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LMS 10000 - The Ivatt Diesel Re-creation Society

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AHoseason

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Good News:

Engineer Paul Etherington has managed to obtain a large 10 tonne self supporting lifting beam that comes complete with geared beam trolley, 10 tonne blocks and heavy duty nylon wheels suitable for use on concrete load bearing surfaces.

This will enable the Society to strip down 58022 without the need for any crane, splitting the heads from the engine as well as the alternator. We await discussions with Peak Rail to confirm arrangements going forward.
 
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NightStar

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This project is really intriguing to me. I realize only one of the twins can be recreated due to a lack of another set of bogies. 1600HP is not much more than what a EMD F7 passenger diesel would have and they were used for many tasks from freight to passenger and commuter trains.

I will admit this project has always given me hope in my dream of wanting to rebuild GT3 the only mostly successful turbine loco. Sadly I just live on the wrong side of the pond and am probably getting too old for these dreams.

Robert
 

silverfoxcc

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Of my remaining notes (and oh how I wish I'd kept them all), I have recorded 10001 on shed at Willesden on 23/3/1963. I can well remember them both growling past South Kenton with The Royal Scot,:'( but how I longed for a Duchess or Princess even though I had copped them all :lol:
Great memories.

Poolie

Having spent most of my Saturday's youth in the late 50's schlepping between the various main line stations in Lodnon. i well remember the twins arriving on the Scot. IIRC correctly they also used the southern ones DH on it as well.Except one Sat all three came in on one service as one of them had failed. I cannot say for certain if it was the Scot, but it was about that time of day
 

AHoseason

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Poolie

Having spent most of my Saturday's youth in the late 50's schlepping between the various main line stations in Lodnon. i well remember the twins arriving on the Scot. IIRC correctly they also used the southern ones DH on it as well.Except one Sat all three came in on one service as one of them had failed. I cannot say for certain if it was the Scot, but it was about that time of day

We are collecting people's memories of the Twns. Would you be willing to write a paragraph or two about your recollections please? If so, it can be sent to [email protected]. Thanks. Andrew
 

AHoseason

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This project is really intriguing to me. I realize only one of the twins can be recreated due to a lack of another set of bogies. 1600HP is not much more than what a EMD F7 passenger diesel would have and they were used for many tasks from freight to passenger and commuter trains.

I will admit this project has always given me hope in my dream of wanting to rebuild GT3 the only mostly successful turbine loco. Sadly I just live on the wrong side of the pond and am probably getting too old for these dreams.

Robert

We are fortunate in that the correct model 16SVT engine exists, without which the project would not have been possible. A similar pattern set of bogies also exist and we are fundraising to buy and restore them. https://lms10000.co.uk/lets-buy-the-bogies
Sadly so many of the early prototypes have gone forever without opportunity to recreate.
 

NightStar

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Are you guys going for a as close as possible type rebuild or somewhere in the middle? Have you had any luck procuring the correct type of generator?

Robert
 

AHoseason

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Are you guys going for a as close as possible type rebuild or somewhere in the middle? Have you had any luck procuring the correct type of generator?

Robert

Hello Robert, I've asked the engineers to comment since I am not an engineering kind of person! I will post back when I get a reply. Andrew
 

AHoseason

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Today I enjoyed a morning at the new build G5 project's unit in Shildon. Pics on our Facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/LMS10000
Ideally we would like a similar unit in the Midlands to restore components and invite supporters. www.G5loco.co.uk
While there I was introduced to Gemma Braithwaite of the P2 Steam Locomotive Company, to whom I am grateful for her insights and encouragement. It's always good to get input from established groups.

Andrew
 

AHoseason

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Are you guys going for a as close as possible type rebuild or somewhere in the middle? Have you had any luck procuring the correct type of generator?

Robert

The original type of generator is only extant in Australia and the chances of procuring one and shipping it home are slim and very expensive. A similar machine is still widely used in the UK EE 811 which are found in class 37 and 40s dimensional similar but a slightly higher rated machine with an excellent reliability record, availability etc etc.

