Livery under Great British Railways

[61653 HTAFC]

I find it very odd the way British people have a disdain for the country's flag and its colours. Would any Italian object, I wonder, to the flag featuring prominently on the Frecciarossa livery?

I think you could do something tasteful by taking the LNER livery and changing the thin grey stripe under the red window band to dark blue, though. You could perhaps do a reversed version (blue window band, thin red stripe) for regional express services or similar.

You only have to look at how certain elements react when they see the flags being flown. Remember that Labour MP who created a bit of a storm in a teacup over her reaction to a flag in a window while she was out campaigning for votes?

Slapping a union flag motif on the side of trains would be a bit garish and ostentatious though. A livery inspired by the colours of the flag could be nice, but I'm not sure you'd be able to come up with anything that looked better than Network South East. The design of the Union flag itself doesn't lend itself to liveries, so you'd be better off just using the colours... but you may end up with something that looked like the Dutch flag... or (perish the thought) the French tricolore!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Slapping a union flag motif on the side of trains would be a bit garish and ostentatious though. A livery inspired by the colours of the flag could be nice, but I'm not sure you'd be able to come up with anything that looked better than Network South East.

TBH I think the original Chiltern livery looks better than NSE. Or as I've said before, the LNER one with the grey stripe blue instead.

 

[Class450/4DES]

TBH I think the original Chiltern livery looks better than NSE.

At least I am not the only one who has noticed that. The new livery does a bit too.

 

[contrex]

I find it very odd the way British people have a disdain for the country's flag and its colours. Would any Italian object, I wonder, to the flag featuring prominently on the Frecciarossa livery?

It's not the same. Nor the French tricolor. I have a profound 'disdain' (I could choose a stronger word) for nationalists who wave the Union Flag around, and even more for St George's Cross merchants. Flag fetishism is another last refuge of scoundrels.

 

[Topological]

Spending as much time with GWR as I do means that the block colour has grown on me.

Previously, I favoured something like the Stagecoach liveries that could be permed for different service types (white for fast, blue for regional and red for commuter in the Stagecoach case).

Working from a strong dark blue would be good. The pale blue gives accessible doors and the yellow still works. BR did blue, but I am thinking something darker than BR blue.

 

[43096]

Spending as much time with GWR as I do means that the block colour has grown on me.

Previously, I favoured something like the Stagecoach liveries that could be permed for different service types (white for fast, blue for regional and red for commuter in the Stagecoach case).

Working from a strong dark blue would be good. The pale blue gives accessible doors and the yellow still works. BR did blue, but I am thinking something darker than BR blue.

I'd start from the livery Chiltern are using on the 168s going through refurbishment currently (link to a photo below), but change the light blue stripes for red.

168003

168003, Marylebone, 17th December 2024.

www.flickr.com

 

[Class450/4DES]

I'd start from the livery Chiltern are using on the 168s going through refurbishment currently (link to a photo below), but change the light blue stripes for red.

Basically a modern NSE Toothpaste?

 

[ScottGallagher]

I'd start from the livery Chiltern are using on the 168s going through refurbishment currently (link to a photo below), but change the light blue stripes for red.

168003

168003, Marylebone, 17th December 2024.

www.flickr.com

That looks really nice , it also to me has a vibe of a modernised Regional Railways livery that could have been

 

[Russel]

That looks really nice , it also to me has a vibe of a modernised Regional Railways livery that could have been

Never picked up on the similarity to Regional Railways but you're right!

 

[sprunt]

I find it very odd the way British people have a disdain for the country's flag and its colours. Would any Italian object, I wonder, to the flag featuring prominently on the Frecciarossa livery?

Have Italian politicians resorted en masse to wrapping themselves in the flag in lieu of having coherent policies? That would be my concern about flags on the livery, that the politicians would point at them and suggest that they've made everything fine.

 

[Topological]

Have Italian politicians resorted en masse to wrapping themselves in the flag in lieu of having coherent policies? That would be my concern about flags on the livery, that the politicians would point at them and suggest that they've made everything fine.

I could see a great photo opportunity for Kier with the interior of a Northern 150 and a South West Railway 701.

To be honest it is as much of a negative for politicians to be associated with the railways. I cannot ever imagine a politician pointing at the railways and saying everything is fine. They are more likely to talk up the reasons why the railway is not fine.

Interestingly, most of the suggestions (like the Chiltern) mirror the old Conservative branding in blue/red/white balance:

 

[Archie810]

Two images of class 800 in a GBR mock up livery to stimulate debate.

looks ai generated to me, look at the GBR text

 

[Meerkat]

It's not the same. Nor the French tricolor. I have a profound 'disdain' (I could choose a stronger word) for nationalists who wave the Union Flag around, and even more for St George's Cross merchants. Flag fetishism is another last refuge of scoundrels.

Why do you assume anyone waving a flag is someone nasty?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why do you assume anyone waving a flag is someone nasty?

It's a real British oddity, that. The Canadian flag is being waved all over the place at the moment and no such connotation is being attached to that.

 

[generalnerd]

It's not the same. Nor the French tricolor. I have a profound 'disdain' (I could choose a stronger word) for nationalists who wave the Union Flag around, and even more for St George's Cross merchants. Flag fetishism is another last refuge of scoundrels.

