Liverpool Lime St remodelling

[tony_mac]

October 2017 has been three weeks for a while, the nine days is next year, IIRC.

I don't think it has been reported before now. The 9 days starting September 30th has been widely publicised. (including post 1 of this thread)

 

[snowball]

This press release appeared yesterday, incorporating the picture posted by Watcher:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds...-move-during-lime-street-upgrade-this-autumn/

Liverpool to stay on the move during Lime Street upgrade this autumn

Transport partners unveiled plans today to keep Liverpool open for business while its main railway station undergoes a three-week transformation this autumn.

Journeys through Lime Street will be affected for 23 days, from 30 September to 22 October, while Network Rail undertakes vital upgrades to enable the station to cater for a forecast doubling in passenger numbers during peak periods by 2043.

Part of a £340m railway investment programme by Network Rail and Liverpool City Region from now until 2019, the Lime Street station upgrade comes as the successful six-month renewal of the Wirral line concludes.

It is one of 10 major railway upgrades across the Liverpool City Region and sits within the wider Great North Rail Project to transform rail travel for customers in the North of England.

The transport plan will involve keeping people on the rail network wherever possible, diverting many mainline services to Liverpool South Parkway and getting people to and from the city on the Merseyrail network. Where rail replacement buses are offered, every attempt has been made to procure the best quality buses.

Martin Frobisher, Network Rail’s London North Western route managing director, said: “Our Liverpool Lime Street work is the biggest upgrade of the station since the 19th century.

“It will enable faster, more frequent and reliable train services by 2019. As Liverpool’s economy grows the railway is growing too.

“We are working with rail industry and the Liverpool City Region colleagues to keep the people of Merseyside on the move throughout the Lime Street closure.

“The short-term pain of re-routed commutes will be worth the long-term gain of transformed train travel in future.”

Frank Rogers, chief executive at Merseytravel, said: “The Liverpool City Region is bold in its ambitions for transport and other major infrastructure improvements and with that inevitably comes some disruption.

“However, we’re confident that we can keep people travelling to and from Liverpool for work, business or leisure in a way that may mean changes to their journeys, but one that remains a positive experience.

“This work to Lime Street is an important stepping stone towards long term improvements to the City Region’s capacity and connectivity. We’re making the case for full high-speed rail connections west-east, joining up north-south HS2 infrastructure with Northern Powerhouse Rail into Liverpool.”

Chris Nutton, major projects director at TransPennine Express, said: “The six train companies who serve Liverpool have been working together for more than a year to develop a plan that will keep customers moving during Network Rail’s important project.

“While there will be significant changes to regular services during this period, there will be alternative options available.

“Rest assured, we will be sharing this information in advance allowing customers to plan their journeys and consider any changes they may need to make.”

Jan Chaudhry, managing director at Merseyrail, said: “Merseyrail will play a vital role in keeping the city region moving over these three weeks, with our trains being used to carry passengers from further afield between Liverpool South Parkway and the city-centre.

Key transport projects like Lime Street, a gateway to the city region, will ultimately boost the local economy, and we are keen to get behind them.”

During the Lime Street works this autumn engineers will be remodelling station platforms, increasing them in number and in length. Work will also take place to install overhead line equipment to power electric trains and upgrade track.

This is the first of two phases of work at Liverpool Lime Street, with a further station closure planned in 2018. Once work is complete passengers will be able to enjoy three new services per hour in and out of Lime Street station, including new direct services to Scotland, more reliable services and a re-modelled concourse.

Meanwhile the Wirral loop line reopens on Monday, June 19 after a successful upgrade to maintain the long-term reliability of this key rail network.

Network Rail engineers have worked around the clock since January replacing 1.2km of concrete slab, repairing and realigning track and upgrading 1,100 yards of track below the river bed.

A co-ordinated City Region approach, which has seen passengers adapt well to changes to their journeys during each phase of the renewal, has been adopted in the preparations for the Lime Street works.

 

[fowler9]

Well the three week closure is going to be a bit of a pain for me but I gladly pay the price.

 

[DJH1971]

Looks like I'll have to be driving to work for those 3 weeks

 

[snowball]

I don't think it has been reported before now. The 9 days starting September 30th has been widely publicised. (including post 1 of this thread)

Three weeks mentioned in post #23.

 

[8A Rail]

Looks like I'll have to be driving to work for those 3 weeks

May be better having three weeks off work given the fact that if everybody does what you are thinking then you spend half the day in traffic (and then find a parking space)! Push bike would be a better option, more healthy, get fit and if it rains, take some soap and have a shower on your way into work too!

