Livery under Great British Railways

[Meerkat]

But again, brand damage wouldn't be a problem with proper management and joined-up-thinking with clear goals. If services that are running on the Northern network are performing abysmally, the solution isn't to break up the brand so the InterCity services don't get tarnished images, the solution is to sort out the services so they aren't performing abysmally.

But in the real world there is always going to be a worst service and a best one.

Strictly speaking these kind of services don't have to be differently branded. GBR could choose to do it like SNCF or Trenitalia where different services have different liveries

So if they have a different livery why not a different brand?

 

[vuzzeho]

I think the government will rebrand operators as they join GBR just to make it clear they've changed something. I think it'll be based on service type, like in mainland Europe. It seems to be the most logical decision. Also, the original GBR white paper mentioned unified branding across services. In my view, keeping the unusually fragmented branding would be confusing and make very little sense, especially because a lot of these brands (Northern, SWR, Southern, etc) aren't compelling at all, so wouldn't really be missed by the wider public.

 

[Sorcerer]

But in the real world there is always going to be a worst service and a best one.

Arguably, but the aim should still be providing the basic needs, that being an efficient and reliable railway service and infrastructure at an affordable cost. InterCity services can have some premium amenities such as buffet services and first class facilities, but as far as service types go I think they should be designations rather than brands.

So if they have a different livery why not a different brand?

For some a livery would be a better way of differentiating the services (InterCity, Regional, Metro etc.) while still under the brand of Great British Railways so passengers know who they're travelling with and who they can turn to when they need assistance. This was how BR used to do it with sectorisation. For what it's worth I would still rather have a single livery for the whole operator. I once again point to SBB as an example we should follow (broken record I know).

 

[renegademaster]

You could make the livery look like the ticket stock, I've always liked the National Rail orange as a colour


One thing I hope GBR doesn't start doing is taking a lesson from provincial bus operators and sticking a route map and other promotional branding on the livery

 

[generalnerd]

You could make the livery look like the ticket stock, I've always liked the National Rail orange as a colour
View attachment 174181

One thing I hope GBR doesn't start doing is taking a lesson from provincial bus operators and sticking a route map and other promotional branding on the livery

That’s looks cool! Would be a nice livery, and is visable so it can appear on older stock

 

[Meerkat]

You could make the livery look like the ticket stock, I've always liked the National Rail orange as a colour
View attachment 174181

One thing I hope GBR doesn't start doing is taking a lesson from provincial bus operators and sticking a route map and other promotional branding on the livery

Might be unpopular in parts of Glasgow!

 

[renegademaster]

Might be unpopular in parts of Glasgow!

It's already in Glasgow!

 

[Rick1984]

Strathclyde "Red"

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I think the government will rebrand operators as they join GBR just to make it clear they've changed something. I think it'll be based on service type, like in mainland Europe. It seems to be the most logical decision. Also, the original GBR white paper mentioned unified branding across services. In my view, keeping the unusually fragmented branding would be confusing and make very little sense, especially because a lot of these brands (Northern, SWR, Southern, etc) aren't compelling at all, so wouldn't really be missed by the wider public.

I suspect you're right on the first point, at least as far as England is concerned. Scotrail and TfW will probably stay for political reasons as will the Merseyrail and T&W Metro branding on services that run on NR metals. Other than that it will probably be GBR, possibly with sub-headings for Intercity and the like.

 

[generalnerd]

I suspect you're right on the first point, at least as far as England is concerned. Scotrail and TfW will probably stay for political reasons as will the Merseyrail and T&W Metro branding on services that run on NR metals. Other than that it will probably be GBR, possibly with sub-headings for Intercity and the like.

I don’t think the T&W metro is even counted as part of the national network and won’t be put under GBR.

 

[michael8]

You could make the livery look like the ticket stock, I've always liked the National Rail orange as a colour
View attachment 174181

One thing I hope GBR doesn't start doing is taking a lesson from provincial bus operators and sticking a route map and other promotional branding on the livery

Wow, orange and white actually looks amazing. Very 90s TGV. Really good (did you use AI?). I wonder if this could be a new intercity or inter-regional service.. I like it !

 

[Sun Chariot]

It's already in Glasgow!

With 1980s phenomenon "Max Headroom" driving it.

