LNER compulsory reservations - what happens if you don’t have one?

[43096]

For next week it’s looking that way

The railway appears to have a death wish on itself - every day it makes decisions that make travel more and more difficult and much less pleasant. The whole thing is just commercial suicide.

 

[DB]

The railway appears to have a death wish on itself - every day it makes decisions that make travel more and more difficult and much less pleasant. The whole thing is just commercial suicide.

And if people get so sick of it that they buy a car, they won't be coming back to the railways any time soon.

 

[Ianno87]

The railway appears to have a death wish on itself - every day it makes decisions that make travel more and more difficult and much less pleasant. The whole thing is just commercial suicide.

Not necessarily so of the number of reservable seats significantly increases from Monday onwards. We don't want the XC situation where trains are showing "full" several days before when they are nowhere near in reality.

And if people get so sick of it that they buy a car, they won't be coming back to the railways any time soon.

Until road congestion becomes insufferable instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Road congestion is overtalked outside of cities. I've done extensive travel around the UK by car recently (as I don't like wearing a mask) and have very rarely encountered any serious delay.

 

[trainophile]

On GWR we are still being strongly requested to wear a mask, both by the train manager’s announcements and an automated announcement on departure from every station.

Very few people doing so, especially in this heatwave. I’m not, nor in shops, and I feel liberated again. They will have a battle to reinstate compulsory mask wearing on public transport.

 

[Ianno87]

Road congestion is overtalked outside of cities. I've done extensive travel around the UK by car recently (as I don't like wearing a mask) and have very rarely encountered any serious delay.

However, Rail's main market is.... to and from cities...

 

[Starmill]

I'm on one of LNER's trains from Doncaster to Leeds currently. It's formed of five coaches, I don't have a reservation and I'm standing up. The next service is in one hour.

Presumably the view of those who say that reservation ought to be compulsory is that I should have been asked to wait on the platform at Doncaster? Except for at the buffet where the catering staff are working there's at least one person standing in every doorway. There are a few passengers standing in First Class vestibules also, which implies they have Standard tickets because they haven't taken the small number of free seats in First.

Edit: In an update this train is now standing all the way down the aisle. Presumably the passengers who boarded at Wakefield Westgate should have all been told "sorry, full"?

 

[35B]

I'm on one of LNER's trains from Doncaster to Leeds currently. It's formed of five coaches, I don't have a reservation and I'm standing up. The next service is in one hour. Presumably the view of those who say that reservation ought to be compulsory is that I should have been asked to wait on the platform at Doncaster? Except for at the buffet where the catering staff are working there's at least one person standing in every doorway. There are a few passengers standing in First Class vestibules also, which implies they have Standard tickets because they haven't taken the small number of free seats in First.

In an update this train is now standing all the way down the aisle. Presumably the passengers who boarded at Wakefield Westgate should have all been told "sorry, full"?

Is that a short form or was it booked 5 car?

 

[Starmill]

Is that a short form or was it booked 5 car?

Not shown on journey check. So either it's not short formed or no message was put out.

 

[35B]

Not shown on journey check. So either it's not short formed or no message was put out.

in which case, it’s excellent demonstration of both why additional capacity is needed and why compulsory reservations are an inappropriate policy.

 

[DB]

It's the first weekend of the school holidays, restrictions have just been lifted and more people than usual will be remaining in this country. Doesn't take much foresight to see what train loadings are likely to be!

Are they short of operational units? Can't see any other justification for running single 5-car sets this weekend.

 

[Haywain]

Are they short of operational units?

Yes, and have been for months.

 

[DanNCL]

I'm on one of LNER's trains from Doncaster to Leeds currently. It's formed of five coaches, I don't have a reservation and I'm standing up. The next service is in one hour.

Presumably the view of those who say that reservation ought to be compulsory is that I should have been asked to wait on the platform at Doncaster? Except for at the buffet where the catering staff are working there's at least one person standing in every doorway. There are a few passengers standing in First Class vestibules also, which implies they have Standard tickets because they haven't taken the small number of free seats in First.