 

[DJH1971]

May be better having three weeks off work given the fact that if everybody does what you are thinking then you spend half the day in traffic (and then find a parking space)! Push bike would be a better option, more healthy, get fit and if it rains, take some soap and have a shower on your way into work too!

Yet in the Liverpool Echo, it mentions a total shut down for the first 9 days, and then a limited weekday service for the remaining 14 days.


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/new-photo-how-liverpool-lime-13190968

The station will be totally closed for nine days and largely closed until 20 October.

 

[childwallblues]

May be better having three weeks off work given the fact that if everybody does what you are thinking then you spend half the day in traffic (and then find a parking space)! Push bike would be a better option, more healthy, get fit and if it rains, take some soap and have a shower on your way into work too!

Ah so that is the way you get to work is it Doug?

 

[Polarbear]

My original post was based on my understanding (at the time) that there were to be two closures of Lime Street, one this year and a second one in 2018.

As it now appears that the closure this autumn will be for longer that the 10 day's originally suggested, does this mean that some/all of the work that was due to take place during the second closure is being brought forward?

A three week closure where I work isn't going to go down particularly well. As well as commuting to from work, we have to visit customers, many of whom are based in London. Whilst the original proposal of a 9 day closure in September/October would be easy enough to work around, a 3 week closure (with the possibility of a follow up next year) is a bit more tricky.

Has Network Rail published anything definitive about the closures as yet? The only information I can see on their website is a general overview of the work that needs to be done, but without any specifics such as dates?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Most of the current publicity is about Lime St closures.
Independently of Lime St itself, there are also bound to be route closures through South Parkway and Runcorn for the resignalling work, which will also be disruptive.
The Huyton work also has to be scheduled, which will close the Chat Moss route with at least one blockade.
Services out of Liverpool are going to be disrupted over quite a long period.
At least the Wirral line comes back tomorrow.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Most of the current publicity is about Lime St closures.
Independently of Lime St itself, there are also bound to be route closures through South Parkway and Runcorn for the resignalling work, which will also be disruptive.
The Huyton work also has to be scheduled, which will close the Chat Moss route with at least one blockade.
Services out of Liverpool are going to be disrupted over quite a long period.
At least the Wirral line comes back tomorrow.

Unless, of course, the 2017 three-weeker includes Weaver-Wavertree resignalling and/or the commissioning of the fourth track at Huyton?

 

[childwallblues]

Most of the current publicity is about Lime St closures.
Independently of Lime St itself, there are also bound to be route closures through South Parkway and Runcorn for the resignalling work, which will also be disruptive.
The Huyton work also has to be scheduled, which will close the Chat Moss route with at least one blockade.
Services out of Liverpool are going to be disrupted over quite a long period.
At least the Wirral line comes back tomorrow.

It looks like the 4th track at Huyton id under way with a track machine on site.

 

[louis97]

Unless, of course, the 2017 three-weeker includes Weaver-Wavertree resignalling and/or the commissioning of the fourth track at Huyton?

That was certainly the plan a couple of years ago, with Allerton and Speke due to close. May 2018 would then see the closure of Ditton, Runcorn and Halton. At the same time the fourth track Roby-Huyton was to be commissioned and Edge Hill signal box re-controlled to Manchester ROC. Not sure if that has changed or not though.

 

[Polarbear]

Returning to work today has yielded a bit more information about the forthcoming works.

Although NR will be working on Lime Street for three weeks, it appears the total closure will only last for 9 days, between 30 September and 5 October 2017. During this time, trains from the south will terminate at Liverpool South Parkway, with onward connections to Liverpool city centre by Merseyrail. Rail replacement buses will also operate between Liverpool and St Helens Junction/Central.

Between 6 October 2017 and 21 October, two platforms (numbered 1 & 2 in the documentation I have seen, though whether they are the old or new numbers, I have no idea) will be available. This will allow a service to be provided to/from the St Helen's lines, but only between 06:00 and 20:00 on weekdays. At other times, rail replacement buses will operate between Liverpool and Huyton.

No mention of any alternatives for Mossley Hill & West Allerton?

This means three weeks of no direct services to many places, with a second round to follow in 2018 too.

 

[DJH1971]

Returning to work today has yielded a bit more information about the forthcoming works.

Although NR will be working on Lime Street for three weeks, it appears the total closure will only last for 9 days, between 30 September and 5 October 2017.

That's what I heard and that's much better considering.

 

[Class 170101]

Is that for electric trains or Diesel ones only between 06:00 and 20:00 weekdays?

 

[Polarbear]

Is that for electric trains or Diesel ones only between 06:00 and 20:00 weekdays?

