Liverpool-London Eurovision crowdbuster operated by LSL

[OvergroundMatt]

It looks like Locomotive Services Ltd will be operating a crowdbuster service the day after the Eurovision final, on May 14, from Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston, departing 1203 with a call at Crewe at 1239. I've not seen any publicity about this. Does anyone know any more about it? Traction, rolling stock? I was lucky enough to get tickets to the final so I may use it to get back to London.

Here's a link to the details on RTT.

 

[zwk500]

It looks like Locomotive Services Ltd will be operating a crowdbuster service the day after the Eurovision final, on May 14, from Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston, departing 1203 with a call at Crewe at 1239. I've not seen any publicity about this. Does anyone know any more about it? Traction, rolling stock? I was lucky enough to get tickets to the final so I may use it to get back to London.

Here's a link to the details on RTT.

Pathed as Electric Loco at 110mph, so It's almost certainly the 90 with a Mk3 rake. Given it's the same timing load back to Crewe, I'd guess it's 90001 with the Mk3 + DVT Intercity set. Not sure which end the loco will be.

 

[jfollows]

2h40m Crewe-London (12:41-15:21) average speed just under 60mph! 35 minutes of pathing allowance.

 

[DanNCL]

Planned to be 86101 with the Intercity Mk3+DVT set.

 

[zwk500]

2h40m Crewe-London (12:41-15:21) average speed just under 60mph! 35 minutes of pathing allowance.

It does OK up until MK, must be a 2-track block on or similar for it to be pathed back like that on the fast line

Planned to be 86101 with the Intercity Mk3+DVT set.

I was nearly right!

 

[jfollows]

It does OK up until MK, must be a 2-track block on or similar for it to be pathed back like that on the fast line

Good spot, it looks like 2-track FL only from Ledburn Junction to Wembley (it's a Sunday).

 

[zwk500]

Good spot, it looks like 2-track FL only from Ledburn Junction to Wembley (it's a Sunday).

I have previous experience of timing class 90 charters from Liverpool to London on weekends, I know the pain of coming up to red hatching on the graph all too well...

 

[The Planner]

Two track block and high side at Euston on the 14th so that's why its so slow. Surprised it even got a path. Load of track work.

 

[jfollows]

Two track block and high side at Euston on the 14th so that's why its so slow. Surprised it even got a path. Load of track work.

No platforms >12 and slow lines to Wembley all day, indeed.

 

[12LDA28C]

Seemingly unreported on here but LSL also ran some additionals out of Liverpool to Manchester late last night/early this morning using 47712 and the DBSO rake.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

2h40m Crewe-London (12:41-15:21) average speed just under 60mph! 35 minutes of pathing allowance.

Runs via Stoke as well.

 

[andy35554]

Seemingly unreported on here but LSL also ran some additionals out of Liverpool to Manchester late last night/early this morning using 47712 and the DBSO rake.

2x 47/57 top n tail with 5 blue grey mk2s operating a few trips through the day too. Just spotted it from a distance 11:00 dep from lime street

 

[12LDA28C]

2x 47/57 top n tail with 5 blue grey mk2s operating a few trips through the day too. Just spotted it from a distance 11:00 dep from lime street

2 x 47s yes, although operated by WCRC, not LSL. 47813/47826.

 

[D6130]

Seemingly unreported on here but LSL also ran some additionals out of Liverpool to Manchester late last night/early this morning using 47712 and the DBSO rake.

Reported by me several days ago in the "Liverpool Eurovision Nightmare waiting to happen" thread.

 

[peter166]

Seemingly unreported on here but LSL also ran some additionals out of Liverpool to Manchester late last night/early this morning using 47712 and the DBSO rake.

30 mins non-stop each way......if only it could be like that as a regular timetabled service throughout a normal day ! ?

