Llangollen Railway appoints receivers

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kje7812

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Can the railway operate without those coaches?
Yes, there are a number of others in either the trust's or private hands. It would limit the extent of service possible and/or increase the wear and tear on the remaining coaches.
The engineering equipment on sale may also limit the ability to maintain the locos and rolling stock if sold on.
 

Ianigsy

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Could be quite an attractive proposition for a line with a few Mark 1s in the restoration queue- sell them to the scrap man and replace them with operational carriages.
 

paul1609

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Could be quite an attractive proposition for a line with a few Mark 1s in the restoration queue- sell them to the scrap man and replace them with operational carriages.
It depends to be honest. Most mk1s in service will have had a lot of work done on them since BR days now. Unless the Llangollen have comprehensive maintenance records that they are sharing with buyers you might be better off sticking with what you already own. Having said that If they actually come to market Id expect buyers to come forward at the minimum bid prices. Any displaced mk1s especially tsos would have a further buyers before a scrapman became involved.
 

30907

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Having said that If they actually come to market Id expect buyers to come forward at the minimum bid prices. Any displaced mk1s especially tsos would have a further buyers before a scrapman became involved.
I would expect the BSK to go too - to a line wanting to create a wheelchair- accessible coach, as having the double doors ready-made is a good start!
 

seagull

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Railway Trust ‘delighted’ as they announce deal completed with administrators of Llangollen Railway PLC

"The future of the historic Llangollen Railway has been secured.

It has been announced today that the joint administrators of Llangollen Railway Plc have sold the business and certain assets to Llangollen Railway Trust Limited for an undisclosed amount “ensuring a new future” for one of north Wales’ most popular leisure attractions.

Alan Coleman, one of the joint administrators together with Jason Elliot at Cowgills said: “The sale has secured the future of this superb heritage railway which is a key attraction to the local area and has provided the best outcome for creditors.

“We always try and achieve the best outcome financially for the business and to preserve as many jobs as possible and we are extremely pleased to be able to ensure the future of this much loved local attraction.”"
 

reddragon

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"We have been very encouraged and gratified by all the support received in our fundraising efforts and thank everyone who has contributed. Including promises, funds raised to date are approximately £85,000.

"This should enable us to submit a competitive bid in the auction on 12 May for key items, such as at least one carriage with accessible adaptation, function coach, road railer, telehandler and 12t crane.

"Looking ahead to the preparation for re-opening phase, £100,000 approximately is needed to cover necessary overheads, for which we hope to attract at least some grant funding. It remains too soon to speculate when re-opening might be but we are targeting the end of July or early August currently.

Now we have a reason to help, here is their fundraising page!

 

6Gman

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This was surely the likeliest outcome all along? The Trust buys the core "business" for essentially a nominal sum while the receivers sell off the assets with a broader value in order to placate the creditors.

Railway reopens with a slimmed-down asset base. Creditors take a hit, but not a total loss.
 

Bletchleyite

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This was surely the likeliest outcome all along? The Trust buys the core "business" for essentially a nominal sum while the receivers sell off the assets with a broader value in order to placate the creditors.

Railway reopens with a slimmed-down asset base. Creditors take a hit, but not a total loss.

Question is what next? I guess the Trust will need to set up a new operating company (even if it's a limited company rather than a plc) otherwise the risk is of a repeat that wrecks the whole thing.
 

BayPaul

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Question is what next? I guess the Trust will need to set up a new operating company (even if it's a limited company rather than a plc) otherwise the risk is of a repeat that wrecks the whole thing.
Though I would expect the trust will need to give 'parent company guarantee' type agreements for any future borrowing the newco Ltd company may want to do, so they are unlikely to be able to shield themselves so well in the future.
 

Brush 4

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Do they know the cause of the problem because if they don't, history may repeat itself.
 

simonw

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Do they know the cause of the problem because if they don't, history may repeat itself.
It was mainly caused by failures in the contract engineering side, leading to large financial losses not in operating trains.
 

35B

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Though I would expect the trust will need to give 'parent company guarantee' type agreements for any future borrowing the newco Ltd company may want to do, so they are unlikely to be able to shield themselves so well in the future.
That presumes that they have the asset backing to support such guarantees - and that they or the potential counterparties wish to go to those lengths.
 

John Luxton

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Interview on Facebook with the Chairman of the Llangollen Railway Trust - conducted by the Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party has appeared on Facebook making comparisons between the help given to English Heritage lines during Covid and that given to lines in Wales. (13) Facebook
 

6Gman

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Interview on Facebook with the Chairman of the Llangollen Railway Trust - conducted by the Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party has appeared on Facebook making comparisons between the help given to English Heritage lines during Covid and that given to lines in Wales. (13) Facebook
Not sure that being linked to a political party is terribly wise.
 

