Livery under Great British Railways

[Wivenswold]

Looks like Southern's livery could make it to its 25th birthday on 22/10/26 at this rate. A truly astonishing amount of time for a rail operator's standard livery to be "current".
Possibly some kind of record for UK mainline multiple units. Possibly worth a thread elsewhere.

 

[Tobberz]

Looks like Southern's livery could make it to its 25th birthday on 22/10/26 at this rate. A truly astonishing amount of time for a rail operator's standard livery to be "current".
Possibly some kind of record for UK mainline multiple units. Possibly worth a thread elsewhere.

Indeed - probably due to its simplicity & timelessness. Both contemporary and traditional. One hopes the new BR Livery designers will look to it for pointers.

 

[Class15]

Southern is a fantastic livery that has aged really well. Hope it stays!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Southern is a fantastic livery that has aged really well. Hope it stays!

The logo may be one they want to get rid of, though, as I believe the roundel requires licensing from TfL, which I doubt comes free of charge.

I was surprised, to be honest, given this, that when GTR came in they didn't replace it with a green version of the "riband" that was used for Thameslink and Great Northern (but now only the latter).

 

[Transilien]

The logo may be one they want to get rid of, though, as I believe the roundel requires licensing from TfL, which I doubt comes free of charge.

The logo looks a bit out of date to me

 

[Bletchleyite]

The logo looks a bit out of date to me

It's deliberately out of date - it's a version of the original.

 

[Zomboid]

The Southern scheme looks to me like a reasonable interpretation of what might have happened had the SR continued to exist into the 21st century.

A bit like GWR, actually. I thought that the 57 that they painted up in GWR steam colours with the lining and stuff looked rubbish, but what they've got now seems like a reasonable "if the GWR had continued to today" kind of look.

 

[Transilien]

It's deliberately out of date - it's a version of the original.

Yes, I never really appreciated logos that harken back to a perceived "golden era" of the railways. Controversial I know!

 

[Class15]

The Southern scheme looks to me like a reasonable interpretation of what might have happened had the SR continued to exist into the 21st century.

A bit like GWR, actually. I thought that the 57 that they painted up in GWR steam colours with the lining and stuff looked rubbish, but what they've got now seems like a reasonable "if the GWR had continued to today" kind of look.

This. The 57 (604) is trying a bit too hard to look like the ‘old’ GWR. The others look way more fresh.

 

[vuzzeho]

Interestingly enough, the Southern logo did change, actually. In 2017, it changed from the yellow text to the white text, with all the other colours being changed too, and a slight drop shadow being added.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Interestingly enough, the Southern logo did change, actually. In 2017, it changed from the yellow text to the white text, with all the other colours being changed too, and a slight drop shadow being added.

Southern really have to pay TFL a licence fee for that? I'd understand if it was red white and blue.

 

[Tester]

Southern really have to pay TFL a licence fee for that? I'd understand if it was red white and blue.

I think of it as inspired by the pre-totem Southern station nameboards, which are surely a different kettle of fish!

 

[skyhigh]

I've heard on here that people at Northern are being told to prepare for the new brand launch or something.

There may be a minor change coming such as another change of logo but nothing major. A uniform order has just been placed for a top-up, i.e. more of the same, for delivery next Spring.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Southern really have to pay TFL a licence fee for that? I'd understand if it was red white and blue.

They certainly have to licence it. I don't recall where I read this, though, could have been on here somewhere.

No idea if a fee is involved or not.

 

[eldomtom2]

I don't recall where I read this, though, could have been on here somewhere.

The Southern logo is listed as a TfL trademark licensed to GTR on the UK government's website.

 

[Sealink]

In today's Guardian there an article mentioning the new GBR colour scheme. Red, white and blue.

Will be on the 0614 Waterloo Shepperton service on 25th May.

Will Labour’s shake-up really fix Great Britain’s ailing railways?

As South Western becomes the latest operator to be renationalised, there are questions about whether the changes will lead to lower fares

www.theguardian.com

I'd go with Regional Express. I'd also stipulate some criteria for such service. Catering including basic warm food, seat pitch and comfort, luggage provision, number of tables, minimum 5 car trains.
Local for commuter trains not under a PTE.

So for me:
High Speed, InterCity, Regional Express, Regional, Local/PTE brand.

Wait, not Alpha Line?

---------------


I am hoping against hope that catering will be reintroduced on South Western Railway.

But I've a feeling that ship has sailed... I mean that train has departed

 

[generalnerd]

I am hoping against hope that catering will be reintroduced on South Western Railway.

Did it have it previously?? Seems unnecessary for commuter journeys, but then again it does do some long old journeys on other parts

But I've a feeling that ship has sailed... I mean that train has departed

Heheh, very good

 

[Zomboid]

it have it previously?? Seems unnecessary for commuter journeys, but then again it does do some long old journeys on other parts

Certainly on the Weymouth and Exeter runs.
The 444s were built with a buffet counter, though I only ever saw it in use once, and that was to serve the offering from an adjacent trolley.