 

[azOOOOOma]

You could make the livery look like the ticket stock, I've always liked the National Rail orange as a colour
View attachment 174181

One thing I hope GBR doesn't start doing is taking a lesson from provincial bus operators and sticking a route map and other promotional branding on the livery

Yes please! That looks amazing!

 

[JohnElliott]

Along the same lines as London buses all being red, and given how well dark green works on the GWR IEPs, just paint everything British Racing Green.

 

[Meerkat]

Along the same lines as London buses all being red, and given how well dark green works on the GWR IEPs, just paint everything British Racing Green.

The Green looks pretty miserable on a 165/6 on a dull day.

 

[Mike Machin]

You could make the livery look like the ticket stock, I've always liked the National Rail orange as a colour
View attachment 174181

One thing I hope GBR doesn't start doing is taking a lesson from provincial bus operators and sticking a route map and other promotional branding on the livery

easyTrain!

 

[Mr. SW]

just paint everything British Racing Green.

GWR green is too dark and too blue. It's obviously based on historical "real" GWR locomotive green, but it's been paired with silver-grey as an accent making the overall appearance cold and ground colour dull.

By all means use the dark green but use warm accent colours to brighten it.

The "real" GWR enlivened the ground colour with orange, vermillion, Indian red, polished brass and copper. You don't have to go this far but the yellow panel on the train front does liven the colour up but it's very restricted.

 

[Diedinium]

Well since we're on the topic of concept liveries here's one I made back in 2021 - just imagine it with "GBR" instead of British Rail though, as back then I for some reason thought GBR would use British Rail as its name.

I took inspiration from a quote the BR logo designer said; where he had proposals to use the double arrow logo everywhere on rolling stock, but that idea wasn't ultimately adopted.

 

[Lknowles78]

It may have already been said but why are CrossCountry being allowed to paint their refurbished trains in their new livery when in 2 years time it will be disbanded. Surely a missed opportunity ?

 

[JamesT]

It may have already been said but why are CrossCountry being allowed to paint their refurbished trains in their new livery when in 2 years time it will be disbanded. Surely a missed opportunity ?

Because there isn't anything else yet to paint them in? Even when GBR finally exists it won't be an instant job to paint all the existing stock. Meanwhile it avoids confusion that passengers getting on an XC train look for the one painted like the other XC trains.

 

[Lknowles78]

Because there isn't anything else yet to paint them in? Even when GBR finally exists it won't be an instant job to paint all the existing stock. Meanwhile it avoids confusion that passengers getting on an XC train look for the one painted like the other XC trains.

So what happens under nationalisation? People will be looking for the GBR coloured to but an CrossCountry coloured one turns up because it was only painted a year ago. Or what about those waiting elsewhere waiting for a GBR service and a Thameslink train appears because it hasn’t been painted yet?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So what happens under nationalisation? People will be looking for the GBR coloured to but an CrossCountry coloured one turns up because it was only painted a year ago. Or what about those waiting elsewhere waiting for a GBR service and a Thameslink train appears because it hasn’t been painted yet?

It doesn't matter, because unless it's Grand Central or Lumo or you're in Wales/Scotland it's GBR.

 

[Transilien]

So what happens under nationalisation? People will be looking for the GBR coloured to but an CrossCountry coloured one turns up because it was only painted a year ago. Or what about those waiting elsewhere waiting for a GBR service and a Thameslink train appears because it hasn’t been painted yet?

Every single rebrand of an operator has to have a period where the branding isn’t consistent. It’s like saying people get confused when a class 455 appears in South West Trains livery despite that operator not existing since 2017.

The average passenger probably doesn’t even care what colour their train is as long as it doesn’t look a mess.

 

[Sun Chariot]

So what happens under nationalisation? People will be looking for the GBR coloured to but an CrossCountry coloured one turns up because it was only painted a year ago.

Realistically, people will use the departure screen information / announcements.
In the 1980s, I didn't see travellers confused at the instances when another sector's carriage(s) appeared in the consist.

 

[renegademaster]

One of the reasons I think that they shouldn't push regional branding is that the trains look shoddy when inevitably units will get shuffled around operators . Like what's happening with the trains Southern just got from Great Northern, with the Southern logo stickered inelegantly over where the GN one was.