WesternLancer

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Not sure that being linked to a political party is terribly wise.
Indeed - esp if a risk that that party is not going to win (and thus have their hands on the purse strings...). Tho being interviewed is one thing, not the same as being overtly linked, but better to politely turn down the interview offer and steer clear IMHO.
 

John Luxton

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Indeed - esp if a risk that that party is not going to win (and thus have their hands on the purse strings...). Tho being interviewed is one thing, not the same as being overtly linked, but better to politely turn down the interview offer and steer clear IMHO.

I seem to recall George Osborne being filmed at Boston Lodge and it appearing at least on BBC Wales during the EU Remain Campaign. Though given Welsh Independence is quite a political hot potato - perhaps it could have ramifications being seen to be allying oneself with the Unionist agenda. Though in saying that the current Welsh Government has treated the leisure / hospitality industry shabbily during the pandemic as well as trying to lock people down tighter. So perhaps people might be more sympathetic to Abolish? Living the other side of the border but close enough to be a very regular visitor to Wales I watch Welsh politics with interest.
 

WesternLancer

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I seem to recall George Osborne being filmed at Boston Lodge and it appearing at least on BBC Wales during the EU Remain Campaign. Though given Welsh Independence is quite a political hot potato - perhaps it could have ramifications being seen to be allying oneself with the Unionist agenda. Though in saying that the current Welsh Government has treated the leisure / hospitality industry shabbily during the pandemic as well as trying to lock people down tighter. So perhaps people might be more sympathetic to Abolish? Living the other side of the border but close enough to be a very regular visitor to Wales I watch Welsh politics with interest.
Thanks for your insights, interesting to read that point of view.
 

35B

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I seem to recall George Osborne being filmed at Boston Lodge and it appearing at least on BBC Wales during the EU Remain Campaign. Though given Welsh Independence is quite a political hot potato - perhaps it could have ramifications being seen to be allying oneself with the Unionist agenda. Though in saying that the current Welsh Government has treated the leisure / hospitality industry shabbily during the pandemic as well as trying to lock people down tighter. So perhaps people might be more sympathetic to Abolish? Living the other side of the border but close enough to be a very regular visitor to Wales I watch Welsh politics with interest.
I still have my doubts, especially where connected to a new single issue party formed out of the fallout from Tory/UKIP dissension in the Senedd over the last few years. People are often judged by their associates; that is a judgement that IMHO the Llangollen could do without.
 
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Not sure that being linked to a political party is terribly wise.
Being linked to *that* party in particular is a very bad idea.

Being part of a video which suggests that Welsh devolution is irredeemably flawed and ought to be abolished because the methods for bailing out preserved railways is inferior might be seen as just a little bit of an overreaction

It could be a politically naïve chairman, nothing he said was that bad on it's own, but siding or cooperating with fringe parties is never a good thing for business confidence. Something I imagine they might not have very much of to squander.
 

michael74

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Kettledrum

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With hindsight, was it a mistake to set up a structure whereby the operating company owned the rolling stock? If volunteers had raised funds to buy the stock in the first place and given their time to restore or convert the rolling stock, they might not have expected to put their hand in their pockets years later to have to buy back the stock.

Would it have been better all round, if a charitable trust had retained ownership of the rolling stock?
 

6Gman

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Being linked to *that* party in particular is a very bad idea.

Being part of a video which suggests that Welsh devolution is irredeemably flawed and ought to be abolished because the methods for bailing out preserved railways is inferior might be seen as just a little bit of an overreaction

It could be a politically naïve chairman, nothing he said was that bad on it's own, but siding or cooperating with fringe parties is never a good thing for business confidence. Something I imagine they might not have very much of to squander.
Indeed, and the Trust may well find itself negotiating with the Welsh administration and the local County Council in the future. The Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party are unlikely to be influential on either!

One wonders what purpose the chairman thought this would serve? It's not as though Drakeford is going to change anything on the back of such a video.
 

37114

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With hindsight, was it a mistake to set up a structure whereby the operating company owned the rolling stock? If volunteers had raised funds to buy the stock in the first place and given their time to restore or convert the rolling stock, they might not have expected to put their hand in their pockets years later to have to buy back the stock.

Would it have been better all round, if a charitable trust had retained ownership of the rolling stock?
I agree but the problem is if the company had no assets it would have been unable to raise any cash/capital to fund the company investments (eg the engineering machinery). Also they would have a really poor credit rating for any potential creditors doing a financial checks. This can be got round by a parental guarantee but this sort of arrangement would need to be underwritten by someone with cash/assets and brings you back to the problem that they want to avoid.
 

kje7812

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The Spa Valley have announced that they have acquired RMB 1864. Some previous comments elsewhere suggested they had offered £30k for it.
This actually leaves the Llangollen without a buffet as Thompson Buffet 1706 will be moving to Embassy shortly (if it hasn't ready).
 

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