LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment

[Intercity91]

It was in response to a suggestion of having two 91s in the consist should one fail. I agree there's no point.


The 91 would have to be attached to the DVT, the DVT acting as a translator vehicle. The only vehicles in a Mark 4 set that a 91 can couple directly to are Coach B and the DVT. It's easier to replace the DVT with the spare DVT.

To add a bit more to this… the DVT can’t be removed from a MK4 set in passenger service for several reasons not least as it has fundamental door control and interlock equipment.

There have been occasions in past (and I’m going back to GNER days where odd formations really occurred last) where 91’s have been run around in passenger service and dragged the set from the DVT. This was usually to get sets back south when allocated to Bounds Green.

I’ve also known a set run around for a day with a 91 at each end (one in its normal position at coach B and the other on top of the DVT), this was due to a DVT fault and there was no swappable DVT and an acute set shortage. At no point we’re both 91’s powering, when the set arrived at its terminating point the leading 91 was shut down/isolated and rear one livened up.

 

[800001]

91119 is moving tomorrow, as 0Z91 Neville Hill to Doncaster Wabtec, possibly in connection with the reliveried Mk4s?

 

[DanNCL]

91119 is moving tomorrow, as 0Z91 Neville Hill to Doncaster Wabtec, possibly in connection with the reliveried Mk4s?

No return path showing so if it is connected to the reliveried Mark 4s it’s unlikely it’ll be bringing them back the same day.

 

[Rhydgaled]

To add a bit more to this… the DVT can’t be removed from a MK4 set in passenger service for several reasons not least as it has fundamental door control and interlock equipment.

There have been occasions in past (and I’m going back to GNER days where odd formations really occurred last) where 91’s have been run around in passenger service and dragged the set from the DVT. This was usually to get sets back south when allocated to Bounds Green.

I’ve also known a set run around for a day with a 91 at each end (one in its normal position at coach B and the other on top of the DVT), this was due to a DVT fault and there was no swappable DVT and an acute set shortage. At no point we’re both 91’s powering, when the set arrived at its terminating point the leading 91 was shut down/isolated and rear one livened up.

Interesting. I've also read that there were overnight tests with two 91s (both with pantographs raised) in conjunction with the IEP but don't think I've ever seen pictures (presumably it wasn't photographed because it was dark at the time). Did those test runs for IEP actually happen, were both 91s powering and was the DVT replaced by a second TSOE or was the 2nd 91 attached to the DVT as in your last example (with a single 91 powering)?

 

[43301]

Interesting. I've also read that there were overnight tests with two 91s (both with pantographs raised) in conjunction with the IEP but don't think I've ever seen pictures (presumably it wasn't photographed because it was dark at the time). Did those test runs for IEP actually happen, were both 91s powering and was the DVT replaced by a second TSOE or was the 2nd 91 attached to the DVT as in your last example (with a single 91 powering)?

Definitely saw pictures at the time. From memory it was a reduced-length set. Can't recall whether it had a DVT or two TSOEs.

 

[DanNCL]

91119 moved to Doncaster Wabtec yesterday. It’s there for the same work as 91124 has recently had there.

 

[43 302]

91119 moved to Doncaster Wabtec yesterday. It’s there for the same work as 91124 has recently had there.

Which would be what exactly?

 

[DanNCL]

Which would be what exactly?

Don’t know I’m afraid, simply quoting what I’ve heard.

 

[800001]

Which would be what exactly?

An exam. Don’t know which level.

 

[Fishnchipsrule]

I think too many liveries would confuse the general passenger public.

I can see the InterCity livery working, and maybe a nod to GNER, but the National Express, East Coast and Virgin liveries wouldn't be too good for them as the train would be announced as "LNER" and the train pulls in is NatX livery. Plus I think that the NatX, EC and Virgin liveries would be copyright of the respective owners and trademarks. The InterCity livery is owned by the Government and the GNER one is from a defunct company (Sea Containers) so don't think they'd be any infringement there.

I believe the rights to the GNER branding are now actually in the hands of an individual who bought them from Arriva.

 

[Fuzzytop]

Three Mk4s donated to the fire college at Moreton in Marsh:

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1514175828099321859

13 now left for disposal. Think there is enough to form one almost-complete set, minus coach K.

 

[skyhigh]

I believe the rights to the GNER branding are now actually in the hands of an individual who bought them from Arriva.

How did Arriva get hold of it?

 

[43301]

How did Arriva get hold of it?

Presumably bought it from whoever owned it following the break-up of Sea Containers.