Sorry, I don't know, but I would expect the access to be for both as (presumably) the work on that side of the station will have been completed by then?

 

[fowler9]

Returning to work today has yielded a bit more information about the forthcoming works.

Although NR will be working on Lime Street for three weeks, it appears the total closure will only last for 9 days, between 30 September and 5 October 2017. During this time, trains from the south will terminate at Liverpool South Parkway, with onward connections to Liverpool city centre by Merseyrail. Rail replacement buses will also operate between Liverpool and St Helens Junction/Central.

Between 6 October 2017 and 21 October, two platforms (numbered 1 & 2 in the documentation I have seen, though whether they are the old or new numbers, I have no idea) will be available. This will allow a service to be provided to/from the St Helen's lines, but only between 06:00 and 20:00 on weekdays. At other times, rail replacement buses will operate between Liverpool and Huyton.

No mention of any alternatives for Mossley Hill & West Allerton?

This means three weeks of no direct services to many places, with a second round to follow in 2018 too.

I'm guessing Mossley Hill and West Allerton will get a Rail Replacement bus. The 80/80A bus also stops not too far from both stations. Might be a bit busy for a while although to be honest my local station, West Allerton doesn't get that busy for most of the day.

 

[8A Rail]

Ah so that is the way you get to work is it Doug?

For an unfortunate period last year, the answer was yes - but forgot to take the soap with me! Fortunately, I dont work in the city centre but if I did, no way I would use a car to get there for work purposes.

Returning to work today has yielded a bit more information about the forthcoming works.

Although NR will be working on Lime Street for three weeks, it appears the total closure will only last for 9 days, between 30 September and 5 October 2017. During this time, trains from the south will terminate at Liverpool South Parkway, with onward connections to Liverpool city centre by Merseyrail. Rail replacement buses will also operate between Liverpool and St Helens Junction/Central.

Between 6 October 2017 and 21 October, two platforms (numbered 1 & 2 in the documentation I have seen, though whether they are the old or new numbers, I have no idea) will be available. This will allow a service to be provided to/from the St Helen's lines, but only between 06:00 and 20:00 on weekdays. At other times, rail replacement buses will operate between Liverpool and Huyton.

No mention of any alternatives for Mossley Hill & West Allerton?

This means three weeks of no direct services to many places, with a second round to follow in 2018 too.

Interesting about the options on the L&M Line with replacement buses in the periods stated as I am wondering whether freight trains (Biomass/Scrap/Steel) will be affected as they are only going to Olive Mount Junction and should not affect Lime St etc as such. If there is no freight train, then I suspect NR may have to pay compensation of some sort?

 

[185]

Controversial post time.

Q. Should the
*big ugly monstrosity / *iconic postmodernist gem
big black wall fronting platforms 1-6 be demolished, Manchester Piccadilly style or stay in it's current form.

*delete as applicable whilst punching screen

 

[8A Rail]

Controversial post time.

Q. Should the
*big ugly monstrosity / *iconic postmodernist gem
big black wall fronting platforms 1-6 be demolished, Manchester Piccadilly style or stay in it's current form.

*delete as applicable whilst punching screen

In an ideal world - yes BUT commercial and operational considerations will be at the top of the list for it to remain.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Interesting about the options on the L&M Line with replacement buses in the periods stated as I am wondering whether freight trains (Biomass/Scrap/Steel) will be affected as they are only going to Olive Mount Junction and should not affect Lime St etc as such. If there is no freight train, then I suspect NR may have to pay compensation of some sort?

Part of the work at Liverpool seems to include upgrading the Bootle branch, with line speed up from 20 to 40mph.
So they will need a closure for that at some stage.
Biomass could always be temporarily switched to another port by agreement with Drax.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Part of the work at Liverpool seems to include upgrading the Bootle branch, with line speed up from 20 to 40mph.
So they will need a closure for that at some stage.
Biomass could always be temporarily switched to another port by agreement with Drax.

I believe the work also includes removing the single line access to the dock estate at Alexandra Dock and easing the present sharp curve with a new double track section. Exactly when this will take place is not known, but it will be necessary to accommodate the additional intermodal trains that will run to and from Seaforth. I understand proposal plans are currently with Peel's Board for approval in relation to intermodal movements from the terminal which could resume in the near future. During a recent presentation Peel confirmed that discussions were well underway to bring at least two post panamax carrier services to the Liverpool2 terminal. This would mean vessels of between 14000 teu and 20000 teu calling at the port which would necessitate an alternative to road distribution.

