LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment

[DanNCL]

Last I heard the plan was to swap it with 801216 at York. I believe this is the path for the 801 to York: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/87220/2021-01-05

There's also a York - Bounds Green path shortly afterwards, presumably for the 91 to return back south: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/87234/2021-01-05/detailed

 

[35B]

Last I heard the plan was to swap it with 801216 at York. I believe this is the path for the 801 to York: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/87220/2021-01-05

And then the 91 heads back on this: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/87234/2021-01-05/detailed

RTT showing the swap - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y11485/2021-01-05/detailed#allox_id=0.

 

[47827]

That's often the sort of thing sprung on passengers fairly late notice as set swaps are not overly popular when you are settled on a warm comfortable train in winter time. Potential practical issues regarding forward traincrew these days, but the bigger one being potentially stabling on EC, that's before the normal avoidance of using one on an Edinburgh train owing to lack of thunderbird on the North end of the ECML. The last such workings were early autumn just before the Newcastle and Edinburgh rescue options ended I think.

 

[ian94]

Just had the announcement that people have to change trains at York

 

[43367]

No 91's now north of York, mainly due to the fact that there are now no Newcastle or Edinburgh Thunderbirds, so if one runs into grief there is no rescue loco near by, unless there is the slightest chance there is a light loco or a loco on a frieght that can be commandeered, but I'd say the chances of that are slim, hence why they are confined to KX- Leeds/York runs, and in a few months the Edinburgh and Newcastle crews' knowledge of theme will have also lapsed

 

[IanXC]

I can't help but think platform 6 to platform 9 at York isn't as convenient a change as 1 to 3 at Doncaster (or even 4 to 8)...

 

[greyman42]

I can't help but think platform 6 to platform 9 at York isn't as convenient a change as 1 to 3 at Doncaster (or even 4 to 8)...

Especially for first class passengers.

 

[DB]

I can't help but think platform 6 to platform 9 at York isn't as convenient a change as 1 to 3 at Doncaster (or even 4 to 8)...

It's hardly difficult though - no requirement to use the bridge or underpass.

 

[35B]

It's hardly difficult though - no requirement to use the bridge or underpass.

But no comparison to the cross platform interchange between 5 & 6. And having done 9 & 6 from the London end of the train, it can be darn stressful with luggage.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

But no comparison to the cross platform interchange between 5 & 6. And having done 9 & 6 from the London end of the train, it can be darn stressful with luggage.

with the railway for legally permitted journeys only currently this pretty much excludes anyone with considerable amounts of luggage

 

[aar0]

I've just found an interesting Equinox episode on the railways and keeping to time, with a lengthy piece on the class 91 (or 'Electra' as it was known at the time) plus its development and manufacture, as well as a rather vampiric looking project director seen at Bounds Green...

That was fantastic! I will miss the 225s.

 

[35B]

with the railway for legally permitted journeys only currently this pretty much excludes anyone with considerable amounts of luggage

The time it happened to me, it was briefcase and one suitcase. It was still extremely stressful in the circumstances.

 

[SteveyBee131]

And any platform change at all is more stressful than a direct journey, which the journey that caused us to go so far on a tangent should have been.

However, we have gone rather off the intended topic of the thread

 

[91130nut]

There are a couple of paths this week in RTT which look like class 91 and stock running as far north as Newcastle. Are these convoluted moves to get sets to Neville Hill, does anyone know ? First path runs Bounds Green-KX-Newcastle-Doncaster-Neville Hill, second path same as far as Doncaster, then dragged to Belmont Yard.

Realtime Trains - 5Z09 0824½ Bounds Green T&R.S.M.D to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z09 0824 Bounds Green T&R.S.M.D to Belmont Down Yard | 15/01/2021

Real-time train running information for 5Z09 0824 departure from Bounds Green T&R.S.M.D to Belmont Down Yard on 15/01/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[swt_passenger]

There are a couple of paths this week in RTT which look like class 91 and stock running as far north as Newcastle. Are these convoluted moves to get sets to Neville Hill, does anyone know ? First path runs Bounds Green-KX-Newcastle-Doncaster-Neville Hill, second path same as far as Doncaster, then dragged to Belmont Yard.

Realtime Trains - 5Z09 0824½ Bounds Green T&R.S.M.D to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z09 0824 Bounds Green T&R.S.M.D to Belmont Down Yard | 15/01/2021

Real-time train running information for 5Z09 0824 departure from Bounds Green T&R.S.M.D to Belmont Down Yard on 15/01/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Seems ridiculous to me but could the Newcastle one be to turn the set, as it uses the high level bridge?

 

[Kieran1990]

Seems ridiculous to me but could the Newcastle one be to turn the set, as it uses the high level bridge?

Could be to allow the 91 to be at the Leeds end of Neville Hill to then run light to Donny for overhaul.
Imagine the MK4’s will be stored round the back of Neville or in the sidings at Cross Gates end of the depot

 

[91130nut]

Could be to allow the 91 to be at the Leeds end of Neville Hill to then run light to Donny for overhaul.
Imagine the MK4’s will be stored round the back of Neville or in the sidings at Cross Gates end of the depot

Aye, on both days they go round-the-bridges at Newcastle so the sets are being turned. There are booked stops at Peterborough and York on both runs. Perhaps crew changes, or some sort of LNER jolly ?