Realtime Trains | 1Z46 0022 Manchester Piccadilly to Liverpool Lime Street | 14/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z46 0022 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Liverpool Lime Street on 14/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1Z48 0128 Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Piccadilly | 14/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z48 0128 departure from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Piccadilly on 14/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Mike395]

I'm on the 'crowdbuster' charter which has ground to a halt just north of Kidsgrove - 'hotel power' to the coaches looks to have stopped (at least in terms of the AC adapters and the pneumatic floor pads for the internal doors) so suspecting some sort of loco issue, though no announcements yet.

(Edit: As I post this - we've just started moving again!)

 

[peter166]

I'm on the 'crowdbuster' charter which has ground to a halt just north of Kidsgrove - 'hotel power' to the coaches looks to have stopped (at least in terms of the AC adapters and the pneumatic floor pads for the internal doors) so suspecting some sort of loco issue, though no announcements yet.

(Edit: As I post this - we've just started moving again!)

Seems to be on the move again now about 25 mins late on RTT. Any reason given for the delay? Are there many passengers on the train?

 

[Mike395]

Seems to be on the move again now about 25 mins late on RTT. Any reason given for the delay? Are there many passengers on the train?

Nothing I've heard re the delay (though I've had headphones on since we started moving again so entirely possibly I missed one).

Train is very well loaded - I had a wander through most of it and I'd estimate the total load was approaching 90% across the train prior to the call at Crewe. Avanti staff were sending London-bound passengers without reservations to a queueing system at Liverpool and putting them on the next available train with space, including filling this charter - very impressive operation and much better than some of the previous LSL-run crowdbusters. Full ticket check before being allowed to enter the queue too, much to the disappointment of at least one group hoping for a free ride.

 

[jfollows]

Seems to be on the move again now about 25 mins late on RTT. Any reason given for the delay? Are there many passengers on the train?

I was going to suggest that it became gapped by the infamous neutral section (which was actually moved as a result) but I think it was on the move again too quickly for that anyway.

 

[OvergroundMatt]

A member of the on-train crew said he thought we were just being held at a red signal - which would make sense as we stopped just before the junction with the line to Congleton. Wouldn’t explain the brief loss of some power though.

 

[Mike395]

A member of the on-train crew said he thought we were just being held at a red signal - which would make sense as we stopped just before the junction with the line to Congleton. Wouldn’t explain the brief loss of some power though.

Whilst possible, I'd have been surprised if it was a red signal - OpenTrainTimes was showing the block ahead in Kidsgrove station clear and the junction is the block after the station platform. I guess its plausible we'd got stuck in the neutral section having slowed for a signal that then cleared, though the other end to the loco is presumably just a DVT so I'm not sure how we'd have started moving again under our own power quite so quickly.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Ah so that's why it was 25 minutes late at Kidsgrove then. I was waiting to video it. When it did pass through though it was a lovely sight. Surprised how few passengers were on though at this point.

 

[Mike395]

Ah so that's why it was 25 minutes late at Kidsgrove then. I was waiting to video it. When it did pass through though it was a lovely sight. Surprised how few passengers were on though at this point.

Yes - I was surprised how many alighted at Crewe (presumably for connections to intermediate stations and the Midlands)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

2h40m Crewe-London (12:41-15:21) average speed just under 60mph! 35 minutes of pathing allowance.

One thing I don't understand about RTT is where it has entries for so many minutes allowance, but this is not reflected in the WTT times.
eg This train on RTT shows a 10min allowance at Bourne End, but the WTT times show times only 2 minutes apart Berkhamsted-Bourne End and Bourne End-Hemel.
So where has the 10 minutes gone into the schedule?

 

[jfollows]

One thing I don't understand about RTT is where it has entries for so many minutes allowance, but this is not reflected in the WTT times.
eg This train on RTT shows a 10min allowance at Bourne End, but the WTT times show times only 2 minutes apart Berkhamsted-Bourne End and Bourne End-Hemel.
So where has the 10 minutes gone into the schedule?