 

[ollyexe2808]

Did it have it previously?? Seems unnecessary for commuter journeys, but then again it does do some long old journeys on other parts

I would say absolutely for the Waterloo to Exeter route - at three hours it is a long slog down to the West Country!

 

[eldomtom2]

Will be on the 0614 Waterloo Shepperton service on 25th May.

I wouldn't place much stock in the bit about the 6.14 to Shepperton - that's just the first SWR out of Waterloo on a Sunday (if you ignore the late-night departures). I don't think the Guardian reporter has the details of what diagram 701046 is assigned to.

 

[Sealink]

Did it have it previously?? Seems unnecessary for commuter journeys, but then again it does do some long old journeys on other parts

Waterloo to Exeter
Waterloo to Weymouth

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't place much stock in the bit about the 6.14 to Shepperton - that's just the first SWR out of Waterloo on a Sunday (if you ignore the late-night departures). I don't think the Guardian reporter has the details of what diagram 701046 is assigned to.

The press will be told which service it will be on - what's the point otherwise? It's all about publicity, and they can't photograph and film it if they don't know where it is and when.

 

[Newbury]

I wouldn't place much stock in the bit about the 6.14 to Shepperton - that's just the first SWR out of Waterloo on a Sunday (if you ignore the late-night departures). I don't think the Guardian reporter has the details of what diagram 701046 is assigned to.

From RTT it seems 5B96 from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D late Saturday evening then forms the 6.14 on Sunday morning

 

[Stephen42]

The press will be told which service it will be on - what's the point otherwise? It's all about publicity, and they can't photograph and film it if they don't know where it is and when.

The press won't be expected to film it on the Sunday morning when it is in service, it's back in Wimbledon Park by 9am. It's as much so SWR can say that the train will be in service on Sunday.

It's slightly cheeky to run one additional service an hour before the usual first service to make that claim and then immediately put it back in a depot, but still an accurate statement.

 

[eldomtom2]

The press will be told which service it will be on - what's the point otherwise? It's all about publicity, and they can't photograph and film it if they don't know where it is and when.

Surely they'll be photographing and filming it at the press event? They don't need to know what service it's on, just where and when the press event is.
When is the press event, anyway? Someone in another thread said it was tomorrow - is that true?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

This article suggests there is a completely brand new livery that will eventually be the uniform look, BUT, quite cleverly, they’re not beginning the relivery process on TOCs (obviously bar this first one) until performance improves enough on them.

Train firms will need to 'earn the right' to carry nationalisation rebranding

The Government is set to mark an important milestone in rail renationalisation plans when South Western Railways is brought back into public ownership as a new-look design for trains is revealed

www.mirror.co.uk

Train firms need to 'earn the right' to carry Great British Railways rebranding

The Government is set to mark an important milestone in rail renationalisation plans when South Western Railways is brought back into public ownership as a new-look design for trains is revealed. Train firms being nationalised will be blocked from carrying new Great British Railways livery until they have come up-to-scratch, particularly on passenger standards, sources say. Ten train companies will be nationalised by the Labour government between now and October 2027 - beginning with South Western Railway this Sunday. However, it is understood none of the companies’ fleet of trains will be rebranded until they meet demanding standards. These are believed to cover improving punctuality, reducing cancellations, and making the passenger experience better, including seating. A government source said: “They need to earn the right to be called Great British Railways”.

 

[David M]

quite cleverly, they’re not beginning the relivery process on TOCs (obviously bar this first one) until performance improves enough on them.

Train firms will need to 'earn the right' to carry nationalisation rebranding

The Government is set to mark an important milestone in rail renationalisation plans when South Western Railways is brought back into public ownership as a new-look design for trains is revealed

www.mirror.co.uk

​

Seems messy rather than cleverly - they're either nationalised and get the new livery or they're not would seem a better route.
What if they never improve enough?

 

[Zomboid]

Seems messy rather than cleverly - they're either nationalised and get the new livery or they're not would seem a better route.
What if they never improve enough?

I suspect the goalposts will be flexible at some point, but I can see the sense of not wanting to tarnish the new brand but rushing it out with a rubbish service.

 

[Meerkat]

We might never get to see the full branding then!

 

[Mike Machin]

We might never get to see the full branding then!

Quite possibly. There will be a general election in 2029 at the latest, so unless it's all 'done and dusted' by then, it's quite possible that a new government could reverse the policy and we could working with a different set of policies.

Whatever happens, we will never return to a 'one colour fits all' look to our railways such as we had with BR in the 1970s and early 80s. Scotrail and TfW will keep their existing identities and we shall still have at least three open access operators. Charter trains will continue to run in a multitude of liveries old and new and the various freight operators will also retain their own branding so, whatever decision is taken, the railway will continue to be a kaleidoscope of colour.