways exist for leisure, for days out and holidays, where the 'normal' rules of everyday rail travel simply don't apply. The railway or a ride on a heritage train is a destination in itself for almost every visitor, Joe Public or enthusiast alike. Even for those who use a heritage train to get to Whitby, or to be dropped off at Highley and walk or ride a bike to Bewdley, or indeed for the Hooray Henry and Henrietta brigade to use the GWSR for a tiny part of their journey as they totter along to Cheltenham racecourse smashed out of their minds on gin, Prosecco and cocaine, the heritage train ride is still an integral part of the destination. It is never the sole means to get there.

Ultimately, heritage railways are selling an experience, they are not a transport system. That's the difference. If Peter C is quoting 'the original intention of these lines' and, as noted, has somehow managed to miss over 100 years of massive social change since then, I do rather wonder how rooted in contemporary reality his ideas are.

As Paul says, there will be the occasional local - probably retired, with (unlike most people) time and disposable income on their hands - which can afford the luxury of using the odd heritage train to get from A to B (so it probably doesn't matter that the line doesn;t run in winter). But this is an infitessimally tiny minority, I would suggest in single figures on any railway that it even happens.

I challenge Peter C (or indeed anyone else) to do some proper, quantifiable research - using hard, statistical data with contemporarty, real-world facts and figures - to prove me that any heritage railway can afford to run any kind of service on the basis of 'getting people from A to B'. I'm confident that you won't be able to.

So on that basis a Cruise ship is an experience and not transport even if it takes you to places.

Flying is certainly not transport, as most trips are for pleasure & the flight is part of the experience.

Driving a nice car is an experience, definitely not a form of transport!

Where do you draw the line?

The WHR transports people into Snowdonia so that they can Park & Ride to reduce traffic. Are you saying that P&R services are not Transport?

The GWSR transports people to Cheltenham Festival, on chartered trains at a sizeable profit. So because the train is part of the experience (as are the coaches / helicopters / limos) it is somehow not transport?

The GWSR transports people to Broadway who otherwise couldn't visit either because they have no car or because parking there is impossible in the summer. Somehow not transport?

Heritage railways are just a nice way of getting somewhere, as are many main line routes; Settle & Carlise - is not transport then?

Heritage railways provide transport in the summer where needed.

 

[cav1975]

Heritage railways provide transport in the summer where needed.

Even on the Isle of Wight we provide genuine local transport once a year when people use our trains to get to the Ashey Scurry Race meeting.

There is a lot of truth in the post earlier about expanding parking, toilets, catering etc. Don't forget there is also a crying need on many railways to provide something to see at stations before or after the train ride. We are working hard on that and our visitors seem to appreciate the result.

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

. Don't forget there is also a crying need on many railways to provide something to see at stations before or after the train ride.

I really do agree! Perhaps it is true of "most" rather than "many"

 

[Brush 4]

Along with the WHR, Swanage also has a P&R service that saves many car journeys into a crowded Purbeck. The journeys are leisure but also a transport service to Swanage and the beach. P&DR probably carry beachgoers to Goodrington Sands. It is commuting that won't happen, unless lines start and finish earlier, with DMU's. Not sure that any have ever actually tried that. By early, 7.30 onwards and 5-6pm in the evening on a residents card type thing. I'm sure a few locals have used trains to go shopping on various lines say, Haworth to Keighley but, as they don't make a song and dance about it, they go unnoticed.

 

[Shenandoah]

The majority of passengers on the Dartmouth line board at Paignton, some at Goodrington and a few at Churston all with the intent of travelling to Kingswear for Dartmouth. Many will be on river trips and other cruises. There are quite a good number who travel to Churston, from either direction, to catch the bus (Dart Valley owned) for Greenway House (former Agatha Christie home). Morning trains travel back to Paignton lightly loaded.
There are some who travel to Kingswear and walk back to parts of Torbay using the coastal footpath. So there are plenty of reasons and variety for travelling other that a simple train ride. There are many season ticket holders who use the services as well as tourists.
No plans to extend anywhere - where, other than the main line, would they go? As they say !if it 'aint broke don't fix it!!

 

[HaggisBotherer]

All of these examples are seasonal and based on tourism, not 'getting people from A to B' in the sense of the big railway.

Which part of...

Even for those who use a heritage train to get to Whitby, or to be dropped off at Highley and walk or ride a bike to Bewdley, or indeed for the Hooray Henry and Henrietta brigade to use the GWSR for a tiny part of their journey as they totter along to Cheltenham racecourse smashed out of their minds on gin, Prosecco and cocaine, the heritage train ride is still an integral part of the destination.It is never the sole means to get there

... did you peeps miss?

Flying is certainly not transport, as most trips are for pleasure & the flight is part of the experience.

You must have discovered something that all the business travellers on airlines have somehow missed, then?

 

[bramling]

The majority of passengers on the Dartmouth line board at Paignton, some at Goodrington and a few at Churston all with the intent of travelling to Kingswear for Dartmouth. Many will be on river trips and other cruises. There are quite a good number who travel to Churston, from either direction, to catch the bus (Dart Valley owned) for Greenway House (former Agatha Christie home). Morning trains travel back to Paignton lightly loaded.
There are some who travel to Kingswear and walk back to parts of Torbay using the coastal footpath. So there are plenty of reasons and variety for travelling other that a simple train ride. There are many season ticket holders who use the services as well as tourists.
No plans to extend anywhere - where, other than the main line, would they go? As they say !if it 'aint broke don't fix it!!

Greenway Halt has become quite busy since being marketed more extensively as a means of getting to the house. I was surprised how busy it was last time I went on the P&D.