A lot of the timings on RTT are interpolated or made up timings, between official WTT timing points.
So Tring - Bourne End - Watford Junction are the only actual WTT timing points.
It's good that RTT fills in the blanks, as it were, it's helpful, but the extra time has probably been apportioned across a number of interpolated timing points because it's "really" only between the official timing points. There will be a total of 10 minutes added by the next official timing point, Watford Junction, it hasn’t disappeared.

EDIT It's normally 4 minutes or a bit more between Bourne End and Watford Junction, but this 1Z90 schedule has 14.5 minutes between the two points, so there's your extra ten minutes:

 

[Mike395]

We had a remarkably clear run on the two track section - especially considering we’d lost our original path - which helped us reduce the delay into Euston to 10 minutes.

Got to say I do like the LSL MK3s - a very comfortable journey (with retrofitted power sockets so I could do some work en route too).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A lot of the timings on RTT are interpolated or made up timings, between official WTT timing points.
So Tring - Bourne End - Watford Junction are the only actual WTT timing points.
It's good that RTT fills in the blanks, as it were, it's helpful, but the extra time has probably been apportioned across a number of interpolated timing points because it's "really" only between the official timing points. There will be a total of 10 minutes added by the next official timing point, Watford Junction, it hasn’t disappeared.

EDIT It's normally 4 minutes or a bit more between Bourne End and Watford Junction, but this 1Z90 schedule has 14.5 minutes between the two points, so there's your extra ten minutes:

Thanks for the explanation - it all makes sense now!
It was a good run after the Kidsgrove delay - maybe the delay actually helped pathing overall.

 

[OvergroundMatt]

We had a remarkably clear run on the two track section - especially considering we’d lost our original path - which helped us reduce the delay into Euston to 10 minutes.

Got to say I do like the LSL MK3s - a very comfortable journey (with retrofitted power sockets so I could do some work en route too).

Yes - if we’d been only a few minutes earlier at Tring we would have slipped ahead of the stopping service and arrived on time!

I agree - the stock has been sensitively restored to an extremely high standard. Great on-board service too, including a fully stocked buffet complete with retro sandwiches!

And as was said earlier, the Network Rail / Avanti crowd control at Lime Street was remarkably efficient. All in all, an excellent end to a great week that Liverpool should be very proud of!

 

[HST43257]

I was very near the 86 and was speaking to staff on the service at the time of the Kidsgrove situation. They reckoned they were right on the edge of the neutral section. I’m led to believe that we slowed to a stop for some lazy signalling (not helped by Kidsgrove approach control) but given we retained the road across the tracks at Kidsgrove we managed to hold up a Manchester-bound Pendolino. There seemed to be much debate as to whether rolling back some distance was a viable option, seemingly not in the knowledge that a 350 was a block or two behind. The recovery was very good (until, of course, we got stuck behind a 2B stopper on the double track). Plenty of people just missed the northbound Pendolino to make the 1844(?) Cl47 relief from Man Pic, forcing the prospect of a 0 minute connection by taking the hour later service.

 

[Watershed]

I was very near the 86 and was speaking to staff on the service at the time of the Kidsgrove situation. They reckoned they were right on the edge of the neutral section. I’m led to believe that we slowed to a stop for some lazy signalling (not helped by Kidsgrove approach control) but given we retained the road across the tracks at Kidsgrove we managed to hold up a Manchester-bound Pendolino. There seemed to be much debate as to whether rolling back some distance was a viable option, seemingly not in the knowledge that a 350 was a block or two behind. The recovery was very good (until, of course, we got stuck behind a 2B stopper on the double track). Plenty of people just missed the northbound Pendolino to make the 1844(?) Cl47 relief from Man Pic, forcing the prospect of a 0 minute connection by taking the hour later service.

There is only approach control to Kidsgrove if the warner route is set, to allow for a conflicting movement to/from the Macclesfield direction.