Best Regards

Paul
 

NightStar

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Paul, I gotcha ya. Not impossible though considering over here they have been slowly obtaining parts for the reconstruction of SP9010. http://sp9010.ncry.org/ They just got some key components from Germany mainly the main drive shafts. I do wish they could get parts to make the other truck operational but the gearbox had been torched off. Also one engine is non usable due to water damage and only half of the other engine is operating due to damage to the other bank. Really could use two rebuilt diesels to drop in her.

Robert
 

AHoseason

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We have received an email back from the EM2 Loco Society with an asking price of £18,250 for the bogies. They weigh 25 tons each and IDRS may recoup some of the purchase price by weighing in unwanted parts currently attached to the bogies.
The EM2LS is also a charity and their trustees are obliged to realise a suitable price for any assets disposed of.

The price quoted to us is more than we calculate they're worth. We have £6k in the bank.
An Extraordinary general meeting of the charity is to be called so that members might be informed of Trustees' recommendations and then move forward.

Comments about this announcement are of course welcome but please keep it polite and on topic. Trustess are unable to discuss technical options and alternatives on this thread.

Andrew
open
 

Malcmal

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We have received an email back from the EM2 Loco Society with an asking price of £18,250 for the bogies. They weigh 25 tons each and IDRS may recoup some of the purchase price by weighing in unwanted parts currently attached to the bogies.
The EM2LS is also a charity and their trustees are obliged to realise a suitable price for any assets disposed of.

The price quoted to us is more than we calculate they're worth. We have £6k in the bank.
An Extraordinary general meeting of the charity is to be called so that members might be informed of Trustees' recommendations and then move forward.

open

Firstly, just because someone asks for £xyz - it doesn't mean this is the final price!! Have you actually gone into negotiations over this as I don't see any mention of it. I am sure the EM2 society are desperate for funds like everyone else and if a decent offer of say £12k went on the table it would get them thinking at the very least.

Secondly, and this is my un-expert opinion, but trying to make a project like this happen with £6k in the bank sounds like pure fantasy. My feelings would be to shelve the whole thing unless you can get some real financial backing.

I do support and admire the general thinking behind this whole plan and wish you guys well but I just don't see how this could be reality on such a shoestring budget. However this is only my 2p's worth ;)
 

Flying Phil

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Malcmal makes a valid point, but I suspect most railway (and other) preservation projects exist with far too little in the bank.....but somehow funds keep coming and projects do get completed.....eventually!
So keep up the good work AHoseason and the other supporters.
 

AHoseason

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Malcmal makes a valid point, but I suspect most railway (and other) preservation projects exist with far too little in the bank.....but somehow funds keep coming and projects do get completed.....eventually!
So keep up the good work AHoseason and the other supporters.

Thanks. The heritage world relies on a fair degree of innocence and hope. After all Leonard Heath-Humphries was the inspiration needed to get the Festiniog Railway reborn and that was mainly because he "didn't realise it couldn't be done" - everyone else knew it was an impossible job
 

Cowley

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Malcmal makes a valid point, but I suspect most railway (and other) preservation projects exist with far too little in the bank.....but somehow funds keep coming and projects do get completed.....eventually!
So keep up the good work AHoseason and the other supporters.
Spot on Phil.
What I do agree with Malcmal on though is that this is just an opening bid.
Things are worth what someone is willing to pay for. Either the EM2 society want (need) to keep them for the future, or they’re hoping to gain some cash for their own cause...
Hopefully there’s a deal to be done somewhere, as there can’t be too many people looking for a set of EM2 bogies* on eBay this evening can there?

(* 12” to the foot scale that is.)
 

pdeaves

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As others have suggested, haggle. Also, you could increase the value of a financial bid by offering something 'in kind' as well. I can't think of a good real example but something along the lines of "we offer £10,000 and we'll throw in this driving cab seat as well". What have you got that the EM2 people may want?
 

AHoseason

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Our new promotional video can be viewed by clicking on the link below. Our thanks to Alan Taylor for putting it all together, and to Mel Harwood for his excellent voiceover and presentation.