 

[8A Rail]

I believe the work also includes removing the single line access to the dock estate at Alexandra Dock and easing the present sharp curve with a new double track section. Exactly when this will take place is not known, but it will be necessary to accommodate the additional intermodal trains that will run to and from Seaforth. I understand proposal plans are currently with Peel's Board for approval in relation to intermodal movements from the terminal which could resume in the near future. During a recent presentation Peel confirmed that discussions were well underway to bring at least two post panamax carrier services to the Liverpool2 terminal. This would mean vessels of between 14000 teu and 20000 teu calling at the port which would necessitate an alternative to road distribution.

Nothing planned in the near future having spoken to the Rail Ops Manager today with regards to either track or trains. Double track would make it operationally better but not nessessary as there are more than enough paths for trains in and out of the docks - in fact the current rails are under used as such. Certainly there are plans in place to extend the rails at Seaforth CT but again, not anytime soon either. It is clear "Peel" are optimistic that eventually there will be additional rail traffic but it needs "Liverpool 2" to take off first but the existing layout at the terminal will suffice (i.e split train in two at the terminal) in the short to medium term. It was suggested that the numerous suppliers of goods that are shipped in containers to put pressure on the Shipping Lines to provide the service rather than waiting for the Shipping Lines to provide the service in the first place. Sort of reverse logic which hopefully makes sense? Watch this space I suppose and all will be revealed in due course.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Nothing planned in the near future having spoken to the Rail Ops Manager today with regards to either track or trains. Double track would make it operationally better but not nessessary as there are more than enough paths for trains in and out of the docks - in fact the current rails are under used as such. Certainly there are plans in place to extend the rails at Seaforth CT but again, not anytime soon either. It is clear "Peel" are optimistic that eventually there will be additional rail traffic but it needs "Liverpool 2" to take off first but the existing layout at the terminal will suffice (i.e split train in two at the terminal) in the short to medium term. It was suggested that the numerous suppliers of goods that are shipped in containers to put pressure on the Shipping Lines to provide the service rather than waiting for the Shipping Lines to provide the service in the first place. Sort of reverse logic which hopefully makes sense? Watch this space I suppose and all will be revealed in due course.

Peels Cargo 200 initiative has signed up over 200 shippers/receivers in the region to encourage the shipping lines to introduce more direct deep sea services to the Port.

https://www.peelports.com/campaigns/cargo200i

During a recent presentation it was confirmed that at least one group of these companies had been introduced to carrier representatives and discussions with the carrier(s) concerned were ongoing about introducing post panamax services to the port. A Peel representative also revealed that they were expecting to complete phase 2 of Liverpool, which comprises three more ship to shore gantries and twelve RMG's in the next 18 to 24 months. T

Seaforth is presently working at near maximum if not above capacity and there is a need to move some services to Liverpool2, which is already beginning to happen with MSC using the terminal for it's Antwerp service which is operated by 4000 teu panamax vessels. It's likely that the St Lawrence service will also transfer to Liverpool2 in the near future especially as now the Canadian authorities are to allow ships of up to about 6000 teu to enter the port. This joint service is presently operated jointly by Hapag Lloyd, OOCL and MSC with the latter operating 2 x 4000 plus teu vessels. Next month Hapag Lloyd will introduce a similar sized vessel to replace a 2800 vessel for at least one voyage and this could signal a move to a more uniform fleet and allow the move to Liverpool2 which presently is unable to handle vessels of under 3000 teu for technical reasons.

Agree it is watch is space, the use of rail distribution is definitely on the agenda for Liverpool2 and from what was said at the presentation it is likely there will be developments in the next six to twelve months.

 

[sd0733]

Some timings are now on RTT for the blockade. Heres South Parkway for the Monday.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LPY/2017/10/02/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

The Virgin services look like they head towards Liverpool out of platform 4 then turnround and head back through the station non stop.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Some timings are now on RTT for the blockade. Heres South Parkway for the Monday.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LPY/2017/10/02/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

The Virgin services look like they head towards Liverpool out of platform 4 then turnround and head back through the station non stop.

I think LM services do much the same, but ECS (P2 to P3).

 

[BMIFlyer]

Some timings are now on RTT for the blockade. Heres South Parkway for the Monday.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LPY/2017/10/02/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

The Virgin services look like they head towards Liverpool out of platform 4 then turnround and head back through the station non stop.

Correct, or you'd have to run wrong line from platform 4 all the way to Speke Junction.

AN4 signal is where the train changes direction and it's to the west of south parkway station.

 

[DJH1971]

Is that for electric trains or Diesel ones only between 06:00 and 20:00 weekdays?

Anyone have an update on whether a limited service will be taking place after the first 9 days?

 

[Camden]

8 minutes to get out of the station!