Yes , people will be able to find their way regardless but it helps contributes to the managed decline look everything gives off currently

 

[Sorcerer]

It may have already been said but why are CrossCountry being allowed to paint their refurbished trains in their new livery when in 2 years time it will be disbanded. Surely a missed opportunity ?

I would go one step further and ask why anyone would be allowed to paint their refurbished trains in such a ghastly new livery.

So what happens under nationalisation? People will be looking for the GBR coloured to but an CrossCountry coloured one turns up because it was only painted a year ago. Or what about those waiting elsewhere waiting for a GBR service and a Thameslink train appears because it hasn’t been painted yet?

I expect the departure boards and information screens will provide more clarity to passengers. But any potential confusion due to different coloured trains is part of why I think a unified GBR livery would be helpful because there won't be any doubt whose running which train. Announcements can step in for moments of ambiguity such as interchange stations or stations with open-access operators and such.

 

[Mike Machin]

It's now such a very long time since we had a consistent corporate identity across the whole network, you would need to be at least in your late forties/early fifties to remember it. People have become used to particular services having a particular branding, even if that branding only registers with them superficially. I was travelling from Havant to Brighton in September and a Waterloo bound service arrived just before the Brighton train and one of the two woman immediately in front of me asked her friend if this was their service to which her friend replied, 'no, we need a green one.'

To save the huge expense of going through yet another cycle of years of re-branding (in my area it took around five years for the SWR brand to become firmly established), I feel the GBR should the holding company and for now at least, we should keep things largely as they are. After all, it's quite possible that we'll have another government in four years time and they may well decide that the railways should go back to being run by the private sector contractors again.

 

[WAB]

It's now such a very long time since we had a consistent corporate identity across the whole network, you would need to be at least in your late forties/early fifties to remember it. People have become used to particular services having a particular branding, even if that branding only registers with them superficially. I was travelling from Havant to Brighton in September and a Waterloo bound service arrived just before the Brighton train and one of the two woman immediately in front of me asked her friend if this was their service to which her friend replied, 'no, we need a green one.'

To save the huge expense of going through yet another cycle of years of re-branding (in my area it took around five years for the SWR brand to become firmly established), I feel the GBR should the holding company and for now at least, we should keep things largely as they are. After all, it's quite possible that we'll have another government in four years time and they may well decide that the railways should go back to being run by the private sector contractors again.

Yes - the 'tap and go' restrictions in South Wales are often described as "not green trains".

 

[Mike Machin]

Just to add to my recent post, as long as the new GBR Rail Alphabet and double arrow logo is used, together with a small tagline somewhere _ I think that's all that needs to be done - for now at least. One only has to look at France, where SNCF has a plethora of liveries applied to its trains on various routs, yet everyone knows it's SNCF. I think some of the existing titles could be simplified, for example 'South Western Railway' could just be simplified to just 'South Western' and 'Avanti' is pretty meaningless to most people. Maybe the key principal routes could be re-named Inter-City Great western, Inter-City North Eastern, Inter-City North Western and Inter-City East Midlands but for now just a name change but keeping the existing branding?

 

[generalnerd]

Just to add to my recent post, as long as the new GBR Rail Alphabet and double arrow logo is used, together with a small tagline somewhere _ I think that's all that needs to be done - for now at least. One only has to look at France, where SNCF has a plethora of liveries applied to its trains on various routs, yet everyone knows it's SNCF. I think some of the existing titles could be simplified, for example 'South Western Railway' could just be simplified to just 'South Western' and 'Avanti' is pretty meaningless to most people. Maybe the key principal routes could be re-named Inter-City Great western, Inter-City North Eastern, Inter-City North Western and Inter-City East Midlands but for now just a name change but keeping the existing branding?

On the intercity branding, I think we could see something like that, but maybe ‘Intercity East Coast’ ‘Intercity West Coast’ Intercity Midlands’ ‘Intercity SouthWest’ and ‘Intercity National’ for cross country services. I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw a ‘high speed’ or ‘Intercity High-Speed’ brand as well.

I think we’ll only see this if the intercity lines have specific ticketing and reservations, which I can almost guarantee they will have.

As I’ve said before we’ll probably have an ‘Express’ branding for semi-fast regional trains, like TPE currently runs.

You’d probably have similar branding, just different text on the trains and maybe variants on the logo so that a simple sticker can cover the stock transfers.