 

AHoseason

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98 year old Stan Fletcher is President of the Ivatt Diesel Re-creation Society. Between 1947 and 1983 he was a commissioning engineer with English Electric, later part of GEC. His role included being part of the team at Derby that built and tested the London Midland & Scottish Railway’s D16/1 design diesel loco 10000 and its twin 10001. When he first became involved 10000 was a frame minus wheels. His job entailed travelling behind the Twins during their first 150,000 miles on the Midland and West Coast main lines. This included initial runs from Derby down the Matlock line that is now Peak Rail. During October Stan was at Rowsley on Peak Rail to take part in filming for a future Society video and sign a Royal Scot booklet dating from 1949.

On the 1st of June 1949 the Twins hauled their first Royal Scot train from London to Glasgow. A BBC video about it can be found below. Stan is the younger of the two engineers climbing aboard the train at the start of the video.


The Royal Scot was a prestige express on which businessmen and celebrities often travelled. Stan recalls seeing actress Dorothy Lamour travelling behind 10000. However his eyes did not linger on the rich and famous since when the Twins were running well there were regular checks to be made and notes to be taken during every trip, particularly the temperatures of exhaust and water systems on each cylinder and turbo.

Stan recalls that the Twins’ first Royal Scot was a particularly heavy train, including three carriages full of VIPs. During that run staff from the railway company took VIP passengers up to the lead loco in groups of 4 people at a time, walking through the connecting nose end doors of both locos. It was very noisy within each engine compartment and ear defenders were unheard of. While passing the first three cabs the opportunity was taken to explain all the controls, but during their visit to the foremost driving cab the VIPs were not permitted to speak or otherwise distract the driver.

Stan recalls that during the outward run to Glasgow a problem developed on the journey toward Glasgow. The errant part was a feeder pipe to an air reservoir for pneumatic contacts. This impacted the transfer of power from the generator to the traction motors. As a result one of the Twins was unable to contribute traction for a period. Luckily this was not during one of the heavily graded sections of track. So, for a time, one loco was pulling the heavy train plus its dead twin. The pipe was temporarily repaired using chewing gum and tourniquets, with a coat placed casually over it so the VIPs wouldn’t see it. Fortunately they were able to do this repair while the LMS’ guides were having their coffee break, so no VIPs passed during the repair work. A proper repair was carried out overnight and they took the precaution of improving the feed connection on the other loco to prevent a recurrence.

The Society recently obtained a copy of British Railways' handbook of this initial diesel-hauled Royal Scot run, which Stan duly signed during his visit to Rowsley, appropriately sitting in a NRM-owned LMS carriage. The booklet is marked as the copy handed to T.F.B. Simpson, Works Superintendent at Derby from 1947.

In January 2019 Stan is launching a fundraising campaign to raise £100,000 in time for his 100th birthday (March 2020) to raise capital with which to buy components from locomotives which are soon to be withdrawn from mainline service. He will be attending the Society AGM on the 23rd of March 2019 at 1pm in the Aston Court Hotel in Derby and will be available to talk with members and visitors.
 

AHoseason

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The LMS10000 project is looking for a off-railway building in 'the midlands/north of England'

Spec: 65 foot long (min) from doorway to wall. 30 foot width. 18 foot height.

Cost: Free would be great (as a charity we have to say that!). Sponsorship possible.

Contact: [email protected]
 

Cowley

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Excellent news. A huge step forward for the project, well done to all involved.
 

AHoseason

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LMS10000 - Flash Fundraising Campaign - update
Thanks to our generous supporters we raised £5675 which will be used to transport the recently purchased bogies, assess them and begin work on their restoration.
Many thanks to everyone.
 
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AHoseason

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This week we are launching our largest fundraising endeavour to make the re-created 10000 a reality.

We need a variety of parts from English Electric designs, particularly classes 20 and 37. Everything from a generator to door handles! When such parts are put up for sale there will not be time to raise the money. We must have it in advance. Stan Fletcher, who was the commissioning engineer on 10000 in 1947-50 and now our President, is fronting the appeal to raise the required funds.

Follow the link below to read his story and his personal appeal to the railway enthusiast community. https://lms10000.co.uk/presidents-appeal
 

AHoseason

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Trustees spent the morning looking at a 16SVT engine that we hope to acquire soon. We have also been given a huge box of original engine tools, in the original box, on indefinite loan, together with the original paperwork from English Electric relating to 4 power units

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