Edit: In an update this train is now standing all the way down the aisle. Presumably the passengers who boarded at Wakefield Westgate should have all been told "sorry, full"?

How angry the passengers would be with LNER if they knew LNER had chosen to send out that 5 car 80x on a busy service when they've got multiple working 91+Mark 4 sets sat doing nothing at Neville Hill...

LNER need to get their act together. Short forms are happening multiple times a day, have been happening daily ever since the 80xs were introduced (including during reduced lockdown timetables), and yet there's excuse after excuse for not properly utilising the Mark 4 fleet they've got.

 

[Haywain]

How angry the passengers would be with LNER if they knew LNER had chosen to send out that 5 car 80x on a busy service when they've got multiple working 91+Mark 4 sets sat doing nothing at Neville Hill...

LNER need to get their act together. Short forms are happening multiple times a day, have been happening daily ever since the 80xs were introduced (including during reduced lockdown timetables), and yet there's excuse after excuse for not properly utilising the Mark 4 fleet they've got.

I don’t know all the ins and outs of it but I am certain it’s nothing like as simple as you suggest. There are matters such as contracts with Hitachi and drivers traction knowledge that are likely to play major parts in which trains are put out, to say nothing of ‘pingdemic’.

 

[applepie2100]

I don’t know all the ins and outs of it but I am certain it’s nothing like as simple as you suggest. There are matters such as contracts with Hitachi and drivers traction knowledge that are likely to play major parts in which trains are put out, to say nothing of ‘pingdemic’.

I should imagine that the majority of passengers don't give a toss about railway bureaucracy and hundred odd different reasons given everything something is thrown into the "too difficult" basket. What they do care about is paying through the nose for a ticket when the company concerned seems to make very little effort to provide a reasonable standard of service. Time and again they're met with short formations, lack of information all the other things makes them believe that the railway sees them as nothing more than an inconvenience and to be frank, who can blame them for feeling that way?

 

[35B]

I should imagine that the majority of passengers don't give a toss about railway bureaucracy and hundred odd different reasons given everything something is thrown into the "too difficult" basket. What they do care about is paying through the nose for a ticket when the company concerned seems to make very little effort to provide a reasonable standard of service. Time and again they're met with short formations, lack of information all the other things makes them believe that the railway sees them as nothing more than an inconvenience and to be frank, who can blame them for feeling that way?

There’s the small matter, quite widely reported, of cracks in the class 80x units keeping units to be kept out of service and leading to short notice changes.

 

[DB]

There’s the small matter, quite widely reported, of cracks in the class 80x units keeping units to be kept out of service and leading to short notice changes.

All the more reason to get all the Mk4 sets which they are keeping back into service!

 

[DanNCL]

I don’t know all the ins and outs of it but I am certain it’s nothing like as simple as you suggest. There are matters such as contracts with Hitachi and drivers traction knowledge that are likely to play major parts in which trains are put out, to say nothing of ‘pingdemic’.

It’s all stuff that LNER could have sorted out by now if they were that bothered about it, they’ve had sufficient time, it’s not as if the cracks on the 80xs were only discovered yesterday. I know that traction knowledge for the 91s for all Newcastle and Edinburgh crews, as well as even some London crews has lapsed, but if that’s seriously limiting usage of the mark 4 fleet to two sets out of seven and leaving working sets idle whilst passengers suffer short forms then it’s time LNER got on with traction refreshers.

Whilst they’re doing said traction refreshers they can train their guards not to delay trains during dispatch for a ticket inspection that could be done after departure, as that held up the LNER service I was on yesterday. I won’t name the guard in question but will say it’s one regularly mentioned on this forum for the wrong reasons.

I should imagine that the majority of passengers don't give a toss about railway bureaucracy and hundred odd different reasons given everything something is thrown into the "too difficult" basket. What they do care about is paying through the nose for a ticket when the company concerned seems to make very little effort to provide a reasonable standard of service. Time and again they're met with short formations, lack of information all the other things makes them believe that the railway sees them as nothing more than an inconvenience and to be frank, who can blame them for feeling that way?