It’s not often the Union Jack being flown around, I often find it’s the St George’s cross. Caused chaos as well, the train station was closed so we had to be taxied from Doncaster to hull.

EDIT: I should clarify I don’t disagree with being patriotic, it’s just that these group rioted and raided loads of shops and verbally harassed one of my friends

 

[contrex]

Why do you assume anyone waving a flag is someone nasty?

I wrote 'nationalists' and 'St George's cross merchants'. I mean right-wing 'anti-woke' Little Englanders. I don't like that sort of person. Farage and his crew.

 

[Meerkat]

I wrote 'nationalists' and 'St George's cross merchants'. I mean right-wing 'anti-woke' Little Englanders. I don't like that sort of person. Farage and his crew.

So you brand anyone waving a flag as nasty.
The obvious solution is to reclaim the flag and fly it more widely, using the colours on trains etc.
Not sure how you apply it to trains but the flag livery on the government planes looks fantastic (apart from the little ones whose rear engines mess it up)

 

[Russel]

I wrote 'nationalists' and 'St George's cross merchants'. I mean right-wing 'anti-woke' Little Englanders. I don't like that sort of person. Farage and his crew.

Sad how the St George's Cross has become associated with this sort of thing.

 

[contrex]

So you brand anyone waving a flag as nasty.
The obvious solution is to reclaim the flag and fly it more widely, using the colours on trains etc.
Not sure how you apply it to trains but the flag livery on the government planes looks fantastic (apart from the little ones whose rear engines mess it up)

Why fly the flag more than any other piece of coloured cloth? If I view it purely as a piece of design, I find it unsatisfactory in many ways. Too gaudy for one thing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why fly the flag more than any other piece of coloured cloth?

To identify with your country. Nothing wrong with a bit of patriotism. It's bizarre how some British people are so vehemently opposed to liking where you live and wanting the best for it and those in it.

(Worth noting that patriotism and nationalism are not the same thing - patriotism is a good thing, nationalism is a bad thing, by and large)

Do people here have a strong dislike for the British Airways livery? I quite like it myself - includes the flag (well, an adaptation of it) but tastefully.

 

[m79900]

To identify with your country. Nothing wrong with a bit of patriotism. It's bizarre how some British people are so vehemently opposed to liking where you live and wanting the best for it and those in it.

(Worth noting that patriotism and nationalism are not the same thing - patriotism is a good thing, nationalism is a bad thing, by and large)

Do people here have a strong dislike for the British Airways livery? I quite like it myself - includes the flag (well, an adaptation of it) but tastefully.

Agree completely.
Also I liked the old BA livery (I believe it's called Negus) but the new one looks a bit cheap. The way its wavy with the lighter bits to represent different lighting just looks faded.

 

[contrex]

I really got a great feeling from this flag, and I was very sad to have that taken away.

 

[JamesT]

I really got a great feeling from this flag, and I was very sad to have that taken away.

View attachment 173934

That flag hasn’t been taken away. We are still members of the Council of Europe.

 

[Recessio]

looks ai generated to me, look at the GBR text

That's because it is, it's an AI generated mockup that Pete_UK created as a potential idea to spawn a discussion

 

[Archie810]

I personally think as cool as it would be to see some variation of the old BR liveries it might be somewhat counterproductive. The idea behind GBR is to overhaul and bring rail into the future, reviving identities from BR would look like a step backwards in a way. GBR should in my opinion at least be its own original thing.

I don't think liveries derived from the Union flag would be the best personally. If you look at nationalised rail brands in other countries, DB, SNCF, Renfe, JR, SBB, they don't really bare any resemblance to their country, they are their own identity.

 

[Meerkat]

I really got a great feeling from this flag, and I was very sad to have that taken away.

View attachment 173934

So it’s not really about flags, just people that disagree with you.
If it’s nationalised with a nationwide livery it really should be in national colours, demonstrating that it belongs to the people. Though I would prefer to keep regional liveries for the same reason.

 

[generalnerd]

I think something that would look nice could be the flag appearing at the joins between coaches (on longer trains) like seen on the virgin trains pendolino sets just before Avanti came in

 

[L+Y]

At this point, is it even clear that there will be any kind of unified GBR brand at all, or are we more likely to be in a world of, eg, "Northern by GBR".

 

[43066]

At this point, is it even clear that there will be any kind of unified GBR brand at all, or are we more likely to be in a world of, eg, "Northern by GBR".

In a word, “no”.

I can see the attraction of that approach, actually, as it will save a fortune on rebranding, especially as it seems likely that we will end up with “business units” that shadow the former TOCs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In a word, “no”.

I can see the attraction of that approach, actually, as it will save a fortune on rebranding. It seems likely that we will end up with “business units” that shadow the former TOCs.

That's a sensible place to start (basically move all the TOCs into DOR but leave them as they are, and make basic policy-type changes like ticket interavailability in disruption as has already been done for the DOR TOCs). But if we don't then move onto consolidation of functions, we don't get much saving.

Trying to do it "big bang" is likely to go wrong.