 

[DanNCL]

How did Arriva get hold of it?

Presumably bought it from whoever owned it following the break-up of Sea Containers.

Branding rights purchased by Alliance for their failed open access bid, passed on to Arriva. They also own rights to the name ‘GNWR’ using the same styling.

 

[PeterWeir]

very intersting

 

[Fuzzytop]

Actually, those 13 on the Eversholt list are now disposal only. Weren't they up for lease in the last one.

Presumably not in the greatest of conditions with being in storage so long.

Closest thing to confirming that LNER are no longer taking a ninth set, and these coaches will instead be going for scrap in due course.

 

[Fishnchipsrule]

Branding rights purchased by Alliance for their failed open access bid, passed on to Arriva. They also own rights to the name ‘GNWR’ using the same styling.

This person now owns the GNER branding rights: https://twitter.com/Jo_Reggelt?t=auqYfuO6Vyg-VRzMOp6RZg&s=09

 

[StephenHunter]

Any news on this purported new livery?

 

[365 Networker]

Any news on this purported new livery?

I've found another picture and it does appear that the window band is in the same shade of red as the Azuma rather than the traditional black:-

https://twitter.com/LocoSpottingNW/status/1512551750443667462/photo/1

 

[tubeuser]

Good afternoon members. Could anyone kindly tell me the Saturday diagrams from Kings Cross to York?

 

[Fuzzytop]

Good afternoon members. Could anyone kindly tell me the Saturday diagrams from Kings Cross to York?

The 225 Group website has these, see page 2 for Saturday:

https://225group.org.uk/operations

One set runs the 0440 from York, and then spends the rest of the day running services to and from Leeds, and another set does the 0906 and 1506 from London, and returns 1202 and 1802 from York.

Engineering works excepted of course, and most days only four sets seem to be out rather than the booked five.

 

[DanNCL]

91111 is currently occupying Platform 1 at York light loco. It’s the wrong way round, blunt end at the buffer stops. Believed to be there for a commemoration of the York station bombings in WW2. It leaves York station to return to Neville Hill at 15:03.

 

[yoyothehobo]

91111 is currently occupying Platform 1 at York light loco. It’s the wrong way round, blunt end at the buffer stops. Believed to be there for a commemoration of the York station bombings in WW2. It leaves York station to return to Neville Hill at 15:03.

Thanks for this, i just saw it there and there was wondering what it was doing.

 

[Tracked]

Just been driving up the M18 past Hellaby Industrial Estate (Jnc 1), couldn't get a proper look but I'm sure at the top end - possibly in The Stockyard Truckstop, looking at Google Maps - was what looked like a railway carriage in the LNER livery in the car park. It was visible through the trees from the Motorway, but I only got a quick glimpse, just wondered if anyone on here would know if it was?

 

[Fuzzytop]

Just been driving up the M18 past Hellaby Industrial Estate (Jnc 1), couldn't get a proper look but I'm sure at the top end - possibly in The Stockyard Truckstop, looking at Google Maps - was what looked like a railway carriage in the LNER livery in the car park. It was visible through the trees from the Motorway, but I only got a quick glimpse, just wondered if anyone on here would know if it was?

Four coaches were apparently moved last week to the down yard at Worksop for roading out: numbers reported elsewhere as 11409, 11414, 12453, and one other not yet identified.

Two of them left on Tuesday for Booths, Rotherham.

At least 11409 left today. Not sure if the fourth coach went today as well - if not then pretty sure it's 11409 you'll have seen.

 

[Tracked]

Four coaches were apparently moved last week to the down yard at Worksop for roading out: numbers reported elsewhere as 11409, 11414, 12453, and one other not yet identified.

Two of them left on Tuesday for Booths, Rotherham.

At least 11409 left today. Not sure if the fourth coach went today as well - if not then pretty sure it's 11409 you'll have seen.

Thanks, thought it looked like one

 

[XCTurbostar]

Coming back to the LNER Mk4 livery: Do we know what MK4 set is being repainted and when this is expected back in traffic?

 

[800001]

Coming back to the LNER Mk4 livery: Do we know what MK4 set is being repainted and when this is expected back in traffic?

NL17 + 91124 and within a couple of weeks.

 

[urpert]

NL17 + 91124 and within a couple of weeks.

Was the conclusion that it’s just a one-off for a single set?

 

[43 302]

91124 is currently at Hitchin on 1A50! I assume it will be all for Mk4 sets. There was a post on Facebook that suggests they will be branded "LNER 225" trains.