I fully agree. I try to look at these issues from both the passenger and railway side of the argument, but in this case all of the evidence suggests that this situation could have been handled considerably better and if they’d applied themselves to it they could have got more stock running. I have seen what seems like thousands of supposed reasons why the mark 4 fleet can’t be used more extensively, but I’m yet to see one that couldn’t be resolved in the medium term if LNER got their act together. I know several people that have abandoned LNER altogether in favour of the car because of the (now ditched) compulsory reservations and the frequent short formed trains.

All the more reason to get all the Mk4 sets which they are keeping back into service!

Indeed. There are seven Mark 4 sets and twelve 91s, it isn’t unreasonable to expect four of them in service each day, but at present it’s three if you’re lucky, more commonly it’s only two.

If the public knew this they’d be (understandably) incredibly angry with LNER.

(edit: corrected spelling)

 

[Wallsendmag]

It’s all stuff that LNER could have sorted out by now if they were that bothered about it, they’ve had sufficient time, it’s not as if the cracks on the 80xs were only discovered yesterday. I know that traction knowledge for the 91s for all Newcastle and Edinburgh crews, as well as even some London crews has lapsed, but if that’s seriously limiting usage of the mark 4 fleet to two sets out of seven and leaving working sets idle whilst passengers suffer short forms then it’s time LNER got on with traction refreshers.

Whilst they’re doing said traction refreshers they can train their guards not to delay trains during dispatch for a ticket inspection that could be done after departure, as that held up the LNER service I was on yesterday. I won’t name the guard in question but will say it’s one regularly mentioned on this forum for the wrong reasons.


I fully agree. I try to look at these issues from both the passenger and railway side of the argument, but in this case all of the evidence suggests that this situation could have been handled considerably better and if they’d applied themselves to it they could have got more stock running. I have seen what seems like thousands of supposed reasons why the mark 4 fleet can’t be used more extensively, but I’m yet to see one that couldn’t be resolved in the medium term if LNER got their act together. I know several people that have abandoned LNER altogether in favour of the car because of the (now ditched) compulsory reservations and the frequent short formed trains.


Indeed. There are seven Mark 4 sets and twelve 91s, it isn’t unreasonable to expect four of them in service each day, but at present it’s three if you’re lucky, more commonly it’s only two.

If the public knew this they’d be (understandably) incredibly angry with LNER.

(edit: corrected spelling)

 

[DanNCL]

That’s what us LNER customers think whenever we see excuses for short formed trains, being left behind at stations, being told to reserve a seat on a service several hours later just to get home during disruption, and being abandoned mid journey when the slightest thing goes wrong.

 

[Grumbler]

That’s what us LNER customers think whenever we see excuses for short formed trains, being left behind at stations, being told to reserve a seat on a service several hours later just to get home during disruption, and being abandoned mid journey when the slightest thing goes wrong.

I wonder if that's anything to do with the fact that LNER is run by the government?

 

[DanNCL]

I wonder if that's anything to do with the fact that LNER is run by the government?

Can’t help but think that myself too.

 

[43094]

There are not any spare MK4 sets sitting round at the moment - without going into detail, that isn’t the fault of LNER. If there were, and if they could be used to cover a shortfall, they would be.


That’s not to downplay the current situation, which certainly isn’t ideal (for customers and staff alike).

Those in LNER who are trying to use the available sets/units as best as possible each day are very aware of the customer impact, and try to mitigate it where possible - though accepting that won’t be much comfort to those travelling on a short-formed service.

 

[Taunton]

I'm off from London to Leeds next week for a first long distance business meeting since last year.

I guess I'll just drive. I can't make head or tail of what is actually needed, or being done on the day.

 

[Mainline421]

I'm off from London to Leeds next week for a first long distance business meeting since last year.

I guess I'll just drive. I can't make head or tail of what is actually needed, or being done on the day.

Nothing additional is needed, compulsory reservations have been abolished. It will be the same as pre-covid on the day now.

Although after a week LNER really should have removed the mandatory flag in the timetable feed, especially as this could make it hard to purchase a ticket from one their TVMs once the number of reservations available has been exceded.