 

[heedfan]

Could be to allow the 91 to be at the Leeds end of Neville Hill to then run light to Donny for overhaul.
Imagine the MK4’s will be stored round the back of Neville or in the sidings at Cross Gates end of the depot

91s have run light from Neville Hill to Doncaster for years. The orientation of the set doesn't make a difference as there's a cab at both ends of the 91 so it can go off regardless of it's facing.

If the 91 did need to be turned then it could easily be done at the turntable at Neville Hill.

Any sets stored at Neville Hill will be kept in 1 or 2 group siding which are at the west end (Leeds end) of the depot. The sidings at the 'cross gates' end are CET roads and are kept clear for the overnight process, thought they are essentially just a shunt neck now as CET activities are carried out on the reception sidings.

 

[Kieran1990]

91s have run light from Neville Hill to Doncaster for years. The orientation of the set doesn't make a difference as there's a cab at both ends of the 91 so it can go off regardless of it's facing.


If the 91 did need to be turned then it could easily be done at the turntable at Neville Hill.

Any sets stored at Neville Hill will be kept in 1 or 2 group siding which are at the west end (Leeds end) of the depot. The sidings at the 'cross gates' end are CET roads and are kept clear for the overnight process, thought they are essentially just a shunt neck now as CET activities are carried out on the reception sidings.

Ahh I see- as they won’t be trapped persay on the buffer ends of group 1 or 2 sidings so I’m stumped as to why they are being turned.
Never new Neville Hill had a table to turn locos

 

[heedfan]

Ahh I see- as they won’t be trapped persay on the buffer ends of group 1 or 2 sidings so I’m stumped as to why they are being turned.
Never new Neville Hill had a table to turn locos

There are a couple of sidings which are used for pretty much permanent storage of old wagons - namely number 2 siding in 1 group (2 in 1) and sometimes 1 in 1. So you are right in the sense that putting a full 91 + Mk4 set in these roads could trap the 91 and would need some shunting to dig it out but not really a big job to be honest. Worth noting that 1 in 1 to 5 in 1 are unwired roads so a set going in there would have to be dragged. In reality any 91s stabled at Neville Hill would likely be kept under the wires if at all possible as they don't particularly like being off the wires for too long. West end slip at Neville Hill can fit three light 91s and is wired so I would expect some to be berthed there.

The table gets regular use for HST powercars and coaches but whether a 91 has ever been on it I couldn't say. I can't think of a reason as to why a 91 would need to be spun to be honest. The table is also unwired so it would be dragged with a class 08 shunting.

 

[43096]

Never new Neville Hill had a table to turn locos

It’s been an essential bit of kit for the last 42 years!

 

[DanNCL]

Today's 5Z09 Bounds Green - Neville Hill via Newcastle was 91107. The set was turned via the High Level Bridge as expected.

As 5Z09 was two hours late following a hold up in Yorkshire, I was fortunate enough to see it at Newcastle whilst on my way home from work this afternoon, and was able to get a couple of photos.

 

[Adam0984]

Been told that tonight is the last 91 hauled set into Leeds for the foreseeable future on the 1933 Kings Cross to Leeds

 

[swt_passenger]

Been told that tonight is the last 91 hauled set into Leeds for the foreseeable future on the 1933 Kings Cross to Leeds

That’s what was posted earlier this month, a page or so back; I think it’s old news?

 

[Adam0984]

That’s what was posted earlier this month, a page or so back; I think it’s old news?

Haha I didnt flick back just been told earlier by an Lner driver. I need to keep up

 

[DanNCL]

Been told that tonight is the last 91 hauled set into Leeds for the foreseeable future on the 1933 Kings Cross to LeedsYes

That’s what was posted earlier this month, a page or so back; I think it’s old news?

Yes, it's been known for quite a few weeks that today would be the last day for the foreseeable future.

Today's Class 91 allocations are as follows:

91105:
1Y00 04:40 York - Kings Cross (failed at New Southgate, hauled to Kings Cross by 67001), returned to service for 1D17 14:03 Kings Cross - Leeds, 1A41 16:45 Leeds - Kings Cross and 1D30 19:33 Kings Cross - Leeds

91124: (all workings for this set vice Azuma):
1A19 08:43 Bradford - Kings Cross (from Leeds), 1D14 12:33 Kings Cross - Leeds, 1A37 15:15 Leeds - Kings Cross and 1D26 18:03 Kings Cross - Skipton

91127:
5Z09 Bounds Green - Belmont Yard (Doncaster) via Newcastle

91130:
1A04 06:05 Leeds - Kings Cross, 1N81 09:06 Kings Cross - York, 1Y84 12:02 York - Kings Cross, 1N87 15:06 Kings Cross - York and 1Y90 18:02 York - Kings Cross

 

[Adam0984]

Oh well ill go back under my rock

 

[WesternLancer]

so is there liklihood of a rtn to service or is that a total unknown?

 

[Swimbar]

so is there liklihood of a rtn to service or is that a total unknown?

Presumably when Wabtec have done the work on the 91's and the Mk4 Coaches

 

[43055]

so is there liklihood of a rtn to service or is that a total unknown?

Presumably when Wabtec have done the work on the 91's and the Mk4 Coaches

The January Railway magazine says they will temporary withdrawn until June due to the reduced timetable including Werrington and Kings Cross engineering works with sets being stored at Doncaster and Leeds. Apparently the G exams at Doncaster will continue.