Really? Seems unusual on a line as busy as the ECML to have shorter trains? In addition, is it worth training every single station on dispatch of MK4 sets again for 1 train a day?
I have been told it’s needed as the TT is written for Azuma performance which 2+9 Mk4s cannot meet
Five car Azumas to Leeds and Harrogate say hello.
Are they seriously dumb enough to write an entire timetable that a small but significant proportion of their fleet can't keep to with their current length?
The timings are being rewritten for the acceleration and braking of Azuma.
1+10 surely?
Right, but why do it for every service when they know that some of their fleet can’t match it?
It’s not a good idea though. Looks like more capacity cuts are on their way to LNER’s West Yorkshire services then.
Unusual, but not actually unexpected, because shortening 6 Mk4 sets to give similar performance to an 800/1 has been in the various ECML track access applications since about 2015/16. Originally it was said they’d be used on fast Edinburgh services.
Cause if they didn’t shorten the Mk4s to match timings of Azuma, there would not be the space in the timetable for the Mk4s
A bit unnecessarily pernickety, as yes the DVT is technically another MK4 carriage, but what was clearly meant was 9 passenger carriages plus two other vehicles.
What's your suggestion? Abolish those services completely? Or perhaps withdraw the IC225 sets entirety and use five car Azuma sets on their own? That would cover the work?
It's impossible for me to tell what and where on the route the issues caused by the inferior performance are given that the entire December 2025 ECML timetable and unit diagrams aren't publicly available yet, but it just seems odd that there isn't at least one train per hour from West Yorkshire to London that is pathed for a full length or even 8 carriage IC225.
Kind of inevitable that thought isn't it? Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds and Manchester Airport / Manchester Piccadilly - Leeds are slower now than in 2015. The Greenwich line and a few other Southeastern Metro stations receive a less frequent service than then. Manchester - London, Nottingham - London and Liverpool - London are all several minutes slower typically than they were then. Peak services between London and Brighton or London and Dorking or London and Shoeburyness all slower. Brigg (Saturdays) or Gainsborough - Sheffield, with express Sheffield - Lincoln abandoned. Reading - Birmingham, Reading - Southampton, York - Doncaster - Sheffield, several services missing. Newcastle - Glasgow nearly all the direct services gone. And so on and so forth. Loads of people have had their journeys short changed compared to 6-10 years ago and that's quite deliberate. The current government has continued this policy.
Only two stations - York and Newcastle. They already run London to Doncaster on their way to Leeds. Or am I misinterpreting?
Technically, resumption of testing; they ran at least one into Leeds in 2020 during the daytime, which I spotted from my garret north of the river. One Standard and one First coach missing from the set.
Not York, they go there now, but surely Darlington and Durham?
Durham and Darlington as well wouldn’t it? As this will be the Kings Cross to Newcastle stopper service? (Unless I’m mistaken)
Part of why Newcastle-glasgow direct service is worse is because the Edinburgh-Glasgow queen street service is much improved.
How is it 'much improved'? It's been reduced to half-hourly instead of quarter-hourly off-peak except Saturdays.
The previous post mentioned 2015 as a baseline; I'm guessing it was every 15 minutes in 2019, but was that the case in 2015?
It had been every 15 mins since the higher frequency was launched in September 1999, with extensions to the period of time the 15 min frequency was available over the years. Eventually it was every 15 mins 0630-1930 IIRC.
That would be true if performance in these areas were actually better. It's not...
The KX-Newcastle hourly stoppers call at Northallerton as well.
Indeed, with a handful of additionals being put in later. A 1945 in both directions in, perhaps, 2019?
I think worrying about the station staff doing dispatch is a little bit of a red herring.
Yes, in 2019 seems it was 0630 - 1945 the 15 min frequency applied including Saturdays.
Short term pain - it means once the new CAF Class 897 units arrive in 2027 they can be used, performance wise, as a single fleet with the Azumas, without attempting another re-write to accelerate the slower path kept for IC225s. Plus if the whole timetable is on standard timings it means in disruption a IC225 can be used on an Azuma diagram without performance impacts. One of the First Class coaches will obviously be going and the IC225s have excess First Class capacity compared to a 9-car Azuma, so it's managing the loss of a Standard Class coach as well where the impact comes. Also, if some of the current 5-car Azuma services become 7-car IC225 services then that's actually an uplift in capacity!
I remain to be convinced that losing 70 tons will make much difference. They will still pull away from a stand much more slowly. I'd rather keep the extra 100+ seats.
Ah fair enough. I thought it was now every 15 minutes and quicker.
Obviously the LNER fleet engineers and performance team feel and know differently.
It's actually slower. The peak extra services call at stations they previously didn't between Croy and Glasgow.
It doesn't have to perform exactly the same as an 801 to be worthwhile. It only has to perform to a timing load that allows it avoid a clash. Half-minutes slower here and there can be tolerated. Three minutes may cause a clash that's fatal to that entire long-haul service.
I thought they only ran Leeds-London now?
Fair points. It would depend on which service they ran in the new timetable. I need to get north of York a bit more often