 

[py_megapixel]

Nothing additional is needed, compulsory reservations have been abolished. It will be the same as pre-covid on the day now.

Yes. Even LNER's website agrees with you now:

Make a seat reservation

If you're traveling with LNER make sure you have a seat reservation with your ticket for a comfortable journey. Make one here if your ticket or pass doesn't already have one.

www.lner.co.uk

I have an open return ticket, do I need to reserve a seat with LNER?
A reservation is highly recommended for if you have an open return, but not necessary.

...
Are there any unreserved seats?

To ensure passengers who have a Flexible ticket or pass can still use that benefit and walk-up to board a train, there will be a number of unreserved seats in Coach C for Standard and a number of seats in Coach E or M in First Class, on all of our trains.

This means that if you don't have a seat reservation you'll still be able to travel in the unreserved part of the train.

Although after a week LNER really should have removed the mandatory flag in the timetable feed, especially as this could make it hard to purchase a ticket from one their TVMs once the number of reservations available has been exceded.

I agree, though I should point out that this problem is unique to their TVMs (and others with a journey planner). For example, at Kings Cross, the GTR TVMs will presumably quite happily sell you a ticket valid on a service that the LNER ones won't, because they don't care about what specific time you are travelling. Likewise with ScotRail TVMs (not Northern ones though, as they are also Flowbird machines with the journey planner, and also are all completely broken at the moment, but that's for another thread)

 

[Ianno87]

Nothing additional is needed, compulsory reservations have been abolished. It will be the same as pre-covid on the day now.

Although after a week LNER really should have removed the mandatory flag in the timetable feed, especially as this could make it hard to purchase a ticket from one their TVMs once the number of reservations available has been exceded.

The machines should at least say "there are no reservable seats left on this service, do you want to proceed?"

It does make sense to "sell out" the train on the website so passengers are less inclined to turn up to board a fully reserved service (but nothing to stop you turning up if you really want to). Passengers appreciate being told that Full trains are full, so can't complain."you've sold too many tickets!"

 

[DanNCL]

There are not any spare MK4 sets sitting round at the moment - without going into detail, that isn’t the fault of LNER. If there were, and if they could be used to cover a shortfall, they would be.


That’s not to downplay the current situation, which certainly isn’t ideal (for customers and staff alike).

Those in LNER who are trying to use the available sets/units as best as possible each day are very aware of the customer impact, and try to mitigate it where possible - though accepting that won’t be much comfort to those travelling on a short-formed service.

There’s the same number of mark 4 sets out of service per day most days now as what was booked to be the case in the pre-80x era, yet the fleet size has shrunk from 31 to 7. I can only assume this is down to the maintenance move to Neville Hill and the ongoing Wabtec overhauls, and therefore hope the situation will improve soon.
As I mentioned further above, 4 sets out of 7 in service each day wouldn’t be an unreasonable expectation, so I’d hope that behind the scenes work is ongoing to achieve that as soon as possible.

I do appreciate that those in control and on the front line have an incredibly difficult job on their hands and make the best of what they’ve got, but I can’t help feel management (and quite likely the DFT) are letting everyone down. If the issues were better communicated with the public by LNER there might be better understanding, as what the public currently see is short formed trains running, many of them standing room only, whilst several Mark 4 sets which to the public will look fine are seen doing nothing in the yard at Neville Hill.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does make sense to "sell out" the train on the website so passengers are less inclined to turn up to board a fully reserved service (but nothing to stop you turning up if you really want to). Passengers appreciate being told that Full trains are full, so can't complain."you've sold too many tickets!"

The trouble is that that may cause them to buy a higher priced ticket to get on board, e.g. First Class. That is arguably fraudulent if there are walk-up sales unless this is made very clear.

 

[Ianno87]

The trouble is that that may cause them to buy a higher priced ticket to get on board, e.g. First Class. That is arguably fraudulent if there are walk-up sales unless this is made very clear.

OK: "You may purchase this ticket without a reservation and use any available seat you can find". Or something like that.